Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
DexterDevil Offline
DCTID
*

Posts: 5,008
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 218
I Root For: EMU, DCFC
Location: Jackson, Mi
Post: #41
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
We don't need any more schools, certainly not from Illinois, if we had to go after two schools I'd prefer James Madison and Northern Iowa.
04-06-2017 01:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kittonhead Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,000
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 122
I Root For: Beat Matisse
Location:
Post: #42
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-05-2017 11:05 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-05-2017 10:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(04-05-2017 02:24 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Missouri St, ILL St, Loyola-Chi, UW-Mill,
I like that move, only top 5 mid-majors get at-large bids
takes MVC out & puts MAC in postion

Helps the MAC with its Olympic sports too. ...
What does "help" mean here? Does it give an increased chance of at-large bids in any of those sports?

None of this appears to be more than proposing conference expansion for the joy of throwing possible alignments around.

How about curiosity on my part as to how many MAC sports have less than 12 participants?

I guess if you want a lean MAC, follow MAC Baseball with only 10 participants moving forward.

If you want a power conference, try MAC Wrestling or NCHC Hockey.

MAC Football most would agree is fine at 12 for what its worth as a G5 league.

MAC Basketball is frustrating but has a real opportunity to improve relative to the Horizon and MVC.
04-06-2017 06:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
templefootballfan Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,615
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 162
I Root For: TU & BGSU & TEX
Location: CLAYMONT DE Temple T
Post: #43
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
bussiness expand
conf are bussiness
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2017 07:54 AM by templefootballfan.)
04-06-2017 07:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
kreed5120 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,096
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 54
I Root For: Akron
Location:
Post: #44
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-06-2017 07:03 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  bussiness expand
conf are bussiness

Businesses look to maximize profits. Splitting the size pie more ways doesn't do that.
04-06-2017 08:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Schadenfreude Offline
Professional Tractor Puller
*

Posts: 9,634
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation: 238
I Root For: Bowling Green
Location: Colorado

CrappiesCrappiesCrappies
Post: #45
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
The MAC is an FBS conference. The Missouri Valley is not, and the conferences they are likely to try to raid are also not.

Given this fact, it's hard to see how a change in the Missouri Valley creates an opportunity for the MAC or affects the MAC at all, really.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2017 11:11 AM by Schadenfreude.)
04-06-2017 11:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PK_UToledo Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 94
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Toledo, Lamar
Location:
Post: #46
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
I don't see any change in MAC membership any time soon. They survived the past couple realignments intact, and will likely do it again. None of the non-football schools will be added. With the exception of Wichita State and UConn hoops, realignment is about football. Others on here are saying they don't want an FBS upgrade, such as Missouri State. The only FBS programs adjacent to our footprint to express a potential football upgrade are Eastern Kentucky and James Madison. Liberty is moving up, but I really don't want to see them fit (cultural mismatch). Since none of these schools are MVC schools, I would say the MAC won't be raiding that conference for new members.
04-06-2017 08:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kittonhead Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,000
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 122
I Root For: Beat Matisse
Location:
Post: #47
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
I'm confident the MAC would continue to have the luxury of plucking MVC/Horizon if they wanted to in the future regardless of the moves that are happening right now.

No real reason to move on it immediately. But there could be potential there.
04-06-2017 10:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
templefootballfan Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,615
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 162
I Root For: TU & BGSU & TEX
Location: CLAYMONT DE Temple T
Post: #48
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
no, you go for the kill
all these pres & AD gotta be thinking,
what can we do to come out on top
inviting UMKC is not coming out on top
ending up in div 1 FB conf & moving up conf ladder
is coming out on top
04-06-2017 11:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,103
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 760
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #49
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-06-2017 11:30 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  no, you go for the kill ...
No, you don't "go for the kill", because there is no bonus for being the "highest ranked single bid conference". There's no benefit to the schools in the MAC in pretending that conference realignment is another NCAA tournament with a single winner at the end ... only costs.
04-07-2017 12:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
emu steve Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 39,474
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation: 83
I Root For: EMU / MAC
Location: DMV - D.C. area
Post: #50
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-02-2017 09:43 AM)axeme Wrote:  The A10 is the Midwest version of the A10. Look at how many A10 schools are inside the MAC footprint.

