(03-24-2017 04:18 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 04:01 PM)BK#14 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 03:31 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 01:29 PM)BK#14 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 12:15 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  This may be one of those "every school has these issues" - but there just seems to be too much public drama around individual players to make it completely enjoyable for us fans. Over the last few years, which major recruits / players have not had some kind of drama that became a distraction. DJ's last two year, Geron maybe, Chris Crawford, Will Barton's second year up until the NCAA tourney. I'm sure there are a couple more, but think of how many did have drama - Joe almost transferring multiple times, Tarik's drama even before he transferred, Austin's issues, Nick King, Adonis, mishandling of Burrell, Iverson, Powell, the issues with Shaq, drama with the Lawsons, etc. How many of those type of public issues did Gene, Dana, and Larry have happen? I'm sure there were some, but I don't remember it being multiple issues every year.

I don't either. But maybe they were the kind of coaches that wouldn't tolerate that sort of stuff. "you're not happy??? Dont let the door hit you in the ass"...this also speaks very strongly to the family and friends element. AAU coaches in the ears of these kids...Easterwood has been saying this for years. Maybe I'm just too old...I sure miss the good ole days!

I blame cell phones

Back in the day you had to have the HS coaches blessing

Then the parents

These guys today bypass everyone and go straight to the kid

Calling and texting all the time

I had kids play for me that I never met until tryouts

Now coaches not only stay calling their players, but yours also

Egos gotta be stroked....they keep getting told that they are the next second coming...probably starts in what....the 8th grade????

Earlier

I'm not calling or texting a kid at my age

Unless it's about practice

Agreed.. I see it happening in 6th grade

(03-24-2017 10:45 AM)BK#14 Wrote:  Do they run deeper than just a coach???

Coach Bartow, Coach Finch and Coach Kirk went to sweet 16s, elite 8s and Final fours and their whole recruiting expense was a tank of gas....

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but it just sucks not even being relevant in March. It's sad

Internet is the devil's workshop!

LaVar Ball is a poster boy for everything what ails college BB. I'm not saying its wrong, its just a by product of the game itself. Get that much money floating around and everyone want's a piece. Who can blame them. Not sure what the fix is, but the game itself is losing all but its core audience.

Drugs will always be a problem. Parents can be talked into the human growth hormones, for example, to make super players out of their kids.

(03-24-2017 04:40 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 10:45 AM)BK#14 Wrote:  Do they run deeper than just a coach???

Coach Bartow, Coach Finch and Coach Kirk went to sweet 16s, elite 8s and Final fours and their whole recruiting expense was a tank of gas....

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but it just sucks not even being relevant in March. It's sad

That's right!!! And stay off of my lawn!!!

I don't think the talent in Memphis has gone down...

I think the talent is getting more concentrated at the larger schools where it is much more difficult to win with Memphis talent alone.

Back in the day there used to be many more surprising guys at smaller schools...Today those guys are getting gobbled up by the bigger schools because of AAU and the internet there aren't many unknowns anymore

(03-24-2017 10:45 AM)BK#14 Wrote:  Do they run deeper than just a coach???

Coach Bartow, Coach Finch and Coach Kirk went to sweet 16s, elite 8s and Final fours and their whole recruiting expense was a tank of gas....

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but it just sucks not even being relevant in March. It's sad

YES

(03-24-2017 04:40 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 10:45 AM)BK#14 Wrote:  Do they run deeper than just a coach???

Coach Bartow, Coach Finch and Coach Kirk went to sweet 16s, elite 8s and Final fours and their whole recruiting expense was a tank of gas....

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but it just sucks not even being relevant in March. It's sad

Awesome first post

(03-24-2017 05:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  I don't think the talent in Memphis has gone down...

I think the talent is getting more concentrated at the larger schools where it is much more difficult to win with Memphis talent alone.

Back in the day there used to be many more surprising guys at smaller schools...Today those guys are getting gobbled up by the bigger schools because of AAU and the internet there aren't many unknowns anymore

HoopDreams is going to be mad. You left him out. He is on this board 24/7 posting about transfers and Grad transfers and you didn't give him credit.

(03-25-2017 08:05 AM)2tigers Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 05:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  I don't think the talent in Memphis has gone down...

I think the talent is getting more concentrated at the larger schools where it is much more difficult to win with Memphis talent alone.

Back in the day there used to be many more surprising guys at smaller schools...Today those guys are getting gobbled up by the bigger schools because of AAU and the internet there aren't many unknowns anymore

HoopDreams is going to be mad. You left him out. He is on this board 24/7 posting about transfers and Grad transfers and you didn't give him credit.

I post recruiting news in the recruiting forum.

The horror.

(03-25-2017 09:09 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:05 AM)2tigers Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 05:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  I don't think the talent in Memphis has gone down...

