The Shockers are headed to the AAC for all sports except football in the 2017-2018 season. They are leaving the Missouri Valley conference.

Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Wichita has consistently sold out its on campus 10,000+ arena. It has also played some big opponents at the downtown venue that seats 15,000+, selling that out. The Shockers have one of the best records in college baskets over the past 6-7 seasons. It has a National Championship, recent Final Four Appearance, had a 3 point loss to Kentucky in the 2nd round of the tournament this year. The way the NCAA distributes Big Dance $$$ to Conferences is based on the #of its teams and the #of NCAA Championship tournament games they play, Wichita State is potentially a big money maker for the AAC. It can mean millions per Big Dance games that Wichita State would make for the AAC. Like my dad would ask me-"So, what are you bringing to the table?"

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Ha! Go,to the MAC boards- you'll find everything from BG dropping to NAIA to EMU to the Big Ten speculation!

(04-08-2017 06:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Ha! Go,to the MAC boards- you'll find everything from BG dropping to NAIA to EMU to the Big Ten speculation!

I heard BGSUX was moving to the TAAC.

(04-08-2017 06:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Wichita has consistently sold out its on campus 10,000+ arena. It has also played some big opponents at the downtown venue that seats 15,000+, selling that out. The Shockers have one of the best records in college baskets over the past 6-7 seasons. It has a National Championship, recent Final Four Appearance, had a 3 point loss to Kentucky in the 2nd round of the tournament this year. The way the NCAA distributes Big Dance $$$ to Conferences is based on the #of its teams and the #of NCAA Championship tournament games they play, Wichita State is potentially a big money maker for the AAC. It can mean millions per Big Dance games that Wichita State would make for the AAC. Like my dad would ask me-"So, what are you bringing to the table?"

Exactly. And Toledo fans may as well stop thinking about dreaming to strive to come close to believing that we might some day come close enough to even smell this level of success. Time to lock this thread and delete it.

(04-08-2017 06:56 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Wichita has consistently sold out its on campus 10,000+ arena. It has also played some big opponents at the downtown venue that seats 15,000+, selling that out. The Shockers have one of the best records in college baskets over the past 6-7 seasons. It has a National Championship, recent Final Four Appearance, had a 3 point loss to Kentucky in the 2nd round of the tournament this year. The way the NCAA distributes Big Dance $$$ to Conferences is based on the #of its teams and the #of NCAA Championship tournament games they play, Wichita State is potentially a big money maker for the AAC. It can mean millions per Big Dance games that Wichita State would make for the AAC. Like my dad would ask me-"So, what are you bringing to the table?"

Exactly. And Toledo fans may as well stop thinking about dreaming to strive to come close to believing that we might some day come close enough to even smell this level of success. Time to lock this thread and delete it.

You might see a new Conference form from the better G5 programs for FB. Basketball success is more of a matter of talent. Plenty of small schools have been successful. Not unreasonable to expect the Rockets to field a team that could make it to the Sweet 16 at some point. Just got to
keep striving to improve in all aspects of the University and its athletic programs. Hope some of that will rub off on the City.

(04-08-2017 06:49 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Ha! Go,to the MAC boards- you'll find everything from BG dropping to NAIA to EMU to the Big Ten speculation!

I heard BGSUX was moving to the TAAC.

(04-08-2017 06:56 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 06:09 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Can't be. We've been informed on this board that expansion is over and this conversation is moot. Besides, this isn't pertinent to Toledo because we'll never be good enough to be considered for expansion.

Wichita has consistently sold out its on campus 10,000+ arena. It has also played some big opponents at the downtown venue that seats 15,000+, selling that out. The Shockers have one of the best records in college baskets over the past 6-7 seasons. It has a National Championship, recent Final Four Appearance, had a 3 point loss to Kentucky in the 2nd round of the tournament this year. The way the NCAA distributes Big Dance $$$ to Conferences is based on the #of its teams and the #of NCAA Championship tournament games they play, Wichita State is potentially a big money maker for the AAC. It can mean millions per Big Dance games that Wichita State would make for the AAC. Like my dad would ask me-"So, what are you bringing to the table?"

