OMG. It's ridiculous that someone who has zero affiliation (in any shape, form or fashion) with this school seems to care so much about what they do. If the mere mention of the word "Liberty" is such a trigger for you, maybe you should seek psychological counseling as you seriously have some sort of obsession and/or mental condition that needs attention.

Mods, please close this thread, it's about 45 pages past its usefulness.

(05-28-2017 08:46 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  OMG. It's ridiculous that someone who has zero affiliation (in any shape, form or fashion) with this school seems to care so much about what they do. If the mere mention of the word "Liberty" is such a trigger for you, maybe you should seek psychological counseling as you seriously have some sort of obsession and/or mental condition that needs attention.

Mods, please close this thread, it's about 45 pages past its usefulness.

No doubt. All of your post.

(05-27-2017 06:05 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 11:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 11:41 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 05:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Exactly, I get that you don't care. Or think that its fine to spend millions of dollars on one group's benefit only.

Youre right in one respect. Non-Christians and LGBT persons aren't missed by our Athletic Departments, as far as I can tell. Unless the millions we pay to prop up their department become imperiled by it.

If those kids started demanding an end to the student fees to subsidize games they don't go to.....Or if you need to raise the student fee and the students whose concerns and participation levels you dismiss say "2 grand a year for football - hell no", I'll bet you'd care.

Again, there are ways to make that required donation more palatable. I get that you don't see it as a problem, probably because it doesn't impact you or people like you.

Every time I hear someone complaining about athletic fees I ask what would happen to the fine arts programs if students who never attended demanded they stop having to pay those fees. The bottom line is fees aren't a la cart items. You don't get to pick and choose. Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head and makes them attend a certain school. You don't like the fees being charged at X university, pick another school. Tom, your constant railing against Liberty and Christians in general is very tiresome. We get it, you don't like either. Do everyone a favor and stick to discussing athletics and keep your personal agenda out of these discussions.

Thank you!

Am I railing against evangelicals participating in athletics? No. I'm just asking that efforts be made so that they're not the only ones benefiting fo rom FBS athletics.

And yes, I think a school that says "No Jews, or no Gays" in employment is appalling and not worthy of association.

Have you ever heard or seen "no jews, or no gays" actually associated with Liberty or their teachings? You might start with the understanding that the very person at the center of their worship was a Jew. Quit repeating some dumb ass, you will be better served for it.

Yea, its on their application. Now, to be fair, it doesn't say no Gays or No Jews. But what it does say

http://www.liberty.edu/media/1312/hr_for...-2015).pdf

And it looks like they put the faculty handbook back behind a password wall again. Last time I checked it out, it required all employees to sign and affirm it. And IIRC, it mandated that all employees live by that statement in their personal lives as a condition of employment.

Here's a quote from the University in 2014

“For decades, Liberty University has hired only faculty members who affirm the university’s doctrinal statement....  Liberty has no plans to ever deviate from any of its longstanding policies and procedures for hiring"

Its a full on ban, in practice. You can't really be not Christian and agree to affirm Christianity in your private life. You can't really affirm marriage as being between one man and one woman if youre in a same sex marriage.

---

So why is this important? Because acceptance of outright discrimination by LU affirms it elsewhere in FBS. Its not like anyone can point to non-Christian or LGBT coaches, athletes, or staff at any of the FBS schools. (There will be 1 - the first ever - openly LGBT scholarship player this year - out of 11,030 scholarship slots).

So yea, if you guys promote LU as somehow acceptable, you're promoting their policies as acceptable. I get it, many of you see no problem that FBS is almost exclusively the preserve of two groups (white straight Christian males and black straight Christian males) only. Many of you might be offended that a queer or a non-Christian would even bring the subject up...."just go sit in the corner and shut up....by the way....here's the bill for the coaches salary and the scholarships".

----

So long as the issue of the virtual comprehensive exclusion of LGBT persons and non-Christians from our FBS programs exists, I'll be putting in my $0.02 when people elect to post support for their program. Feel free to ignore if you can't handle someone questioning why FBS is a private club that we all have to fund. Or if you can't handle actually reading the posts of someone who isn't straight and Christian.

----

Liberty ISN'T in the Sun Belt. Its no more off topic for me to bring up their exclusion than it was for someone to cheerlead them in the first place in here. I didn't start the thread folks.

You do know after awhile it's just blah,blah,blah. I like your posts when you post about sports. Tired of this other so until you talk sports...on ignore.

(05-28-2017 12:35 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-27-2017 06:05 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 11:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 11:41 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Every time I hear someone complaining about athletic fees I ask what would happen to the fine arts programs if students who never attended demanded they stop having to pay those fees. The bottom line is fees aren't a la cart items. You don't get to pick and choose. Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head and makes them attend a certain school. You don't like the fees being charged at X university, pick another school. Tom, your constant railing against Liberty and Christians in general is very tiresome. We get it, you don't like either. Do everyone a favor and stick to discussing athletics and keep your personal agenda out of these discussions.

Thank you!

Am I railing against evangelicals participating in athletics? No. I'm just asking that efforts be made so that they're not the only ones benefiting fo rom FBS athletics.

And yes, I think a school that says "No Jews, or no Gays" in employment is appalling and not worthy of association.

