(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

(04-23-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

It works in Houston's favor to be one centralized metropolitan area. All of the stadiums and attractions are "inside the Loop", and all but NRG Stadium/complex are downtown. There is much more identity with the area here. No matter where you live in this area (Katy, Sugar Land, Clear Lake, Cypress, The Woodlands, Kingwood, etc.), if asked, we say we live in "Houston".

In North Texas, it was quite an accomplishment to get all the cities on one page just to host one Super Bowl and one Final Four. There is and will always be a rivalry between Dallas and Fort Worth, among other cities. To tell someone from Fort Worth that they live in "Dallas" is an insult. Plus, the stadium is in Arlington, Tarrant County. Dallas is the largest, but not centralized city. Hence, all the pre-game events had to be spread out over multiple cities. This proved to be a logistical nightmare, especially when an ice storm hit during Super Bowl week, with the media staying in Dallas, players staying in Grapevine and Dallas, practice in Irving and Fort Worth, yeah, it was a mess.

With regards to bowl games, the Cotton Bowl is the traditional Dallas game now played in Arlington, with ties to the entire area. The Armed Forces Bowl is Fort Worth's bowl. The Heart of Dallas Bowl is the Dallas replacement for the Cotton Bowl. The Frisco game will be the Frisco/Collin County bowl. The area is that sprawling and decentralized. So, yes, there will be four bowl games in the same metro area, but they really draw upon three different sub-markets.

(04-23-2017 05:55 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

It works in Houston's favor to be one centralized metropolitan area. All of the stadiums and attractions are "inside the Loop", and all but NRG Stadium/complex are downtown. There is much more identity with the area here. No matter where you live in this area (Katy, Sugar Land, Clear Lake, Cypress, The Woodlands, Kingwood, etc.), if asked, we say we live in "Houston".

In North Texas, it was quite an accomplishment to get all the cities on one page just to host one Super Bowl and one Final Four. There is and will always be a rivalry between Dallas and Fort Worth, among other cities. To tell someone from Fort Worth that they live in "Dallas" is an insult. Plus, the stadium is in Arlington, Tarrant County. Dallas is the largest, but not centralized city. Hence, all the pre-game events had to be spread out over multiple cities. This proved to be a logistical nightmare, especially when an ice storm hit during Super Bowl week, with the media staying in Dallas, players staying in Grapevine and Dallas, practice in Irving and Fort Worth, yeah, it was a mess.

With regards to bowl games, the Cotton Bowl is the traditional Dallas game now played in Arlington, with ties to the entire area. The Armed Forces Bowl is Fort Worth's bowl. The Heart of Dallas Bowl is the Dallas replacement for the Cotton Bowl. The Frisco game will be the Frisco/Collin County bowl. The area is that sprawling and decentralized. So, yes, there will be four bowl games in the same metro area, but they really draw upon three different sub-markets.

The more I look at the numbers, 20K is really too small. After Miami, the next lowest attendance at an AAC bowl game was almost 27K. Miami (15K attendance) was an anomaly as it had 2 fan bases with an average attendance of under 20K each located an average of 1500 miles away from the bowl. That was a recipe for disaster. Frisco will likely never have that situation.

(04-23-2017 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The more I look at the numbers, 20K is really too small. After Miami, the next lowest attendance at an AAC bowl game was almost 27K. Miami (15K attendance) as an anomaly as it had 2 fan bases with an average attendance of under 20K each located an average of 1500 miles away from the bowl. That was a recipe for disaster. Frisco will likely never have that situation.

No, it won't. Not with 5 schools within driving distance, and playing a Sun Belt school in 2017 and 2019.

(04-23-2017 07:21 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The more I look at the numbers, 20K is really too small. After Miami, the next lowest attendance at an AAC bowl game was almost 27K. Miami (15K attendance) as an anomaly as it had 2 fan bases with an average attendance of under 20K each located an average of 1500 miles away from the bowl. That was a recipe for disaster. Frisco will likely never have that situation.

No, it won't. Not with 5 schools within driving distance, and playing a Sun Belt school in 2017 and 2019.

Arkansas State took 10k to 15k over multiple trips to Mobile. Frisco only five miles further away.
Really would have to have teams from AAC east and Sun Belt east or MAC to not get a full house at 20k

In addition to the bowl game, Frisco gets the Conference USA post-season basketball tournament for the next two years:

http://www.conferenceusa.com/news/2017/5...ement.aspx

The event will be at the new Cowboys facility. It holds 12,000 for football, with what looks like permanent seats. They'll have to come up with some kind of configuration for basketball.

(04-23-2017 05:55 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

It works in Houston's favor to be one centralized metropolitan area. All of the stadiums and attractions are "inside the Loop", and all but NRG Stadium/complex are downtown. There is much more identity with the area here. No matter where you live in this area (Katy, Sugar Land, Clear Lake, Cypress, The Woodlands, Kingwood, etc.), if asked, we say we live in "Houston".