If you want that level of basketball, drop BCS football and put the money into hoops like they have. Until you want to match the basketball resources/budget of UD and Xavier (to say nothing of UC), the MAC schools will be very, well, MAC-like.

There is not some geographic niche in the Midwest for the MAC to fill. The A10, Big East and American have enough schools inside the MAC footprint to do that. The American is the FBS competitor of the lot. Again, MAC schools need to match the basketball commitment of those schools if it wants to improve. It's not that complicated.

I agree.

As I have posted in various threads, I believe when Marshall came on board and the MAC got a sniff of what it is like to have football success (Marshall was pretty good, I think we all acknowledge) then MBB suffered as resources were diverted to football.

In an era of tight money, we are to the old political argument of 'guns vs. butter' or in this case football vs. basketball.

We just need to look at the coaches salaries and program budgets for MAC MBB vs. AAC, A-10, etc.

I'm tossing out wild numbers, but I guess the typical MAC MBB's budget might need to be increased on the order of say 750k - 1M to allow the ADs and HCs to do what they would like to do.

E.g., double the salary for the head coaches, each school toss in say extra 250K for guarantee home game payouts, etc.

BTW, on this business of home and homes: EMU is playing home and home with Long Beach State. That is a money loser for us (and them too?). How much does one think the home gate for that game was (EMU hosted in late December)? Does it cover the costs of the return game visit to So. Cal? Of course not, Did EMU net say 50K for that home game? (answer is not even close).

For EMU it makes more (dollars and) sense to play money road games (e.g., Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, etc.) which might pay 75 - 100K and play NAIA home games which cost 10K.

The cost of a typical low major opponent might be say 75K. Is it worth that for EMU to host SUNY-Binghamton or Cornell or Army or whomever?
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 05:27 AM by emu steve.)
04-07-2017 05:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kittonhead Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,000
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 122
I Root For: Beat Matisse
Location:
Post: #51
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
They moved the bar for getting into the NCAA tournament. That's what happened.

If they change the formula again to something more fair it would benefit the MAC.

There is the consistent 2 bid level but there is also the level of 1 bid but legit bubble teams. That is the level the MAC was on back in the 90's. If the MAC could get back to where it was at least that would be great.
04-07-2017 06:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
templefootballfan Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,615
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 162
I Root For: TU & BGSU & TEX
Location: CLAYMONT DE Temple T
Post: #52
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
you expand to make more money,
bigger tv market, bigger footprint=more money, more appearance
more schools, raises the bar faster, more competion, more bids & bowls
attendence goes up, more money, travell might go down, more money
then student apps & donations go up, more money
raise the bar high enough, p5 schools start to visit, more money
your spend money to make money
04-07-2017 03:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,103
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 760
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #53
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-07-2017 03:57 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  you expand to make more money, ...
Doing that requires additions that increase the amount of money per school.

Without that, the argument about the benefits of getting more money from expansion are fairy tales rather than an action plan.
04-07-2017 11:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
templefootballfan Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,615
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 162
I Root For: TU & BGSU & TEX
Location: CLAYMONT DE Temple T
Post: #54
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
right, increase money per school
20% in tv money
33% atten for BB tourn
need to get people to CCG for FB
5% increase atten for season
more bowls & bids
donations are up
travell down
exposure is priceless
then grow from there
04-08-2017 01:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,103
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 760
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-08-2017 01:21 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  right, increase money per school
20% in tv money
There's no reason to believe that TV money would increase at all. That would be -$119K per school for a two school all-sports expansion. If the MAC got a pro-rata increase, that would by definition by $0 extra per school. A 20% increase would only be a 2.4% increase per school, and you give no reason to believe there would be a 20% increase in the recently extended ESPN contract which runs into the next decade.

Quote: 33% atten for BB tourn
BB Tournament attendence is not a big revenue earner for the conference, so a 33% increase, which is simply assumed without argument, is also not a big deal.

Quote: need to get people to CCG for FB
That depends on who is at the CCG. No reason to expect that any of the speculated FCS call-ups would be there before the 2020's.

Quote: 5% increase atten for season
Who gets it, and how? Show your work.

Quote: more bowls & bids
For any of the speculated FCS call-ups or realistic Olympic-sports adds, the immediate impact on bowls and bids seems likely to be 0, so no money or impact on conference status from that direction.

Quote: donations are up
Why? Show your work.

