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It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse
(05-13-2017 10:42 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 10:49 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:53 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 01:03 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  UC and Ohio State collaborate to address Higher Ed with the Ohio lawmakers today.

Hopefully someone suggests the politicians in this state and Ohio State could help Higher Ed by getting UC in a power 5 conference. 05-stirthepot

[Image: C_evhKJXUAE9T1L.jpg:large]

How about a declaration that Cincy is a flagship? Other states have two.

No they don't. Ono pulled that straight out of his ass. There's always a hierarchy between a Texas/A&M, Michigan/MSU, UVA/VaTech and so on. And Ono was either deceiving or ignorant regarding that, even in those cases, those are states that split the arts & sciences flagship from the A&M land-grant school. Ohio didn't. It founded OSU with the conscious decision to follow the Wisconsin, California, Minnesota, Illinois model of combining the two. UC can take two approaches in how to deal with the state. They can take Ono's approach of poking a stick at the 800 lb gorilla that has political and corporate support in every county in the state by doing stupid things and demanding co-flagship status or blaming his lack of achievement (particularly regarding a Comprehensive Cancer Center) on some OSU conspiracy. Or it can attempt to work with OSU to separate UC from the rest of the system and make it if not a co-flagship then something above and more important than KSU or Toledo in the eyes of the state. That may not be enough to appease the hard-core Republic of Cincinnati OSU haters, but quite honestly, it's the best that UC is going to get.

The fact that OSU and UC did this together suggests that Pinto has enough intelligence and perspective (remember, he's spent far more time at UC than Ono ever did) to distance himself from Ono's approach and begin working with OSU.

The idea that Ono never worked with OSU is laughable. You have some sort of vendetta against him and it comes out over and over.

I'm not saying there was no institutional cooperation between UC and OSU during Ono's tenure.There was, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was being driven by Ono's office. As for Ono personally he couldn't have been more tone-deaf in how he death with OSU and seemed to go out of his way to antagonize them. But that was Ono's whole schtick: play to the masses to build his own personal popularity and brand even if it ended up setting back the interests of the university.

As for any vendetta against him, I don't know about that. I do, however, believe that he was a smooth talking con man who pumped sunshine up everyone's ass, made huge promises and then bailed on UC right before it became evident that none of his BS was actually going to happen.
 
05-13-2017 10:59 AM
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Post: #22
RE: It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse
(05-13-2017 10:59 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I'm not saying there was no institutional cooperation between UC and OSU during Ono's tenure.There was, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was being driven by Ono's office. As for Ono personally he couldn't have been more tone-deaf in how he death with OSU and seemed to go out of his way to antagonize them. But that was Ono's whole schtick: play to the masses to build his own personal popularity and brand even if it ended up setting back the interests of the university.

As for any vendetta against him, I don't know about that. I do, however, believe that he was a smooth talking con man who pumped sunshine up everyone's ass, made huge promises and then bailed on UC right before it became evident that none of his BS was actually going to happen.

Your idea of antagonizing OSU is that he was ambitious in what he thought UC should be. Aiming for AAU, aiming to be considered another flagship, aiming for P5. I'm not sure I ever saw him say a negative word about OSU and repeatedly touted efforts to work with that University and his admiration for people there. UC was a better University for having Ono and I am hopeful the new president will continue to build on the progress the university continues to make.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2017 11:06 AM by bearcatmark.)
05-13-2017 11:05 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse
(05-13-2017 11:05 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(05-13-2017 10:59 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I'm not saying there was no institutional cooperation between UC and OSU during Ono's tenure.There was, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was being driven by Ono's office. As for Ono personally he couldn't have been more tone-deaf in how he death with OSU and seemed to go out of his way to antagonize them. But that was Ono's whole schtick: play to the masses to build his own personal popularity and brand even if it ended up setting back the interests of the university.

As for any vendetta against him, I don't know about that. I do, however, believe that he was a smooth talking con man who pumped sunshine up everyone's ass, made huge promises and then bailed on UC right before it became evident that none of his BS was actually going to happen.

Your idea of antagonizing OSU is that he was ambitious in what he thought UC should be. Aiming for AAU, aiming to be considered another flagship, aiming for P5. I'm not sure I ever saw him say a negative word about OSU and repeatedly touted efforts to work with that University and his admiration for people there. UC was a better University for having Ono and I am hopeful the new president will continue to build on the progress the university continues to make.

