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Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
Frank Martin might've started out thinking "I'll just coach 'em up", but it was 2015 when he really made some noise.

He already had a 4* top 40 recruit named Sindarius Thornwell on the roster going into his junior year and then he signed 5* top 30 player PJ Dozier in 2015.
05-12-2017 11:44 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
UNLV had to go through an 11 win season to get 4 and 5 star recruits...South Carolina had to get through 14-20 and 17-16 to get where they are today.

but no, not at Memphis! Tubby has to win 30 games and make the Sweet 16 every year or he's a failure.
05-12-2017 11:47 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 11:47 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  UNLV had to go through an 11 win season to get 4 and 5 star recruits...South Carolina had to get through 14-20 and 17-16 to get where they are today.

but no, not at Memphis! Tubby has to win 30 games and make the Sweet 16 every year or he's a failure.

Link?
05-12-2017 12:03 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.
05-12-2017 12:30 PM
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gusrob Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 11:44 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  Frank Martin might've started out thinking "I'll just coach 'em up", but it was 2015 when he really made some noise.

He already had a 4* top 40 recruit named Sindarius Thornwell on the roster going into his junior year and then he signed 5* top 30 player PJ Dozier in 2015.

THIS

not to mention that Bobby Huggins also did not take his recruits with him when he left K State for WVU. Frank has had ballers. Take players and get best of them. That's the job.

Nobody was calling Frank Martin a stud when he came here without Thornwell.....
05-12-2017 12:47 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-11-2017 06:25 PM)poppaslaw Wrote:  "Any time you're adding talent, there's hope,” he said. “I come back to: Talent doesn't guarantee you win, but bad players is going to guarantee you losing. That's just how it is. If you tell me there's a guy out there that says, 'Well, I like to coach 'em up,' well, you go coach 'em up, and let me go get talented guys."
05-12-2017 12:50 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #27
Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.
05-12-2017 12:59 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 12:59 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.

True. But it's also important to note that Martin's final four team had three 4* and a 5*.
05-12-2017 01:14 PM
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Joe1 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 12:59 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.

Quality response but no matter what you say it won't change with these folks. That family tie situation is an overblown joke.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 01:15 PM by Joe1.)
05-12-2017 01:14 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #30
Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 01:14 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:59 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.

True. But it's also important to note that Martin's final four team had three 4* and a 5*.

But he started with a 4* in Thornwell and eventually recruited more solid players. No reason to think the '18 and the '19 class won't yield similar results for us. If it doesn't then we'll move on.
05-12-2017 01:17 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 01:17 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:14 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:59 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.

True. But it's also important to note that Martin's final four team had three 4* and a 5*.

But he started with a 4* in Thornwell and eventually recruited more solid players. No reason to think the '18 and the '19 class won't yield similar results for us. If it doesn't then we'll move on.

And we can all talk about it until then--with civil intent..yes? lol.
05-12-2017 01:24 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #32
Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 01:24 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:17 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:14 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:59 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Like I said, Frank Martin already had 4* Junior Thornwell.

If we look at Frank Martin's results, it sure seems like Frank recruited a bunch of semi-underachievers to little avail his first three years. Then he landed a combination of a local 4* who lived in his backyard, and a 5* with family connections--who was a given--to take Martin and South Carolina to the next level.

Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.

True. But it's also important to note that Martin's final four team had three 4* and a 5*.

But he started with a 4* in Thornwell and eventually recruited more solid players. No reason to think the '18 and the '19 class won't yield similar results for us. If it doesn't then we'll move on.

And we can all talk about it until then--with civil intent..yes? lol.

Huh?
05-12-2017 01:25 PM
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Joe1 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
Six long months. How many ways can we question?

Fun times
05-12-2017 01:29 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 01:25 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:24 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:17 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:14 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 12:59 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  We got Jamal Johnson who is a 4* guard. If the '18 class turns out to be solid then this thing may turn around in '18-'19 season.

True. But it's also important to note that Martin's final four team had three 4* and a 5*.

But he started with a 4* in Thornwell and eventually recruited more solid players. No reason to think the '18 and the '19 class won't yield similar results for us. If it doesn't then we'll move on.

And we can all talk about it until then--with civil intent..yes? lol.

Huh?

Not directed at anyone in particular--. lol
05-12-2017 01:30 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #35
Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 01:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:25 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:24 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:17 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 01:14 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  True. But it's also important to note that Martin's final four team had three 4* and a 5*.