Have you ever heard or seen "no jews, or no gays" actually associated with Liberty or their teachings? You might start with the understanding that the very person at the center of their worship was a Jew. Quit repeating some dumb ass, you will be better served for it.

Yea, its on their application. Now, to be fair, it doesn't say no Gays or No Jews. But what it does say

http://www.liberty.edu/media/1312/hr_for...-2015).pdf

And it looks like they put the faculty handbook back behind a password wall again. Last time I checked it out, it required all employees to sign and affirm it. And IIRC, it mandated that all employees live by that statement in their personal lives as a condition of employment.

Here's a quote from the University in 2014

“For decades, Liberty University has hired only faculty members who affirm the university’s doctrinal statement....  Liberty has no plans to ever deviate from any of its longstanding policies and procedures for hiring"

Its a full on ban, in practice. You can't really be not Christian and agree to affirm Christianity in your private life. You can't really affirm marriage as being between one man and one woman if youre in a same sex marriage.

---

So why is this important? Because acceptance of outright discrimination by LU affirms it elsewhere in FBS. Its not like anyone can point to non-Christian or LGBT coaches, athletes, or staff at any of the FBS schools. (There will be 1 - the first ever - openly LGBT scholarship player this year - out of 11,030 scholarship slots).

So yea, if you guys promote LU as somehow acceptable, you're promoting their policies as acceptable. I get it, many of you see no problem that FBS is almost exclusively the preserve of two groups (white straight Christian males and black straight Christian males) only. Many of you might be offended that a queer or a non-Christian would even bring the subject up...."just go sit in the corner and shut up....by the way....here's the bill for the coaches salary and the scholarships".

----

So long as the issue of the virtual comprehensive exclusion of LGBT persons and non-Christians from our FBS programs exists, I'll be putting in my $0.02. Feel free to ignore if you can't handle someone questioning why FBS is a private club that we all have to fund. Or if you can't handle actually reading the posts of someone who isn't straight and Christian.

----

Liberty ISN'T in the Sun Belt. Its no more off topic for me to bring up their exclusion than it was for someone to cheerlead them in the first place in here. I didn't start the thread folks.

So basically the answer is no

HEY LACAJUNFAN AND STOOLDOG!!!!!!! YOU GUYS GET ON THIS THREAD AND START THE NAME GAME ARGUMENT. IT'S THE ONLY WAY THE MODS WILL KILL A THREAD!

This topic is worse than beating a dead horse.

(one for each page if you are wondering)

(05-28-2017 01:35 PM)TaxusExpress Wrote:  HEY LACAJUNFAN AND STOOLDOG!!!!!!! YOU GUYS GET ON THIS THREAD AND START THE NAME GAME ARGUMENT. IT'S THE ONLY WAY THE MODS WILL KILL A THREAD!

This topic is worse than beating a dead horse.

(one for each page if you are wondering)

I already tried that. It was kind of half hearted and didn't work.

Tom is vehemently anti-LU due to stances on religion and sexuality, yet he defines FBS athletics as protecting two primary groups, white and black heterosexual males.. exclusive of all others. Hmm. A bit sexist, or just ignorant?

Last I checked, there was a whole other sex that played sports as well. At least an equal number, according to Title IX. And last time I checked, in reality, not in posted guidelines or policies, there were an awful lot of them who would seemingly be just fine living an orientation of choice without repremand by their athletic departments.

Perhaps in sports, like life, there are longstanding societal/moral issues that explain far more of this than one individual school standing in the way of change anywhere else? Seems to me there is a lot more to worry about if this is a real concern for anyone, than just "Holy XXXX, what are we gonna do about LU". LU might be > 0% of the problem, buy my God man, you'd think they're like 51% to some.

Gimme a break. Is it right? Depends what you believe. Should it affect qualified individuals from participating in FBS athletics, no. Why because sexuality and religion aren't in the NCAA handbook. If you wanna take that up with the NCAA, including schools like LU, BYU, Notre Dame, or the dozens of Church backed schools, go ahead. But singling one out here repeatedly is just ridiculous.

I mean, just consider...

How about our service academies? Let alone the lesser ones like VMI, Citadel, etc. Is there moral concern how conscientious objectors feel, who may be there to play sports or get top notch engineering, aerospace, etc training. Should we petition to ban these schools?

Or the Big East, at one time known as "The Catholic Seven". They even realigned more recently to reflect those origianl members desire for a non football conference. Or any of the numerous southern Baptist backed schools. Etc. Exactly where does any level of school required doctrine or study impede one's ability to live freely?

(05-28-2017 03:57 PM)MOTIAW Wrote:  I mean, just consider...

How about our service academies? Let alone the lesser ones like VMI, Citadel, etc. Is there moral concern how conscientious objectors feel, who may be there to play sports or get top notch engineering, aerospace, etc training. Should we petition to ban these schools?

Or the Big East, at one time known as "The Catholic Seven". They even realigned more recently to reflect those origianl members desire for a non football conference. Or any of the numerous southern Baptist backed schools. Etc. Exactly where does any level of school required doctrine or study impede one's ability to live freely?

Come on.... in the United States today you know you cannot align with rules that meet your religious ideals. It's illegal.....oh wait!

Alright...You guys win. Thread closed.