First, I have no problem with a driving goal of UC being AAU membership. It should be. That being said, when it didn't happen, I heard that, behind closed doors, Ono tried to blame OSU for it and that got back to Columbus. The reason real reason that we're falling short is that UC needs to build up the hard sciences, humanities and social sciences. Right now, UC's strength is overly concentrated in the medical and engineering colleges (and DAAP, but that's not going to be a driver in admission). He was apparently also blaming OSU behind closed doors regarding a Comprehensive Cancer Center, when he should have damned well known that the chances of UC getting one are between slim and none because Ohio already has 3 (along with Texas, NC and NY), and no state has more than 3 other than California.

As for "multiple flagships" (and that's what he proposed), given what OSU went through in the 60s and 70s, that was the worst thing he could have done if he wanted a positive relationship with OSU, which actually might come in handy since their Prez is about to become Chair of the AAU. Not only did he rush into it in his first few months in office, he didn't attempt to build any consensus with other university Presidents. And what the heck are "multiple flagships?" Does Cleveland get a flagship? How about Toledo? And let's not leave Miami and OU out; they were first. You get a flagship. and you get a flagship. Everybody gets a flagship. It'll be like The Incredibles; If everyone's a flagship then that means nobody's a flagship. OSU read that newspaper Op-Ed and immediately flashed back to the 60s and 70s era of all state schools being the same and everybody adding doctoral and research programs at will. Whatever else Ono might have done, the damage was done in Columbus the minute he uttered "multiple flagships." I've detailed why the even the concept of "co-flagships" isn't what Ono made it out to be. Perhaps somebody a little more competent might have actually studied the lay of the land and the history of the state sytem and considered more realistic and less contentious goals for UC's role in the state system, things that might not have been as flashy but might have been much more achievable. I'm not saying that UC needs to walk on eggshells in dealing with OSU, but it needs to be smart and set out goals that might gain OSU's support rather than opposition. But that wasn't Ono's style because he was all about making as a big as possible pr splash and building up the brand of Ono.

And again, let's judge him by his actual accomplishments. Were we elected into the AAU? No. Did we get a Comprehensive Cancer Center? No. Are we in a P5 conference? No. Are we designated as a co-flagship to OSU? No. The only thing he didn't promise us was a monorail.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2017 11:51 AM by Bearcat 1985.)
05-13-2017 11:42 AM
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Ragpicker Offline
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Post: #24
RE: It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse
(05-11-2017 10:49 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:53 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 01:03 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  UC and Ohio State collaborate to address Higher Ed with the Ohio lawmakers today.

Hopefully someone suggests the politicians in this state and Ohio State could help Higher Ed by getting UC in a power 5 conference. 05-stirthepot

[Image: C_evhKJXUAE9T1L.jpg:large]

How about a declaration that Cincy is a flagship? Other states have two.

No they don't. Ono pulled that straight out of his ass. There's always a hierarchy between a Texas/A&M, Michigan/MSU, UVA/VaTech and so on. And Ono was either deceiving or ignorant regarding that, even in those cases, those are states that split the arts & sciences flagship from the A&M land-grant school. Ohio didn't. It founded OSU with the conscious decision to follow the Wisconsin, California, Minnesota, Illinois model of combining the two. UC can take two approaches in how to deal with the state. They can take Ono's approach of poking a stick at the 800 lb gorilla that has political and corporate support in every county in the state by doing stupid things and demanding co-flagship status or blaming his lack of achievement (particularly regarding a Comprehensive Cancer Center) on some OSU conspiracy. Or it can attempt to work with OSU to separate UC from the rest of the system and make it if not a co-flagship then something above and more important than KSU or Toledo in the eyes of the state. That may not be enough to appease the hard-core Republic of Cincinnati OSU haters, but quite honestly, it's the best that UC is going to get.

The fact that OSU and UC did this together suggests that Pinto has enough intelligence and perspective (remember, he's spent far more time at UC than Ono ever did) to distance himself from Ono's approach and begin working with OSU.

Please stop with all your logic and thorough knowledge of the situation. Selfies, food tweets, and crowd surfing are far more important. #hottestgrifterinamerica
 
05-13-2017 09:10 PM
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Ring of Black Offline
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Post: #25
RE: It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse


 
05-14-2017 07:50 AM
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: It's Buckeye and Bearcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse
(05-14-2017 07:50 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

Change monorail to streetcar and you have Cincinnati,
 
05-14-2017 10:32 AM
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