I think the talent is getting more concentrated at the larger schools where it is much more difficult to win with Memphis talent alone.

Back in the day there used to be many more surprising guys at smaller schools...Today those guys are getting gobbled up by the bigger schools because of AAU and the internet there aren't many unknowns anymore

HoopDreams is going to be mad. You left him out. He is on this board 24/7 posting about transfers and Grad transfers and you didn't give him credit.

I post recruiting news in the recruiting forum.

The horror.

I'm just glad we have someone that still posts info. I see now why so many good posters got ran off

The problem with Memphis talent, at least that has come through UM of late is lack of effort & desire. They aren't hungry like Memphis players in the past. Memphis players from the 50s forward until of late had a chip on their shoulders wanting to show everyone they were good & they'd do anything to win - including working hard everyday. And Memphis players were tougher than most too. For sure some of it today relates to how the best prospects from the time they are in the 8th grade are getting brainwashed about how good they are & without good character & mentors motivating them to understand they won't make it without consistent & tireless work, they come to expect achievement will come just like the ratings they receive. And when they get to college, they think they've arrived - one yr at the college level & off to the pros to make megabucks. But as someone said earlier in the thread, it is very similar to today's generation in general. I see the same thing in my business among college grads who think they've arrived & they haven't done squat. They want to be paid like they are valuable assets making a contribution before they ever make a contribution at all. And we as parents & coaches condition today's' youth to think that way because we give them everything without work & have made them the most important members of the family when instead, it's the parents who work, who put food on the table & a roof over their heads who are the most important. Society needs to change, realize our youth need to be raised to think & do for themselves & not have everything done for them.

Sorry for the rant.......and the high school elite BB players are just the tip of the tip of of today's youth who own the attitude that everyone & everything is owed to them. Back to BB, have you noticed the level of effort put forth by the sweet 16 teams (aside from Baylor who just rolled over). That is what distinguishes the achievers from those who are satisfied with a participation trophy.

(03-25-2017 11:11 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The problem with Memphis talent, at least that has come through UM of late is lack of effort & desire. They aren't hungry like Memphis players in the past. Memphis players from the 50s forward until of late had a chip on their shoulders wanting to show everyone they were good & they'd do anything to win - including working hard everyday. And Memphis players were tougher than most too. For sure some of it today relates to how the best prospects from the time they are in the 8th grade are getting brainwashed about how good they are & without good character & mentors motivating them to understand they won't make it without consistent & tireless work, they come to expect achievement will come just like the ratings they receive. And when they get to college, they think they've arrived - one yr at the college level & off to the pros to make megabucks. But as someone said earlier in the thread, it is very similar to today's generation in general. I see the same thing in my business among college grads who think they've arrived & they haven't done squat. They want to be paid like they are valuable assets making a contribution before they ever make a contribution at all. And we as parents & coaches condition today's' youth to think that way because we give them everything without work & have made them the most important members of the family when instead, it's the parents who work, who put food on the table & a roof over their heads who are the most important. Society needs to change, realize our youth need to be raised to think & do for themselves & not have everything done for them.

Sorry for the rant.......and the high school elite BB players are just the tip of the tip of of today's youth who own the attitude that everyone & everything is owed to them. Back to BB, have you noticed the level of effort put forth by the sweet 16 teams (aside from Baylor who just rolled over). That is what distinguishes the achievers from those who are satisfied with a participation trophy.

I saw a lot of desire out of Chiozza, J3 and Vick the last couple of days. Maybe we are going after the wrong ones?

(03-25-2017 11:14 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 11:11 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The problem with Memphis talent, at least that has come through UM of late is lack of effort & desire. They aren't hungry like Memphis players in the past. Memphis players from the 50s forward until of late had a chip on their shoulders wanting to show everyone they were good & they'd do anything to win - including working hard everyday. And Memphis players were tougher than most too. For sure some of it today relates to how the best prospects from the time they are in the 8th grade are getting brainwashed about how good they are & without good character & mentors motivating them to understand they won't make it without consistent & tireless work, they come to expect achievement will come just like the ratings they receive. And when they get to college, they think they've arrived - one yr at the college level & off to the pros to make megabucks. But as someone said earlier in the thread, it is very similar to today's generation in general. I see the same thing in my business among college grads who think they've arrived & they haven't done squat. They want to be paid like they are valuable assets making a contribution before they ever make a contribution at all. And we as parents & coaches condition today's' youth to think that way because we give them everything without work & have made them the most important members of the family when instead, it's the parents who work, who put food on the table & a roof over their heads who are the most important. Society needs to change, realize our youth need to be raised to think & do for themselves & not have everything done for them.