In North Texas, it was quite an accomplishment to get all the cities on one page just to host one Super Bowl and one Final Four. There is and will always be a rivalry between Dallas and Fort Worth, among other cities. To tell someone from Fort Worth that they live in "Dallas" is an insult. Plus, the stadium is in Arlington, Tarrant County. Dallas is the largest, but not centralized city. Hence, all the pre-game events had to be spread out over multiple cities. This proved to be a logistical nightmare, especially when an ice storm hit during Super Bowl week, with the media staying in Dallas, players staying in Grapevine and Dallas, practice in Irving and Fort Worth, yeah, it was a mess.

With regards to bowl games, the Cotton Bowl is the traditional Dallas game now played in Arlington, with ties to the entire area. The Armed Forces Bowl is Fort Worth's bowl. The Heart of Dallas Bowl is the Dallas replacement for the Cotton Bowl. The Frisco game will be the Frisco/Collin County bowl. The area is that sprawling and decentralized. So, yes, there will be four bowl games in the same metro area, but they really draw upon three different sub-markets.

Excellent post. You have told it exactly like it is.

(04-23-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

All true. But none of that fixes the stadium size. 20K is tiny. Fricso is fine for last 3 years of the old Miami Bowl---but I don't think Frisco can be the long term answer if the bowl is to survive. The only way it might could work is if it becomes a Sunbelt vs MAC game. The SB teams (along with local interest) would typically fill most of the seats and the MAC wouldn't have to travel all that many to get to a sell out. Might work for the MW (not that MW teams don't travel well---but this would be pretty far from most of their fan bases).

(04-23-2017 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 05:55 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wonder why they didn't consider Houston. If they only needed 22K stadium, they could have used the EXACT same set up that Houston used for the Super Bowl. It could have been downtown at BBVA compass stadium with all events in the Convention center, a series of concerts in the downtown Discovery Green Park, with each team getting it's own new 1000 room hotel to stay in on either side of the park. The hotels and convention center all border the park. The stadium is walking distance from there. Once the bowl grew, they could move the game to TDECU that has 40K capacity and is accessible to the downtown Discovery Green complex via light rail. Lots of restaurants and clubs are also on or near Discovery Green Park as well. The theatre district is within walking distance and the Museum District can be reached via light rail. Keeping everyone in that small entertainment district would create a pretty fun atmosphere for the teams and fans. It worked great for the Super Bowl.

Houston handles events really well. That's a huge reason it was able to attract multiple Super Bowls and Final Fours.

In this case, I presume it's because ESPN Events already runs the Texas Bowl, and doesn't want to run a second bowl game in Houston. And, if the AAC intends to move their headquarters to Dallas, they would like to expand their presence there with a bowl game.

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

It works in Houston's favor to be one centralized metropolitan area. All of the stadiums and attractions are "inside the Loop", and all but NRG Stadium/complex are downtown. There is much more identity with the area here. No matter where you live in this area (Katy, Sugar Land, Clear Lake, Cypress, The Woodlands, Kingwood, etc.), if asked, we say we live in "Houston".

In North Texas, it was quite an accomplishment to get all the cities on one page just to host one Super Bowl and one Final Four. There is and will always be a rivalry between Dallas and Fort Worth, among other cities. To tell someone from Fort Worth that they live in "Dallas" is an insult. Plus, the stadium is in Arlington, Tarrant County. Dallas is the largest, but not centralized city. Hence, all the pre-game events had to be spread out over multiple cities. This proved to be a logistical nightmare, especially when an ice storm hit during Super Bowl week, with the media staying in Dallas, players staying in Grapevine and Dallas, practice in Irving and Fort Worth, yeah, it was a mess.

With regards to bowl games, the Cotton Bowl is the traditional Dallas game now played in Arlington, with ties to the entire area. The Armed Forces Bowl is Fort Worth's bowl. The Heart of Dallas Bowl is the Dallas replacement for the Cotton Bowl. The Frisco game will be the Frisco/Collin County bowl. The area is that sprawling and decentralized. So, yes, there will be four bowl games in the same metro area, but they really draw upon three different sub-markets.

The more I look at the numbers, 20K is really too small. After Miami, the next lowest attendance at an AAC bowl game was almost 27K. Miami (15K attendance) was an anomaly as it had 2 fan bases with an average attendance of under 20K each located an average of 1500 miles away from the bowl. That was a recipe for disaster. Frisco will likely never have that situation.

The date and time of the day the bowl was played didn't help the Miami Bowl either.

(04-23-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:34 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  .

The city planners really put a lot of thought into those big events. I think the AAC would like to link up with the HOD and Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas if the headquarters moves there as planned. I can easily see the Frisco Bowl becoming a CUSA bowl if that occurs.

I will take that swap.

Stick a fork in it.

@Ben_Baby 2h2 hours ago
More
Looks like ESPN/Frisco/FC Dallas will officially announce a new bowl game at Toyota Stadium tomorrow.

(05-22-2017 01:24 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  @Ben_Baby 2h2 hours ago
More
Looks like ESPN/Frisco/FC Dallas will officially announce a new bowl game at Toyota Stadium tomorrow.

