(04-19-2017 01:18 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 09:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  The majority of everyday people in North Carolina supported HB2. The voters had already passed a constitutional amendment to the State Constitution that marriage only existed between a man and a women. This is America.

Rights are not subject to majority vote. They are guaranteed by the US Constitution. They are unalienable.

This is America.

In North Carolina, as in many, if not most, southern states, there is a fundamental disagreement about what America is. It is the same disagreement that existed before the Civil War, and it hasn't changed in all that time.

What North Carolina Republicans are saying is, essentially, that when they agreed to rejoin the Union after the Civil War, they had their fingers crossed when they promised to adhere to the conditions attached to that decision. They believe they should have the right to nullify Federal laws they don't like.

For many North Carolina conservatives, their state is a sovereign entity, that should only be loosely tied to other states in a confederation whose primary purposes are to defend the confederated states against foreign military threats and provide a uniform currency. They seem to believe that the only rights individuals should have are those that they can defend by force - either military, political or economic force.

The US Constitution was a difficult compromise, achieved largely by being vague enough on key issues that divided northern and southern states that both sides could argue that it supported their polar opposite positions. Those same arguments are being made today.

If we were to start from scratch today, and try to draft a new constitution, there is zero chance one could be crafted in a way that would ever be ratified by the states. So we are stuck with our current impasse, and unlikely to break it in the lifetimes of anyone alive today.

We are two Americas, and we will stay that way.

(04-20-2017 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  We are two Americas

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce.... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.
-- James Madison

America is a federal republic ...
those inalienable rights not defined are better left to the states ...
I defy y'all to find transgender bathroom use in the U.S. constitution ...
if one disapproves of a statute ...
amend it ...
or move ...

TAKE MATTERS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS

(04-20-2017 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  What North Carolina Republicans are saying is, essentially, that when they agreed to rejoin the Union after the Civil War, they had their fingers crossed when they promised to adhere to the conditions attached to that decision. They believe they should have the right to nullify Federal laws they don't like.

The Obama administration's directive that every public school provide transgender access -- or face the loss of federal funds -- drew swift and strong condemnation from conservatives, with one public official blasting it as presidential "blackmail."
-- foxnews

ONE-MAN RULE

(04-20-2017 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 01:18 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 09:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  The majority of everyday people in North Carolina supported HB2. The voters had already passed a constitutional amendment to the State Constitution that marriage only existed between a man and a women. This is America.

Rights are not subject to majority vote. They are guaranteed by the US Constitution. They are unalienable.

This is America.

In North Carolina, as in many, if not most, southern states, there is a fundamental disagreement about what America is. It is the same disagreement that existed before the Civil War, and it hasn't changed in all that time.

What North Carolina Republicans are saying is, essentially, that when they agreed to rejoin the Union after the Civil War, they had their fingers crossed when they promised to adhere to the conditions attached to that decision. They believe they should have the right to nullify Federal laws they don't like.

For many North Carolina conservatives, their state is a sovereign entity, that should only be loosely tied to other states in a confederation whose primary purposes are to defend the confederated states against foreign military threats and provide a uniform currency. They seem to believe that the only rights individuals should have are those that they can defend by force - either military, political or economic force.

The US Constitution was a difficult compromise, achieved largely by being vague enough on key issues that divided northern and southern states that both sides could argue that it supported their polar opposite positions. Those same arguments are being made today.

If we were to start from scratch today, and try to draft a new constitution, there is zero chance one could be crafted in a way that would ever be ratified by the states. So we are stuck with our current impasse, and unlikely to break it in the lifetimes of anyone alive today.

We are two Americas, and we will stay that way.

Agreed, we are two Americas and that will not change.

But, Appomattox put an end to "state's rights" forever. The Confederacy lost that war for all time, whether North Carolina conservatives want to acknowledge that or not.

"Fingers crossed" or not, they cannot nullify Federal law. That is a pipe dream.

(04-21-2017 08:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Agreed, we are two Americas and that will not change.

But, Appomattox put an end to "state's rights" forever. The Confederacy lost that war for all time, whether North Carolina conservatives want to acknowledge that or not.

"Fingers crossed" or not, they cannot nullify Federal law. That is a pipe dream.

that's news to big city mayors advocating for immigrant sanctuaries in defiance of federal law ...

FOREVER AND EVER AMEN

When one side "invents" the nuclear option and then rails against the other side for using it, we have problems.
When the chief executive picks and chooses which laws to enforce, we have problems.
When you start basing laws on "feelings" that are undefinable and could change on a whim, we have problems.
When you push change on a lot of folks too quickly, we have problems.
When courts make decisions that legalize actions that many citizens find sinful, morally reprehensible, and criminal, we have problems.