Exactly. And Toledo fans may as well stop thinking about dreaming to strive to come close to believing that we might some day come close enough to even smell this level of success. Time to lock this thread and delete it.

Yeah, but we need to get kicked out of the MAC first, to achieve greatness ...
Maybe instead of trying to get kicked out of the MAC, DOMINATE it first...

(04-07-2017 10:33 PM)Terry Wrote:  The Shockers are headed to the AAC for all sports except football in the 2017-2018 season. They are leaving the Missouri Valley conference.

Congrats to the Shockers. Obviously MBB punched their ticket and I suspect in a year or if they have to revenue to beef up their FB that program will also have an inside track with the AAC. Without looking up their record I'll bet that their MBB has been setting fire to the NCAA during the past decade and are infinately far removed from facing a fast approaching forty year drought as are the Rockets.

Understandably most fans focus on football when then talk about (or more to the point, dream about) "moving up" to a better conference, but in reality the secret is usually the MBB program. Actually this is not so secret if you look at the data logically and focus on the MBB rather than FB. Do that and you will find that the ticket to a better conference has usually been a successful MBB program (where "successful" = fairly regular NCAA Tourney appearances) NOT the quality of their FB program.It certainly worked for Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, Tulsa, Temple (post MAC) and others. The NCAA Tourney has tremendous revenue potential---and college sports, like everything else is all (only?) the money.
At about $1.5 million PER GAME paid out over six year (the last time I looked it up a year or so ago0, why do you think those 16-14 type "majors" gobble up all the at-large selections come tourney time???

But as far as "moving up" conference wise, of course there are always a few outliers that are selected because of reason other than just MBB potential. Examples include super potential (only UCF, SFU come to mind) or a phenomenal FB program (Boise St is only program I can think of that ever got its ticket punched solely because of football---no wonder "being the next Boise State is the ultimate dream of every G5 FB fan or team with an once of ambition) or other "unique" qualities such as being one of the military academies.

(04-09-2017 06:33 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 10:33 PM)Terry Wrote:  The Shockers are headed to the AAC for all sports except football in the 2017-2018 season. They are leaving the Missouri Valley conference.

Congrats to the Shockers. Obviously MBB punched their ticket and I suspect in a year or if they have to revenue to beef up their FB that program will also have an inside track with the AAC. Without looking up their record I'll bet that their MBB has been setting fire to the NCAA during the past decade and are infinately far removed from facing a fast approaching forty year drought as are the Rockets.

Understandably most fans focus on football when then talk about (or more to the point, dream about) "moving up" to a better conference, but in reality the secret is usually the MBB program. Actually this is not so secret if you look at the data logically and focus on the MBB rather than FB. Do that and you will find that the ticket to a better conference has usually been a successful MBB program (where "successful" = fairly regular NCAA Tourney appearances) NOT the quality of their FB program.It certainly worked for Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, Tulsa, Temple (post MAC) and others.The NCAA Tourney has tremendous revenue potential which the "majors" completely dominate the at-large selections--don't want to waste valuable slots on the undeserving riff-raff.

Of course there are always a few outliers that are selected because of some other reason such as super potential (only UCF, SFU come to mind) or a phenomenal FB program (Boise St is only program I can think of that ever got its ticket punched solely because of football---no wonder "being the next Boise State is the ultimate dream of every G5 FB fan or team with an once of ambition) or other "unique" qualities such as the military academies.

