(05-10-2017 12:31 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 11:10 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 08:33 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Adding Omaha, kc, and 1 Indiana school would make for good 6 team divisions for the horizon

It would make two 6 divisions, not sure how "good" those divisions would be.

The HL, if they do this will be lowering their conference RPI dramatically. Losing Valpo would be bad enough, adding three schools who are upper 100s into the 200s in RPI (Omaha could be over 300 next year) will not help the league other then to adding additional costs to the remaining schools travel budgets.

Omaha, IUPUI, and Fort Wayne would be right in the middle of the league in RPI. UNO would have had the fifth-highest RPI in the conference in 2016-17 and 2015-16. Fort Wayne has been above the median RPI of the remaining nine Horizon Leauge schools for three of the last four seasons (and missed by 5 places in 2014-15), while Omaha and IUPUI have been above it each of the last two years. The XDSUs, which have combined for the last five Summit League titles, have been above that median RPI each of the last four seasons, for what it's worth.

Are those schools going to keep the average RPI where it is? Probably not, but the Valley is about to have the same problem replacing Wichita State with Valpo, and poaching any of those Summit League schools would be a blow to the Summit, especially Fort Wayne, because, again, the schools they backfill with won't be as good. Every conference that has to replace a school that gets pulled to another league is going to face that problem. Butler and SLU are not walking through that door.

If the Horizon wanted to go to 14 with IUPUI, Fort Wayne, Omaha, and UMKC as part of that expansion (the other school could be RMU, Belmont, anybody, really), they could really hit the Summit League hard and create some space for themselves. Gotta think that's on the minds of the bigwigs.

Where does RMU park FB? They aren't getting an MVFC invite.

Belmont isn't going to the Horizon.

Omaha? How do they afford to move to the Horizon?

UMKC? Maybe but way out of the footprint and if you go UMKC why would you not go after NMSU who would be the top team in the Horizon the day they arrive. Of course, unless NMSU want to get away from GCU, the WAC is becoming a better league then the Horizon. Plus the cheaper costs in the WAC allow them to stay Independent in FBS. Academics? There are no flagships in the Horizon just a lot of schools like they already have in the WAC (GCU the exception).

IUPUI and Ft Wayne are more likely but does the Horizon want both?

The top people at the Horizon may want to kill the Summit. Just remember, once you invite a school your stuck with them. If your intent in inviting schools is to kill another league, and those schools are not at the top of that other league, your likely only hurting yourself.

(05-10-2017 01:17 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 12:31 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 11:10 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 08:33 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Adding Omaha, kc, and 1 Indiana school would make for good 6 team divisions for the horizon

It would make two 6 divisions, not sure how "good" those divisions would be.

The HL, if they do this will be lowering their conference RPI dramatically. Losing Valpo would be bad enough, adding three schools who are upper 100s into the 200s in RPI (Omaha could be over 300 next year) will not help the league other then to adding additional costs to the remaining schools travel budgets.

Omaha, IUPUI, and Fort Wayne would be right in the middle of the league in RPI. UNO would have had the fifth-highest RPI in the conference in 2016-17 and 2015-16. Fort Wayne has been above the median RPI of the remaining nine Horizon Leauge schools for three of the last four seasons (and missed by 5 places in 2014-15), while Omaha and IUPUI have been above it each of the last two years. The XDSUs, which have combined for the last five Summit League titles, have been above that median RPI each of the last four seasons, for what it's worth.

Are those schools going to keep the average RPI where it is? Probably not, but the Valley is about to have the same problem replacing Wichita State with Valpo, and poaching any of those Summit League schools would be a blow to the Summit, especially Fort Wayne, because, again, the schools they backfill with won't be as good. Every conference that has to replace a school that gets pulled to another league is going to face that problem. Butler and SLU are not walking through that door.

If the Horizon wanted to go to 14 with IUPUI, Fort Wayne, Omaha, and UMKC as part of that expansion (the other school could be RMU, Belmont, anybody, really), they could really hit the Summit League hard and create some space for themselves. Gotta think that's on the minds of the bigwigs.

Where does RMU park FB? They aren't getting an MVFC invite.

Belmont isn't going to the Horizon.

