(04-27-2017 07:38 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Wright State may not have an athletics program for much longer.

Source?

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/lo...rd4mGD1iI/

(04-27-2017 07:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 03:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  KU is 40 miles from downtown Kansas City. 40% of the Kansas City metro is in Kansas along with most of the affluent suburbs. KU holds a big influence over the KC metro on both sides of the state.

I never said they didn't but a good UMKC team is a team for Kansas City, not the big state school down the road. Maybe I'm off my mark, I've never been to Kansas City, so maybe someone else can fill me in.

UMKC wouldn't move the needle much even if they were really good. Its a KU/MU/K-State town first, a Wichita St/Missouri St second tier and the D2's have a really strong presence since most of them are within a hour of the metro. UMKC is a commuter school for undergrad. It does have top notch post grad programs.

Division I only requires 14 sports. Perhaps Wright State should drop its swimming programs.

(04-27-2017 07:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/lo...rd4mGD1iI/

Thanks.

The Dayton news article shows Wright State only spends 3% of their budget on athletics compared to the NCAA published average of 6% for non-football schools.That article came out last July.

Just think in 2005 when SLU went to the A-10, if they would have joined the MVC the rumored #12 team was Western Kentucky with Butler the fallback.

(04-27-2017 10:21 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  The Dayton news article shows Wright State only spends 3% of their budget on athletics compared to the NCAA published average of 6% for non-football schools.That article came out last July.

A Wright State poster himself said they were in trouble and that they may not have sports for much longer. I'll take his word for it.

(04-27-2017 02:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 09:40 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UMKC deals with the same problems mentioned for the others in being overshadowed by a handful of schools.

UMKC has shown some progress, but they still have a long way to go. However, if they're adding Valpo and MSU, they may have to grab a western school to make some people happy. That's where Omaha and UMKC could come in to play.

I would buy that argument if UMKC was on the Kansas side of the river and had to compete with Kansas just down the road, let alone KSU or Wichita. As it is they only have to deal with Missouri and to a lesser extent Missouri State in other parts of the state and no NBA team. Kansas is a factor faintly only because they get media attention but few Missourians root for them because of the state rivalry pre-dating the Civil War, so UMKC could become something bigger if they ever became good.

My brother lived on the MO side of KC for a while. Kansas and Missouri may not like each other, but there are still loads of KU fans on that side of the border. And the KC metro as a whole is dominated by KU and MU. UMKC is a distant afterthought.

(04-27-2017 02:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Nothing against Milwaukee. But what people look at is the recent situation. And that is awful for Milwaukee. The fact that you have to dig into the deeper past, and make excuses for bad recent numbers and the recent compliance problem simply says to any examining conference it's probably a better strategy to wait a few years and see if Milwaukee gets it's house in order and starts delivering numbers that work.

From what I have heard Milwaukee is not in the running for a 2017-18 invite anyway, They would be considered for 2018-19. Which means Panther fans had better find their way back into the Arena or you can kiss the MVC goodbye.

Take it for what its worth. Panther insider says the MVC is going to 12. At least that is what they told the people at UWM. Valpo is a lock. Going into the process, the other three being considered, in order, were Murray State, Omaha and Milwaukee. No one else is being considered. Murray State cemented its position after the tour. Evidently, Omaha's tour didn't go well. It his belief that the MVC's opinion of Milwaukee was very positive after the tour. He thinks Milwaukee has passed up Omaha in the pecking order. Besides the media market, one reason Milwaukee is getting strong consideration is because the city produces a high number of mid-major players, who are recruiting targets for Valley schools.

Side note, UWM does play in the Arena. In fact, the Arena is now known as the UWM Panther Arena. Except for one season under an interim AD, they have played almost all their games there.

That would isolate Green Bay in the horizon. The d3 schools in the state of Wisconsin are misplaced, wonder if any jump or any in Minnesota to pair with Green Bay

MU88,

If they are going 12, Milwaukee is far better than Omaha. The numbers don't lie, they are not a good candidate -- not for location, but because U of Nebraska policy does not allow stranfers like the Wright State (Ohio ... same in Michigan and probably Wisconsin) of Institutional funds to athletics (actually it's a cap, no increases allowed, beyond inflation rate). So Omaha has to work with the budget they have and only increase spending when other revenue sources, such as ticket sales, and donations increase. This means they will never go out of business, but it also means they wont be able to expand the budgets to MVC level. Murray increased fees to cover the move, so they are financially solid without tapping into tax money.

I personally would be in favor of holding off for #12 until I actually see some performance progress from Milwaukee. They are 100% about potential to return to larger crowds. But when a program has a couple lean year and attendance falls that dramatically it is a very bad sign. It means you have a lot of "victory fans" rather than committed depth of support. Most years in a 12 team league, unless you emerge as one of the top 3 dogs -- odds are against that, you are going to have teams struggling. Poor attendance is a bad sign. The rule of thumb when selecting schools to join a conference is "what do they give me when they are 4-14" because that is your baseline; every school looks good when they are 14-4. So the argument "of when we are good we get crowds" is a red flag. That means students are fickle fans, a bad long term support sign.