I can think of one other team that moved up based solely on potential and that is Rutgers. Boise is the one exception to your "basketball drives athletics" theory although the Big East fell apart before they moved up. The old Metro Conference didn't have football when it was formed. South Carolina and Florida State left the Metro. The SEC was more of a football conference so maybe USC was a school with that potential. The ACC was and is a basketball conference so maybe FSU is one of those exceptions. Conference changes that followed during that time were driven mainly by basketball. I agree that basketball is probably the key to upgrading athletics status.
I hope Coach K can continue to elevate the level of play and if he does, it might not matter the conference we play in. However, when you're struggling in a basketball game, sometimes you make a change such as calling timeout or switching to a zone in order to disrupt the direction of things. Toledo's aren't the only fans of a MAC team that feel the conference has stagnated and we're holding each other back. When I remember what the campus was like when we played in the old Field House and the unrenovated Glass Bowl and I think of the progress that has been made everywhere except on-field and on-court, it's very frustrating experiencing that incongruence.

(04-09-2017 09:28 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 06:33 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 10:33 PM)Terry Wrote:  The Shockers are headed to the AAC for all sports except football in the 2017-2018 season. They are leaving the Missouri Valley conference.

Congrats to the Shockers. Obviously MBB punched their ticket and I suspect in a year or if they have to revenue to beef up their FB that program will also have an inside track with the AAC. Without looking up their record I'll bet that their MBB has been setting fire to the NCAA during the past decade and are infinately far removed from facing a fast approaching forty year drought as are the Rockets.

Understandably most fans focus on football when then talk about (or more to the point, dream about) "moving up" to a better conference, but in reality the secret is usually the MBB program. Actually this is not so secret if you look at the data logically and focus on the MBB rather than FB. Do that and you will find that the ticket to a better conference has usually been a successful MBB program (where "successful" = fairly regular NCAA Tourney appearances) NOT the quality of their FB program.It certainly worked for Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, Tulsa, Temple (post MAC) and others.The NCAA Tourney has tremendous revenue potential which the "majors" completely dominate the at-large selections--don't want to waste valuable slots on the undeserving riff-raff.

Of course there are always a few outliers that are selected because of some other reason such as super potential (only UCF, SFU come to mind) or a phenomenal FB program (Boise St is only program I can think of that ever got its ticket punched solely because of football---no wonder "being the next Boise State is the ultimate dream of every G5 FB fan or team with an once of ambition) or other "unique" qualities such as the military academies.

I can think of one other team that moved up based solely on potential and that is Rutgers. Boise is the one exception to your "basketball drives athletics" theory although the Big East fell apart before they moved up. The old Metro Conference didn't have football when it was formed. South Carolina and Florida State left the Metro. The SEC was more of a football conference so maybe USC was a school with that potential. The ACC was and is a basketball conference so maybe FSU is one of those exceptions. Conference changes that followed during that time were driven mainly by basketball. I agree that basketball is probably the key to upgrading athletics status.
I hope Coach K can continue to elevate the level of play and if he does, it might not matter the conference we play in. However, when you're struggling in a basketball game, sometimes you make a change such as calling timeout or switching to a zone in order to disrupt the direction of things. Toledo's aren't the only fans of a MAC team that feel the conference has stagnated and we're holding each other back. When I remember what the campus was like when we played in the old Field House and the unrenovated Glass Bowl and I think of the progress that has been made everywhere except on-field and on-court, it's very frustrating experiencing that incongruence.

Rutgers move up was much less due to the sports teams potential, as it was to the NYC/New Jersey TV market, and the Billion dollar endowment.

(04-09-2017 10:43 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 09:28 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 06:33 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 10:33 PM)Terry Wrote:  The Shockers are headed to the AAC for all sports except football in the 2017-2018 season. They are leaving the Missouri Valley conference.

Congrats to the Shockers. Obviously MBB punched their ticket and I suspect in a year or if they have to revenue to beef up their FB that program will also have an inside track with the AAC. Without looking up their record I'll bet that their MBB has been setting fire to the NCAA during the past decade and are infinately far removed from facing a fast approaching forty year drought as are the Rockets.

Understandably most fans focus on football when then talk about (or more to the point, dream about) "moving up" to a better conference, but in reality the secret is usually the MBB program. Actually this is not so secret if you look at the data logically and focus on the MBB rather than FB. Do that and you will find that the ticket to a better conference has usually been a successful MBB program (where "successful" = fairly regular NCAA Tourney appearances) NOT the quality of their FB program.It certainly worked for Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, Tulsa, Temple (post MAC) and others.The NCAA Tourney has tremendous revenue potential which the "majors" completely dominate the at-large selections--don't want to waste valuable slots on the undeserving riff-raff.