Is this an AAC vs Sun Belt Match up? Or CUSA?

(05-22-2017 01:28 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 01:24 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  @Ben_Baby 2h2 hours ago
More
Looks like ESPN/Frisco/FC Dallas will officially announce a new bowl game at Toyota Stadium tomorrow.

Is this an AAC vs Sun Belt Match up? Or CUSA?

No idea. get to work and research it for us

(05-22-2017 01:29 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 01:28 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 01:24 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  @Ben_Baby 2h2 hours ago
More
Looks like ESPN/Frisco/FC Dallas will officially announce a new bowl game at Toyota Stadium tomorrow.

Is this an AAC vs Sun Belt Match up? Or CUSA?

No idea. get to work and research it for us

Its not really a "new" game. It's just the Miami Beach Bowl that ESPN purchased and moved.

I hope they keep the name:
"The Miami Beach Bowl .... in Frisco .... Texas"

(05-22-2017 09:15 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I hope they keep the name:
"The Miami Beach Bowl .... in Frisco .... Texas"

Yup something for everyone! If you love Miami Beaches and the Frisco Bay then let's meet right in the middle for the game!

(05-22-2017 01:28 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 01:24 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  @Ben_Baby 2h2 hours ago
More
Looks like ESPN/Frisco/FC Dallas will officially announce a new bowl game at Toyota Stadium tomorrow.

Is this an AAC vs Sun Belt Match up? Or CUSA?

2017: AAC vs Sun Belt
2018: AAC vs MAC
2019: AAC vs Sun Belt

Of course, Aresco tried to polish this turd-failure in sunny Miami:

"We are proud of the postseason opportunities that we have been able to provide to our student-athletes through our founding of the Miami Beach Bowl and we appreciate the relationships that we have built with the Miami Marlins, Marlins Park and the cities of Miami and Miami Beach," AAC commissioner Mike Aresco said in a statement.

"This transfer makes sense on so many levels. We are excited to enhance our overall relationship with ESPN and to continue our affiliation with the bowl."

(04-22-2017 06:17 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 08:19 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:13 PM)sctvman Wrote:  The Miami Beach Bowl is going away from Marlins Park, per @McMurphyESPN. It is likely headed to Frisco, TX.

https://twitter.com/mcmurphyespn/status/...9848376320

That would make four bowls in the DFW Metroplex, plus the FCS championship game:
Cotton - Arlington
Armed Forces - Fort Worth
Heart of Dallas - Dallas
Bowl Formerly Known as Miami Beach - Frisco

DFW isn't a bad location-I spent 14 years there. Centrally located (especially for these schools), easily accessible airport, great recruiting. The weather in December can be iffy, as it might be 60 degrees on game day, or there may be an ice storm. You don't go there for the weather.

Frisco turned from a small town to a suburb overnight, as it tends to happen in North Texas. It grew from a population of 6,000 in 1990 to 33,000 in 2000 to 160,000 today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisco,_Texas There are plenty of hotels and restaurants. The Rangers' AA farm club plays in a great ballpark next to the Dallas Stars practice facility. In addition, the Cowboys just opened their new practice facility there, The Star, complete with indoor stadium used by high schools. Frisco is not on the list of Top 10 vacation destinations, but it's fine for a lower-level bowl.

The FCS championship has done well there, especially when NDSU is in it with its horde of traveling fans. Toyota Stadium is fine for what this is. If ESPN wants to put on this game, and it's not going to be in Miami, why not Frisco? There are worse places.

Actually the average high for Dallas in December is about 60. (Actually 58). So it's just as likely to be 80 as it is to have an ice storm. There are only one or 2 freezing precipitation events per year so the chances of it happening on bowl day are very small...maybe a 1-2 percent chance or less. I have lived in North Texas before and have spent 20 years studying Texas weather patterns and most bowl games you'll be looking at a range of 48 or 50 on the low side to the 70s on a mild day. Being in the 30s in the middle of the day would be rare. Not unheard of but rare.

I think the point was, the weather in Dallas around New Year's is unpredictable. Volatile. It can be anywhere from 80 to 40, sunny or ice storm. So you don't go their for the weather.

As for the city, Greater Dallas is obviously a major metropolis and despite its sprawling nature there's no chance of getting bored there on a 5-day bowl trip. Plenty to do in all aspects of life with a big dollop of Texas culture.

The thing is, at that time of year, it's inferior to Miami, which has warm weather you can set your watch by, and the kind of tropical/beach entertainment people generally look for in winter. So in terms of location, it's inferior, no matter how many schools are close enough to drive there.

Besides, IMO, a bowl is supposed to be a "destination", someplace far away and exotic you have to fly to, that's part of what makes it fun for the students and alumni. It's not really a "reward" if it's around the corner. E.g., for most of the Big East/AAC, the St. Pete Bowl, despite the lousy stadium, was/is a fantastic destination because you get to go to sunny Florida when it's freezing up north. But for USF or UCF, it's like not going to a bowl at all.

So I hope that, counterintuitively, it's the USF's and UConn's that get sent to it, not the SMU's and Houston's.