(05-04-2017 06:48 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I know Lots of you want facts but everything is unknown and up in the air and I see 4 teams that could all easily win the WAC. To many unknowns to give a factual picture of next year.

Good post, sums it up very well.

Currently mobile....away from the house or on "the throne."

Coaching defense isn't that hard its eatery than offense. Its more if kids buy into playing defense or not and last year UTRGV hardly played defense.

When UTRGV moves into the brand new arena it will really help recruiting. Have to imagine their current small arena is a turn off to recruits.

The Icardo Center is pretty small but we're still getting great recruits.

(05-04-2017 07:31 PM)Clarity Wrote:  The Icardo Center is pretty small but we're still getting great recruits.

True, however CSUB has already identified itself has a winning program. UTRGV has potential and I believe their Arena will help a lot. Would be cool to see them become a top WAC program. Seems like they are willing to dish out the money for it.

That's definitely fair. I think UTRVG has the most potential out of any of the non big 3 teams in the WAC. Maybe Seattle but it's pretty close.

(05-05-2017 03:33 PM)Clarity Wrote:  That's definitely fair. I think UTRVG has the most potential out of any of the non big 3 teams in the WAC. Maybe Seattle but it's pretty close.

SU was a national player with a Final Four and NBA HOFers back in the day. We wasted all our D1 time with Dollar, but SU could easily be St. Marys program today. The city of Seattle routinely has 4 and 5 star prospects with tons of 3 stars too in each class.

I would put SU higher than CSUB in potential. CSUB can be a great Big West team but thats it, nothing bigger. Hayford (who left EWU for what many would think an equal mid major program in SU) because of the schools potential. We also have bigger athletic budgets and attendance (as of 2014-15 last time I was presented the numbers) than everyone in the WCC besides their "big 3" of Zags, BYU, SMC.

SU can get back to one of the best mid majors with the right coach. But we've only seen Dollar. In one month at SU, Hayford got two high major transfers and two 3 star grad transfers, which Dollar never did. That says something.

SU is higher than CSUB, right up there with GCU and NMSU. Way higher than UTRGV. CSUB, UVU, and even UMKC have better potential than UTRGV imo. UTRGV can look at TAMUCC and UT Arlington to see what their best possible future looks like

I get Seattle has history but nobody really cares about what happened in the 50s. They haven't made an NCAA tournament since 1968 and haven't really come close to making it since being promoted back to D1. If SU can't keep leasing out Key Arena or the new possible arena their on campus gym hold 1,000 people. SU is also competing to get recruits with Gonzaga, Washington and Washington State. I get that we've only seen Dollar but it's really hard to reverse a culture of losing. San Francisco has great history and are in a good area but aren't a major program. Hayford will probably get better results but comparisons to Gonzaga or St Mary's at this state is really really optimistic.

For the record in regards to UTRVG's potential I was referring to how good they will over the next few years, not the long term.

(05-05-2017 09:30 PM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 03:33 PM)Clarity Wrote:  That's definitely fair. I think UTRVG has the most potential out of any of the non big 3 teams in the WAC. Maybe Seattle but it's pretty close.

SU was a national player with a Final Four and NBA HOFers back in the day. We wasted all our D1 time with Dollar, but SU could easily be St. Marys program today. The city of Seattle routinely has 4 and 5 star prospects with tons of 3 stars too in each class.

I would put SU higher than CSUB in potential. CSUB can be a great Big West team but thats it, nothing bigger. Hayford (who left EWU for what many would think an equal mid major program in SU) because of the schools potential. We also have bigger athletic budgets and attendance (as of 2014-15 last time I was presented the numbers) than everyone in the WCC besides their "big 3" of Zags, BYU, SMC.

SU can get back to one of the best mid majors with the right coach. But we've only seen Dollar. In one month at SU, Hayford got two high major transfers and two 3 star grad transfers, which Dollar never did. That says something.

SU is higher than CSUB, right up there with GCU and NMSU. Way higher than UTRGV. CSUB, UVU, and even UMKC have better potential than UTRGV imo. UTRGV can look at TAMUCC and UT Arlington to see what their best possible future looks like

"Potential" lies in the eye of the beholder, so I'm not interested in trying to move you off of your assessment. I also don't know about budgets, but can share that your SU attendance estimation in relation to the WCC is way off.