Omaha? How do they afford to move to the Horizon?

UMKC? Maybe but way out of the footprint and if you go UMKC why would you not go after NMSU who would be the top team in the Horizon the day they arrive. Of course, unless NMSU want to get away from GCU, the WAC is becoming a better league then the Horizon. Plus the cheaper costs in the WAC allow them to stay Independent in FBS. Academics? There are no flagships in the Horizon just a lot of schools like they already have in the WAC (GCU the exception).

IUPUI and Ft Wayne are more likely but does the Horizon want both?

The top people at the Horizon may want to kill the Summit. Just remember, once you invite a school your stuck with them. If your intent in inviting schools is to kill another league, and those schools are not at the top of that other league, your likely only hurting yourself.

The Big South, like Monmouth. If they don't want to do that, then stay in the NEC like Wagner did instead of joining a conf. w/o fcs football. Or drop schollys and go to the Pioneer.

Considering RMU's football options, it's not like the NEC is in a position to get tough on the school. Nobody's rushing to go there, and as of now, there are eight members in the conference, one being an affiliate. If RMU doesn't want to change football, NEC's likely to keep that arrangement. My guess is, if they cut RMU, Duquesne could bolt, too. Both would be eagerly met by the Big South.

Seven's the number for AQ in FCS conferences? Do you really want to mess with that getting tough on Bob Mo?

Six is actually the minimum for an AQ in FCS, not that the NEC really has that much room to spare given its low-scholarship setup.

(05-10-2017 02:27 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Considering RMU's football options, it's not like the NEC is in a position to get tough on the school. Nobody's rushing to go there, and as of now, there are eight members in the conference, one being an affiliate. If RMU doesn't want to change football, NEC's likely to keep that arrangement. My guess is, if they cut RMU, Duquesne could bolt, too. Both would be eagerly met by the Big South.

Seven's the number for AQ in FCS conferences? Do you really want to mess with that getting tough on Bob Mo?

NEC kicked Monmouth out when they left I believe

(05-10-2017 10:22 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  The with or without them the league is a 1 bid league - now and forever.

Has any conference ever "invited" (meaning invited the right teams) its way to something beyond one-bid status?

Horizon adds one or two.They will not go to twelve at this time since they are waiting to see if the MVC is finished over the next two years.

(05-10-2017 08:30 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 10:22 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  The with or without them the league is a 1 bid league - now and forever.

Has any conference ever "invited" (meaning invited the right teams) its way to something beyond one-bid status?

Arguably, the CAA and WCC have done that. Maybe even the Horizon qualifies for that, but it had pretty good beginnings with Notre Dame and Xavier.

(05-10-2017 06:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 02:27 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Considering RMU's football options, it's not like the NEC is in a position to get tough on the school. Nobody's rushing to go there, and as of now, there are eight members in the conference, one being an affiliate. If RMU doesn't want to change football, NEC's likely to keep that arrangement. My guess is, if they cut RMU, Duquesne could bolt, too. Both would be eagerly met by the Big South.

Seven's the number for AQ in FCS conferences? Do you really want to mess with that getting tough on Bob Mo?

NEC kicked Monmouth out when they left I believe

Wasn't Monmouth's scholarship increase deliberate/purposeful, though? They wanted to offer more scholarships so they could get FBS games. Or, that was how Monmouth tried selling it?

Quote:Six is actually the minimum for an AQ in FCS, not that the NEC really has that much room to spare given its low-scholarship setup.

What does it say that teams would rather go all-in on scholarships than go halfway? The Pioneer is shedding, and none of it is going toward NEC. Beggars can't be choosers.

Quote:Has any conference ever "invited" (meaning invited the right teams) its way to something beyond one-bid status?

WAC was able to invite the right schools after the MWC split and the eventual C-USA peel-off to retain some visibility in basketball. It was curtains after the gutting of a few years ago.

A10 wasn't that great a conference when it had some of the now-majors (think Penn State, Rutgers, VTech, and WVU) in it. It got better with its pickings. Some better than others.

Don't forget that Bentley, Merrimack and Southern New Hampshire wants to go D1. Bentley and Merrimack could bring their football to NEC. Robert Morris might get a Big South invite. Could one of the D2 Penn schools make a move to join Robert Morris in the Big South?