But he started with a 4* in Thornwell and eventually recruited more solid players. No reason to think the '18 and the '19 class won't yield similar results for us. If it doesn't then we'll move on.

And we can all talk about it until then--with civil intent..yes? lol.

Huh?

Not directed at anyone in particular--. lol

I'm confused now lol
05-12-2017 01:30 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
Here's what I'm wondering. Why can't folks just acknowledge the fact that we have a long way to dig if we are going to be using less talent to get there.

Players that have been signed generally do not produce NCAA level teams. Whether Memphis has sunk to the depths where it can't attract that caliber of player anymore is a different discussion.

But people keep saying, "how do we know? We haven't played one game with Tubby's kids...Give Tubby a chance....and so on."

Then there are the ones who say, "Tubby's here, suck it up, you need to stfu." lol.

I'm still looking at it from many angles: There is little data to support that next year will be easy to watch. We can get a pretty good hint of what's going to happen the same way that insurance folks do. Those underwriters know that a guy with two DUI's is more of an insurance risk than a 45 year old man with a perfect driving record. Agents don't even need to "watch film" or "wait and see"--they know that the "ratings" each person has been given based on previous observations gives the agents a good idea about future performance.

And.... just like college evaluations for incoming students. I'm pretty sure Stanford, for example, would be able to prove that kids accepted with 24 ACT don't perform as well as one with a 35 ACT. The admissions folks at Stanford didn't follow the kids around in high school.

Bottom line: No one needs to "wait and see" to make those determinations. It's pure risk assessment.

We all love our Tigers and want to see them do well again. So.....
Go Tigers Go! 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 01:54 PM by snowtiger.)
05-12-2017 01:52 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 01:52 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Here's what I'm wondering. Why can't folks just acknowledge the fact that we have a long way to dig if we are going to be using less talent to get there.

Players that have been signed generally do not produce NCAA level teams. Whether Memphis has sunk to the depths where it can't attract that caliber of player anymore is a different discussion.

But people keep saying, "how do we know? We haven't played one game with Tubby's kids...Give Tubby a chance....and so on."

Then there are the ones who say, "Tubby's here, suck it up, you need to stfu." lol.

I'm still looking at it from many angles: There is little data to support that next year will be easy to watch. We can get a pretty good hint of what's going to happen the same way that insurance folks do. Those underwriters know that a guy with two DUI's is more of an insurance risk than a 45 year old man with a perfect driving record. Agents don't even need to "watch film" or "wait and see"--they know that the "ratings" each person has been given based on previous observations gives the agents a good idea about future performance.

And.... just like college evaluations for incoming students. I'm pretty sure Stanford, for example, would be able to prove that kids accepted with 24 ACT don't perform as well as one with a 35 ACT. The admissions folks at Stanford didn't follow the kids around in high school.

Bottom line: No one needs to "wait and see" to make those determinations. It's pure risk assessment.

We all love our Tigers and want to see them do well again. So.....
Go Tigers Go! 04-cheers

A very well thought out and reasoned post. I will add that there is nothing wrong with knowing all this and still being optimistic. I was guilty of this with Tic Price, Johnny Jones, Larry Porter, John Calipari and Josh Pastner.

Larry Porter and Pastner had no body of work, so I was optimistic that they would be able to recruit at a high level and learn the game as they went along. Tic Price had success at a much lesser program, Johnny Jones was put in a difficult situation and had the team playing well at the end of the season and Cal was a proven commodity who deserved leeway.

I only gave up on Pastner and Tommy West at the end. Tubby is on his 3rd recruiting class with no light at the end of the tunnel...so far.
05-12-2017 02:13 PM
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MTigerBlue Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
I agree. Why play the games? We know we're gonna lose. Just forfeit and let the kids spend that time with tutors so we can get back to the APR Final Four. The next time we have a top recruiting class, then we can start playing 'em again. Till then, let's just find a safe space.
05-12-2017 04:22 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 12:30 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Maybe Tubby should follow Frank's plan and go for the local 4*. lol Too bad there aren't any 5* in the Memphis area who would have had family ties to Memphis.

Ouch!
05-12-2017 05:03 PM
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Joe1 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Tubby Smith's coaching philosophy is the same as Frank Martin
(05-12-2017 04:22 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I agree. Why play the games? We know we're gonna lose. Just forfeit and let the kids spend that time with tutors so we can get back to the APR Final Four. The next time we have a top recruiting class, then we can start playing 'em again. Till then, let's just find a safe space.

Ouch. I love the safe spaces. 03-lmfao
05-12-2017 07:38 PM
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