SU's 2016-17 home attendance average of 1405/game is only better than that of exactly 1 WCC school (Pepperdine - 1368). San Diego has SU beat by over 200 (1620), and it only goes up from there:

Santa Clara - 1739
San Francisco - 1913
Pacific - 2144
Loyola Marymount - 2202
Portland - 2366
St. Mary's - 3093
Gonzaga - 6000
BYU - 14476

I agree with Clarity that history is and should be a point of pride for the institution & alumni, but I'm not sure it moves the needle for high school kids born in 2000. Heck, their parents probably weren't even born before the mid-late 1970's.

You might get props from old farts like us, but I'm not sure it's realistic to expect kids will be impressed by successes that didn't take place in their lifetime, or even that of their parents.

...but to bring it back to "Lost Production by Team", who do you see having the most potential to lose or gain in attendance figures in 2017-18? Here were last season's final averages:

GCU - 6817
NMSU - 4886
UVU - 2940
CSUB - 2685
SU - 1405
UMKC - 1335
UTRGV - 1304
CSU - 1047

I think official capacity on GCU Arena is 7000 or 7200, so Lopes are pretty much topped out. I really hope the Aggies can recapture the hearts & imagination of LC again, as I'd love to see what that place looks like when it's fully rockin. I love that UVU has crept up into the top 3 (those Mormons love their basketball), and it also seemed like they had an increased presence at the WACt. Please feel free to correct me if you were there and I'm wrong. My only gauge is from the broadcasts.

I hope the community of Bakersfield stays on board with the Runners & gives them a reason to move some games back to that minor league hockey facility. Lastly, I hate to do it, but gotta call bs on that Chicago State number. You might be hard pressed to find a single home game where there were 1000 people in the building, let alone averaging north of that for the season. 1000 people on campus that day? Maybe. 1000 at any one game? Doubtful.

I would imagine the Icardo Center will be a near sellout every game this year. The NIT run really got this city excited and talking. I expect the season ticket numbers to really skyrocket. Definitely going to be harder to get a good seat next year.

(05-05-2017 11:41 PM)Clarity Wrote:  I would imagine the Icardo Center will be a near sellout every game this year. The NIT run really got this city excited and talking. I expect the season ticket numbers to really skyrocket.

That is great to hear. Capacity there is around 3800, right?

(05-05-2017 11:45 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 11:41 PM)Clarity Wrote:  I would imagine the Icardo Center will be a near sellout every game this year. The NIT run really got this city excited and talking. I expect the season ticket numbers to really skyrocket.

That is great to hear. Capacity there is around 3800, right?

Yep! Gonna be a fun year next year. Such a unique home court advantage.

Edit- Actually I think it's officially 3,500. Google has it wrong I believe.

(05-05-2017 11:19 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 09:30 PM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 03:33 PM)Clarity Wrote:  That's definitely fair. I think UTRVG has the most potential out of any of the non big 3 teams in the WAC. Maybe Seattle but it's pretty close.

SU was a national player with a Final Four and NBA HOFers back in the day. We wasted all our D1 time with Dollar, but SU could easily be St. Marys program today. The city of Seattle routinely has 4 and 5 star prospects with tons of 3 stars too in each class.

I would put SU higher than CSUB in potential. CSUB can be a great Big West team but thats it, nothing bigger. Hayford (who left EWU for what many would think an equal mid major program in SU) because of the schools potential. We also have bigger athletic budgets and attendance (as of 2014-15 last time I was presented the numbers) than everyone in the WCC besides their "big 3" of Zags, BYU, SMC.

SU can get back to one of the best mid majors with the right coach. But we've only seen Dollar. In one month at SU, Hayford got two high major transfers and two 3 star grad transfers, which Dollar never did. That says something.

SU is higher than CSUB, right up there with GCU and NMSU. Way higher than UTRGV. CSUB, UVU, and even UMKC have better potential than UTRGV imo. UTRGV can look at TAMUCC and UT Arlington to see what their best possible future looks like

"Potential" lies in the eye of the beholder, so I'm not interested in trying to move you off of your assessment. I also don't know about budgets, but can share that your SU attendance estimation in relation to the WCC is way off.

SU's 2016-17 home attendance average of 1405/game is only better than that of exactly 1 WCC school (Pepperdine - 1368). San Diego has SU beat by over 200 (1620), and it only goes up from there:

Santa Clara - 1739
San Francisco - 1913
Pacific - 2144
Loyola Marymount - 2202
Portland - 2366
St. Mary's - 3093
Gonzaga - 6000
BYU - 14476

I agree with Clarity that history is and should be a point of pride for the institution & alumni, but I'm not sure it moves the needle for high school kids born in 2000. Heck, their parents probably weren't even born before the mid-late 1970's.