There an article in the Beaver County Times (pay site so didn't link it) that Robert Morris might be invited to the Horizon and MVFC. The MVFC seems a stretch, but maybe if the 4 Dakotas peel off, Robert Morris might get serious consideration from the MVFC just for numbers. Murray St and Bobby Mo might be needed.

With UND coming in to Summit to make 10, why not 9 member Horizon add all 10 SL to have 19 members? That's 18 conference games single round robin for MBB.

All other sports would have less travel since the two conferences pretty much share the same geography.

(05-15-2017 06:27 PM)fresnofanatic Wrote:  With UND coming in to Summit to make 10, why not 9 member Horizon add all 10 SL to have 19 members? That's 18 conference games single round robin for MBB.

All other sports would have less travel since the two conferences pretty much share the same geography.

The Horizon wouldn't look favorably on the Dakotas because of travel cost and they are from a rural region. Same goes for W Illinois, only they have poor bb facilities.

(05-08-2017 11:20 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If the Horizon moves to 11 with IUPUI/Ft Wayne.

Does that compel UMKC to take an opening in the Summit? North Dakota is moving there so there is some forward momentum.

Probably not as they like the sexy West Coast recruiting locales than butt freezing Dakotas.

UMKC left the Summit for the WAC, would look bad trying to move back now

(05-16-2017 02:41 AM)Policiious Wrote:  

(05-08-2017 11:20 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If the Horizon moves to 11 with IUPUI/Ft Wayne.

Does that compel UMKC to take an opening in the Summit? North Dakota is moving there so there is some forward momentum.

Probably not as they like the sexy West Coast recruiting locales than butt freezing Dakotas.

UMKC left the Summit for the WAC, would look bad trying to move back now

ORU left the SL for a year or 2 and came back. No one shamed them.

(05-15-2017 06:27 PM)fresnofanatic Wrote:  With UND coming in to Summit to make 10, why not 9 member Horizon add all 10 SL to have 19 members? That's 18 conference games single round robin for MBB.

All other sports would have less travel since the two conferences pretty much share the same geography.

The biggest reason this type of thing won't happen is because a conference isn't willing to give up its auto NCAA bid, and I can't blame them.

However, it does make for a great conference idea. I suggested this same thing for the Big South and Atlantic Sun. That's when someone pointed out the lost auto bid.

Just like MVFC and WAC, Big West and MWC and MWC and C-USA ideas been floating around.

(05-16-2017 04:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Just like MVFC and WAC, Big West and MWC and MWC and C-USA ideas been floating around.

Only in your world.

Time is running out for expansion for next year.

An intriguing addition mentioned on the Horizon board is a combo of Fort Wayne, Lipscomb and S Indiana to go to 12. Lipscomb hasnt been mentioned, but it's not a very strong program but plugs the Horizon into Nashville. RMU is a problem as it messes up the travel partners. Lipscomb and S Indiana would make a good travel pair.
Those three all offer baseball, so that helps the Horizon substantially with that sport. Previously didn't believe the Horizon would take a DII, but if it school helped it to get into Nashville, harmed the MVC by competing in Evansville, and helped with baseball, that could be a winning combo.

Would have to think the OVC would respond with IUPUI and W Ill to replace a possible future loss of Murray St. The ASUN could be in trouble as well the The Summit League, but already posted what the Dakotas want there.

NoDak, why would the OVC take two? The only school it is losing would be Murray State.

I'm not sure that the Altantic Sun would need to add anyone to replace Lipscomb, unless if NJIT flies the coop as well; if Lipscomb leaves the Atlantic Sun will have 8 members, 7 of whom are active members of Division I. If Robert Morris stays put then there isn't anywhere for NJIT to go. I'm not sure they would want another Northern school in IUPUI or WIU. The other possible out for the Atlantic Sun is that Chicago State survives as a Division I program, but is not renewed by the WAC. Chicago State and NJIT are at least close to multiple major airports.

As discussed elsewhere, the Summit is in a serious bind if it loses all of its members east of the Mississippi River, and would likely need to become a FCS conference to ensure its survival.