Of course there are always a few outliers that are selected because of some other reason such as super potential (only UCF, SFU come to mind) or a phenomenal FB program (Boise St is only program I can think of that ever got its ticket punched solely because of football---no wonder "being the next Boise State is the ultimate dream of every G5 FB fan or team with an once of ambition) or other "unique" qualities such as the military academies.

I can think of one other team that moved up based solely on potential and that is Rutgers. Boise is the one exception to your "basketball drives athletics" theory although the Big East fell apart before they moved up. The old Metro Conference didn't have football when it was formed. South Carolina and Florida State left the Metro. The SEC was more of a football conference so maybe USC was a school with that potential. The ACC was and is a basketball conference so maybe FSU is one of those exceptions. Conference changes that followed during that time were driven mainly by basketball. I agree that basketball is probably the key to upgrading athletics status.
I hope Coach K can continue to elevate the level of play and if he does, it might not matter the conference we play in. However, when you're struggling in a basketball game, sometimes you make a change such as calling timeout or switching to a zone in order to disrupt the direction of things. Toledo's aren't the only fans of a MAC team that feel the conference has stagnated and we're holding each other back. When I remember what the campus was like when we played in the old Field House and the unrenovated Glass Bowl and I think of the progress that has been made everywhere except on-field and on-court, it's very frustrating experiencing that incongruence.

Rutgers move up was much less due to the sports teams potential, as it was to the NYC/New Jersey TV market, and the Billion dollar endowment.

I interpreted potential to mean bringing that media market because I don't see UCF or South Florida to bring anything else.

(04-09-2017 11:04 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:43 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 09:28 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 06:33 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 10:33 PM)Terry Wrote:  The Shockers are headed to the AAC for all sports except football in the 2017-2018 season. They are leaving the Missouri Valley conference.

Congrats to the Shockers. Obviously MBB punched their ticket and I suspect in a year or if they have to revenue to beef up their FB that program will also have an inside track with the AAC. Without looking up their record I'll bet that their MBB has been setting fire to the NCAA during the past decade and are infinately far removed from facing a fast approaching forty year drought as are the Rockets.

Understandably most fans focus on football when then talk about (or more to the point, dream about) "moving up" to a better conference, but in reality the secret is usually the MBB program. Actually this is not so secret if you look at the data logically and focus on the MBB rather than FB. Do that and you will find that the ticket to a better conference has usually been a successful MBB program (where "successful" = fairly regular NCAA Tourney appearances) NOT the quality of their FB program.It certainly worked for Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, Tulsa, Temple (post MAC) and others.The NCAA Tourney has tremendous revenue potential which the "majors" completely dominate the at-large selections--don't want to waste valuable slots on the undeserving riff-raff.

Of course there are always a few outliers that are selected because of some other reason such as super potential (only UCF, SFU come to mind) or a phenomenal FB program (Boise St is only program I can think of that ever got its ticket punched solely because of football---no wonder "being the next Boise State is the ultimate dream of every G5 FB fan or team with an once of ambition) or other "unique" qualities such as the military academies.

I can think of one other team that moved up based solely on potential and that is Rutgers. Boise is the one exception to your "basketball drives athletics" theory although the Big East fell apart before they moved up. The old Metro Conference didn't have football when it was formed. South Carolina and Florida State left the Metro. The SEC was more of a football conference so maybe USC was a school with that potential. The ACC was and is a basketball conference so maybe FSU is one of those exceptions. Conference changes that followed during that time were driven mainly by basketball. I agree that basketball is probably the key to upgrading athletics status.
I hope Coach K can continue to elevate the level of play and if he does, it might not matter the conference we play in. However, when you're struggling in a basketball game, sometimes you make a change such as calling timeout or switching to a zone in order to disrupt the direction of things. Toledo's aren't the only fans of a MAC team that feel the conference has stagnated and we're holding each other back. When I remember what the campus was like when we played in the old Field House and the unrenovated Glass Bowl and I think of the progress that has been made everywhere except on-field and on-court, it's very frustrating experiencing that incongruence.