This is of course the argument against having added LUC a few years ago, and most famously the B1G adding Rutgers. But at least in the B1G case the market access was real in terms of media benefit (media deals for BTN in NY & NJ) and recruiting zone (NJ recruits were quite numerous in the Michigan - Ohio State game). I don't think such benefits are real at the MVC level, especially when Milwaukee is basically a Chicago satellite city, which you already are based.

As a school in general I think UWM is a top add, will be the only R1 school in the league. But it's 100% a "they have potential" add right now, hoping they can return to glory and not a decade of mediocrity like we are seeing out of once great UNLV.

UIC is already there
Horizon is gonna have options

Wright State seems to have a disconnect somewhere in their financing. They have 17,500 students, and importantly 13,500 undergraduates for a $10.2m budget. That comes out to $750 per undergraduate.

They get decent crowds, average 4,500 per game, which at a minimum should bring in $1m in gate at $15 average for 16 games (that is a very low ball number, when you add concessions and parking). A school of that size should be able to generate $2m in donations to athletics, and they should be able to generate $1m in other sources (brand sales, league and NCAA distributions, etc). That would still leave $6m shortfall. Why don't they have and Intercollegiate Athletics fee like California schools? A $95 per semester fee on undergraduates, and a smaller fee on graduates ($25) would general $3m annually on their current enrollment. The article noted that athletics bring in $1.3m in tuition. That basically would cover 50% of the remaining budget hole. They just need a President and AD to get these things done.

This is a crisis created by not building non-tuition based funding sources. The state is totally in the right demanding that the program pay for itself. Ohio is shelling out $160m in tax money to finance Athletics, which is enough to fund a brand new University with 12,000 students (when you figure in tuition and other revenue to fill the budget). That is insane, and would be the equivalent of California spending $500m in tax money on IA. My childhood state needs get this situation reformed, cut that bill in half, by the measures I suggest for Wright State.

(04-27-2017 03:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  40% of the Kansas City metro is in Kansas along with most of the affluent suburbs.

Let me guess: Kansas has lower state income taxes, so people who work in KC build their McMansions over there.

(04-27-2017 08:17 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  UMKC wouldn't move the needle much even if they were really good. Its a KU/MU/K-State town first, a Wichita St/Missouri St second tier and the D2's have a really strong presence since most of them are within a hour of the metro. UMKC is a commuter school for undergrad. It does have top notch post grad programs.

(04-28-2017 09:37 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And the KC metro as a whole is dominated by KU and MU. UMKC is a distant afterthought.

Sure, fine ... but now compare that to UNO's situation in Omaha relative to Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa St, etc.


I'm baffled, frankly, how Omaha is getting a site visit while UMKC is not. Wonder if Missouri politics had something to do with it. Perhaps MVC asked MO St which one it wanted?

Nonetheless, think Omaha has about a zero percent chance of getting it. Almost like MVC just paying lip service to "due diligence" of not leaving MO St on an island.

(04-28-2017 12:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 03:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  40% of the Kansas City metro is in Kansas along with most of the affluent suburbs.

Let me guess: Kansas has lower state income taxes, so people who work in KC build their McMansions over there.

(04-27-2017 08:17 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  UMKC wouldn't move the needle much even if they were really good. Its a KU/MU/K-State town first, a Wichita St/Missouri St second tier and the D2's have a really strong presence since most of them are within a hour of the metro. UMKC is a commuter school for undergrad. It does have top notch post grad programs.

(04-28-2017 09:37 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And the KC metro as a whole is dominated by KU and MU. UMKC is a distant afterthought.

Sure, fine ... but now compare that to UNO's situation in Omaha relative to Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa St, etc.


I'm baffled, frankly, how Omaha is getting a site visit while UMKC is not. Wonder if Missouri politics had something to do with it. Perhaps MVC asked MO St which one it wanted?

Nonetheless, think Omaha has about a zero percent chance of getting it. Almost like MVC just paying lip service to "due diligence" of not leaving MO St on an island.

More like Kansas is where the suburbs are and Missouri is where the city is.

As for UMKC, maybe the Valley isn't interested. UMKC has never shown a pulse as long as I've been watching college sports.

But Omaha has??


I'm not trying to pump up UMKC higher than anything it is. I'm just saying: is Omaha really that much better than KC, when you consider how close they are and relative size of markets, that it warranted a site visit while UMKC did not??

UMKC got a visit last time. I'm guessing the MVC wasn't impressed and is completely skipping them this time. As far as Omaha, they're newer to D1 so I could see why the MVC might want to give them a look. If they see potential, they could pull the trigger. Last time, the MVC took a team that had been firmly planted in the bottom of their previous conference because of potential/money and the location. Nothing about Loyola was attractive from a results on the court standpoint.

As far as the border war, Kansas has lower business taxes now and a few businesses have moved from MO to KS to take advantage of that.

On one hand - I don't buy that a conference would waste its and a school's time with a "oh hey, heard you were new around here, mind if we have a look around?" visit.

On the other hand - as you say, UMKC already got a visit (supposedly, would like to see a link on that) ... so that I could buy as the reason they weren't visiting this time.



Neither UMKC or Omaha are MVC level schools. Just think its a waste with MO St probably already trying to figure out how to leave.

(04-28-2017 10:33 AM)bluesox Wrote:  That would isolate Green Bay in the horizon. The d3 schools in the state of Wisconsin are misplaced, wonder if any jump or any in Minnesota to pair with Green Bay

Whitewater.

It's our time.