Quote: travell down
Why? Show your work.

Quote: exposure is priceless
How does whatever alignment you are proposing increase exposure in any substantial way?

Quote: then grow from there
This is starting with fantasy BS and then assuming that the schools will take it from there.
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2017 05:23 AM by BruceMcF.)
04-08-2017 05:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,999
Joined: Sep 2010
Reputation: 80
I Root For: Baritones
Location: The Euphonistan Tree
Post: #56
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
Spending more to make more only makes sense if what you are spending on actually helps you otherwise you are throwing money away. You see that in private enterprise all the time where a company throws money at something and it ends up being a big flop. Sometimes it can even kill a company so if you are going to go out on a limb you need to be reasonably sure that it has a chance to work and not just throw money just on the off chance it might work.
04-08-2017 11:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OhioBobcatJohn Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,605
Joined: Jul 2010
Reputation: 49
I Root For: Ohio
Location:
Post: #57
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
Youngstown State, Marshall, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Indiana State for 18 team MAC split into two nine team divisions. Play round robin in division in hoops. 8 division games in football. Non-division games would be treated like non-conference games. top six get 1st round bye, top 4 get bye to quarters in hoops. With extra round in hoops tournament the MAC would be able to have a tournament like the ACC where they got 5 days of games in a row and raise the profile of the tournament. With football having 18 teams might give them more seats at the table with bowl games. They would probable have 6-9 bowl eligible teams every year.

MAC East
Buffalo
Youngstown State
Kent State
Akron
Ohio
Miami
Bowling Green
Toledo
Marshall

MAC West
Ball State
Indiana State
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
04-08-2017 02:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
utpotts Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,969
Joined: Oct 2004
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Toledo
Location: Canal Winchester, OH
Post: #58
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-08-2017 02:35 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Youngstown State, Marshall, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Indiana State for 18 team MAC split into two nine team divisions. Play round robin in division in hoops. 8 division games in football. Non-division games would be treated like non-conference games. top six get 1st round bye, top 4 get bye to quarters in hoops. With extra round in hoops tournament the MAC would be able to have a tournament like the ACC where they got 5 days of games in a row and raise the profile of the tournament. With football having 18 teams might give them more seats at the table with bowl games. They would probable have 6-9 bowl eligible teams every year.

MAC East
Buffalo
Youngstown State
Kent State
Akron
Ohio
Miami
Bowling Green
Toledo
Marshall

MAC West
Ball State
Indiana State
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

[Image: d0374478557798edfc964afd006512de457207f7...d73578.jpg]
04-08-2017 02:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stay Cool Offline
The Masked Moderator
*

Posts: 8,218
Joined: Feb 2015
Reputation: 221
I Root For: NIU, tOSU, UC
Location: Dekalb, IL
Post: #59
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-08-2017 02:48 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 02:35 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Youngstown State, Marshall, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Indiana State for 18 team MAC split into two nine team divisions. Play round robin in division in hoops. 8 division games in football. Non-division games would be treated like non-conference games. top six get 1st round bye, top 4 get bye to quarters in hoops. With extra round in hoops tournament the MAC would be able to have a tournament like the ACC where they got 5 days of games in a row and raise the profile of the tournament. With football having 18 teams might give them more seats at the table with bowl games. They would probable have 6-9 bowl eligible teams every year.

MAC East
Buffalo
Youngstown State
Kent State
Akron
Ohio
Miami
Bowling Green
Toledo
Marshall

MAC West
Ball State
Indiana State
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

[Image: d0374478557798edfc964afd006512de457207f7...d73578.jpg]
Was this before or after the pudding pop roofies for all conference members?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
04-08-2017 11:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,103
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 760
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #60
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)?
(04-08-2017 02:35 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  MAC East
Buffalo
Youngstown State
Kent State
Akron
Ohio
Miami
Bowling Green
Toledo
Marshall

MAC West
Ball State
Indiana State
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
So ... Kent State trades being in a football conference with CMU, WMU, Northern Illinois to being in a football conference with Youngstown State and Marshall?

{Except that would be Marshall's FCS-call-up replacement in this system, since Marshall would never go for it.}

Among current MAC Eastern Division schools, I predict Kent State, Akron, Buffalo, OhioU, MiamiU and Bowling Green vote no.
04-09-2017 01:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.