Rutgers move up was much less due to the sports teams potential, as it was to the NYC/New Jersey TV market, and the Billion dollar endowment.

I interpreted potential to mean bringing that media market because I don't see UCF or South Florida to bring anything else.

The #11 and #18 media markets. UCF has the largest main campus enrollment of any US University 64,318. USF is the 4th largest University in Florida with an enrollment of 49,591.

(04-09-2017 12:15 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 11:04 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:43 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 09:28 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 06:33 AM)T-Town Wrote:  Congrats to the Shockers. Obviously MBB punched their ticket and I suspect in a year or if they have to revenue to beef up their FB that program will also have an inside track with the AAC. Without looking up their record I'll bet that their MBB has been setting fire to the NCAA during the past decade and are infinately far removed from facing a fast approaching forty year drought as are the Rockets.

Understandably most fans focus on football when then talk about (or more to the point, dream about) "moving up" to a better conference, but in reality the secret is usually the MBB program. Actually this is not so secret if you look at the data logically and focus on the MBB rather than FB. Do that and you will find that the ticket to a better conference has usually been a successful MBB program (where "successful" = fairly regular NCAA Tourney appearances) NOT the quality of their FB program.It certainly worked for Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, Tulsa, Temple (post MAC) and others.The NCAA Tourney has tremendous revenue potential which the "majors" completely dominate the at-large selections--don't want to waste valuable slots on the undeserving riff-raff.

Of course there are always a few outliers that are selected because of some other reason such as super potential (only UCF, SFU come to mind) or a phenomenal FB program (Boise St is only program I can think of that ever got its ticket punched solely because of football---no wonder "being the next Boise State is the ultimate dream of every G5 FB fan or team with an once of ambition) or other "unique" qualities such as the military academies.

I can think of one other team that moved up based solely on potential and that is Rutgers. Boise is the one exception to your "basketball drives athletics" theory although the Big East fell apart before they moved up. The old Metro Conference didn't have football when it was formed. South Carolina and Florida State left the Metro. The SEC was more of a football conference so maybe USC was a school with that potential. The ACC was and is a basketball conference so maybe FSU is one of those exceptions. Conference changes that followed during that time were driven mainly by basketball. I agree that basketball is probably the key to upgrading athletics status.
I hope Coach K can continue to elevate the level of play and if he does, it might not matter the conference we play in. However, when you're struggling in a basketball game, sometimes you make a change such as calling timeout or switching to a zone in order to disrupt the direction of things. Toledo's aren't the only fans of a MAC team that feel the conference has stagnated and we're holding each other back. When I remember what the campus was like when we played in the old Field House and the unrenovated Glass Bowl and I think of the progress that has been made everywhere except on-field and on-court, it's very frustrating experiencing that incongruence.

Rutgers move up was much less due to the sports teams potential, as it was to the NYC/New Jersey TV market, and the Billion dollar endowment.

I interpreted potential to mean bringing that media market because I don't see UCF or South Florida to bring anything else.

The #11 and #18 media markets. UCF has the largest main campus enrollment of any US University 64,318. USF is the 4th largest University in Florida with an enrollment of 49,591.

I shouldn't say that they don't bring anything else. I meant that their media markets were a big factor.

Toledo played a role in why WSU dropped football. We beat them in 1985 at WSU by a touchdown in front of 20,000 and can remember their coach stating "these are the teams we should beat if we are who we think we are".

The following year they came to a packed Glass Bowl with what they thought was a loaded roster, Auburn transfer tailback, and got their bell rung 30 to 13 if I recall. After the game either their AD or Head coach said the the same thing and the next year I believe they dropped football. That QB ended up transferring to WMU and beat us the next year 21 14 at WMU. Oh the memories