Sorry for the rant.......and the high school elite BB players are just the tip of the tip of of today's youth who own the attitude that everyone & everything is owed to them. Back to BB, have you noticed the level of effort put forth by the sweet 16 teams (aside from Baylor who just rolled over). That is what distinguishes the achievers from those who are satisfied with a participation trophy.

I saw a lot of desire out of Chiozza, J3 and Vick the last couple of days. Maybe we are going after the wrong ones?

You can change an individual with the right environment & culture. Very difficult to change the culture when virtually the entire team has the culture of entitlement. So I'm on the side of bring kids in from a wide range of cultures & develop your own as the coach.

(03-25-2017 11:18 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 11:14 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 11:11 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The problem with Memphis talent, at least that has come through UM of late is lack of effort & desire. They aren't hungry like Memphis players in the past. Memphis players from the 50s forward until of late had a chip on their shoulders wanting to show everyone they were good & they'd do anything to win - including working hard everyday. And Memphis players were tougher than most too. For sure some of it today relates to how the best prospects from the time they are in the 8th grade are getting brainwashed about how good they are & without good character & mentors motivating them to understand they won't make it without consistent & tireless work, they come to expect achievement will come just like the ratings they receive. And when they get to college, they think they've arrived - one yr at the college level & off to the pros to make megabucks. But as someone said earlier in the thread, it is very similar to today's generation in general. I see the same thing in my business among college grads who think they've arrived & they haven't done squat. They want to be paid like they are valuable assets making a contribution before they ever make a contribution at all. And we as parents & coaches condition today's' youth to think that way because we give them everything without work & have made them the most important members of the family when instead, it's the parents who work, who put food on the table & a roof over their heads who are the most important. Society needs to change, realize our youth need to be raised to think & do for themselves & not have everything done for them.

Sorry for the rant.......and the high school elite BB players are just the tip of the tip of of today's youth who own the attitude that everyone & everything is owed to them. Back to BB, have you noticed the level of effort put forth by the sweet 16 teams (aside from Baylor who just rolled over). That is what distinguishes the achievers from those who are satisfied with a participation trophy.

I saw a lot of desire out of Chiozza, J3 and Vick the last couple of days. Maybe we are going after the wrong ones?

You can change an individual with the right environment & culture. Very difficult to change the culture when virtually the entire team has the culture of entitlement.

Good point

(03-25-2017 11:11 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The problem with Memphis talent, at least that has come through UM of late is lack of effort & desire. They aren't hungry like Memphis players in the past. Memphis players from the 50s forward until of late had a chip on their shoulders wanting to show everyone they were good & they'd do anything to win - including working hard everyday. And Memphis players were tougher than most too. For sure some of it today relates to how the best prospects from the time they are in the 8th grade are getting brainwashed about how good they are & without good character & mentors motivating them to understand they won't make it without consistent & tireless work, they come to expect achievement will come just like the ratings they receive. And when they get to college, they think they've arrived - one yr at the college level & off to the pros to make megabucks. But as someone said earlier in the thread, it is very similar to today's generation in general. I see the same thing in my business among college grads who think they've arrived & they haven't done squat. They want to be paid like they are valuable assets making a contribution before they ever make a contribution at all. And we as parents & coaches condition today's' youth to think that way because we give them everything without work & have made them the most important members of the family when instead, it's the parents who work, who put food on the table & a roof over their heads who are the most important. Society needs to change, realize our youth need to be raised to think & do for themselves & not have everything done for them.

Sorry for the rant.......and the high school elite BB players are just the tip of the tip of of today's youth who own the attitude that everyone & everything is owed to them. Back to BB, have you noticed the level of effort put forth by the sweet 16 teams (aside from Baylor who just rolled over). That is what distinguishes the achievers from those who are satisfied with a participation trophy.

I'm with you there, brother! Players we've been getting lately have been told how great they are without putting forth any effort - or have been coached by their relatives/fiend of the family so they've been given the feeling that they are the hero on the team. No desire to improve.

Entitlement is everywhere there is talent too.

If a coach gets really good players, he/she will need to deal with coaches, parents, friends, hangers on etc telling talented players how awesome they were since grade school.

Here's one example that fell flat on its money a$$ last night.

http://www.complex.com/sports/2017/03/la...ael-jordan

I love how folks tag/tag the Memphis kids.

But a lot of non Memphis kids were runoff too.

Iverson - starter on NCAA team
Woodson - starter on NCAA team
Pookie - starter at La Salle
Raquan Mitchell is playing for the NJCAA title today and going to play for Eustachy at Colorado State.

Etc

Maybe the problem wasn't the jimmies and joes, no matter where they were born, and had more to do with a coach who squandrered talent and slowly unraveled everything good about the program.

That and the focus on football sometimes at the expense of basketball.