You might get props from old farts like us, but I'm not sure it's realistic to expect kids will be impressed by successes that didn't take place in their lifetime, or even that of their parents.

At the beginning of Dollar's tenure, SU was averaging 4k+ as an independent. It has been a steady decline under Dollar in attendance to the numbers you show. I know specifically in 2014, when SU presented all these numbers (financial and attendance with the plans to model Xavier) in comparsion to WCC, it was that high. How quickly everything declined shows how big of a hole Dollar dug SU into

(05-05-2017 11:31 PM)gleadley Wrote:  ...but to bring it back to "Lost Production by Team", who do you see having the most potential to lose or gain in attendance figures in 2017-18? Here were last season's final averages:

GCU - 6817
NMSU - 4886
UVU - 2940
CSUB - 2685
SU - 1405
UMKC - 1335
UTRGV - 1304
CSU - 1047

I think official capacity on GCU Arena is 7000 or 7200, so Lopes are pretty much topped out. I really hope the Aggies can recapture the hearts & imagination of LC again, as I'd love to see what that place looks like when it's fully rockin. I love that UVU has crept up into the top 3 (those Mormons love their basketball), and it also seemed like they had an increased presence at the WACt. Please feel free to correct me if you were there and I'm wrong. My only gauge is from the broadcasts.

I hope the community of Bakersfield stays on board with the Runners & gives them a reason to move some games back to that minor league hockey facility. Lastly, I hate to do it, but gotta call bs on that Chicago State number. You might be hard pressed to find a single home game where there were 1000 people in the building, let alone averaging north of that for the season. 1000 people on campus that day? Maybe. 1000 at any one game? Doubtful.

I think Chicago State averaged like 400+ two years ago, and they definitely didn't have a spike in attendance. The number for this year has to be inflated.

SU is the only WAC member that has gone significantly downward since joining the WAC. We had numbers like UVU when we first joined

(05-05-2017 11:49 PM)Clarity Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 11:45 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 11:41 PM)Clarity Wrote:  I would imagine the Icardo Center will be a near sellout every game this year. The NIT run really got this city excited and talking. I expect the season ticket numbers to really skyrocket.

That is great to hear. Capacity there is around 3800, right?

Yep! Gonna be a fun year next year. Such a unique home court advantage.

Edit- Actually I think it's officially 3,500. Google has it wrong I believe.

I posted a couple months ago about Bakersfield attendance per game this year, and the numbers went up all season to sold out/near sell outs at the end. Fans definitely got behind the team and should be selling out next season every game not on academic break. Getting other California schools to come to Bakersfield, like Fresno State, is smart as well

Like Clarity and I were discussing a while back, it would be nice to see aftendance figures justify a return to Robobank Arena. I'm not sure how close we are to that, though. Downtown Bakersfield has rebounded in the last 10-15 years (after years of suburban flight) and has some nice restaurants for pregame meals now.

Regarding Icardo/campus, there is a new Hyatt hotel being built very near the campus' Stockdale entrance, so that's nice for visitors.

Currently mobile....away from the house or on "the throne."

Seattle attendance averages since rejoining D1

2010 - 3548
2011 - 4614
2012 - 2944
2013 - 2726 (joins WAC)
2014 - 2193
2015 - 2059
2016 - 1675
2017 - 1405

Dollar came into 2009-2010 with fans and excellent attendance numbers. Nevermind the fact this was a D1 Independent (SU had highest attendance average of all schools in reclassification each year they were, sometimes by over 2k). But he wasted all of it and left a mess for Hayford to fix. This program has plenty of potential and there shouldn't be any concern of fans. They will come back now that there is a new direction and hopefully wins

SU WAC attendance is due to poor marketing,bad teams, and local HS basketball players thinking SU is a D-2 school.

(05-05-2017 11:49 PM)Clarity Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 11:45 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(05-05-2017 11:41 PM)Clarity Wrote:  I would imagine the Icardo Center will be a near sellout every game this year. The NIT run really got this city excited and talking. I expect the season ticket numbers to really skyrocket.

That is great to hear. Capacity there is around 3800, right?

Yep! Gonna be a fun year next year. Such a unique home court advantage.

Edit- Actually I think it's officially 3,500. Google has it wrong I believe.

You also have to account for standing room. GCU lists its capacity at 7000, but we have had quite a few games in the past couple of years that have been close to 7500.