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The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1
The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?
03-21-2017 02:49 AM
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XLance Online
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2017 07:18 AM by XLance.)
03-21-2017 07:14 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.

Arkansas was an original first choice. South Carolina was the target of opportunity when Clemson didn't pan out.

Florida State was in my opinion the first manipulation of realignment by ESPN and it was done so they could provide gravitas to the conference they intended to build, and so they could try to control the leverage the SEC was beginning to wield.

But the point that All Tide Up is making is what would things have looked like if we had gone for Miami before the ACC was interested and Virginia Tech before the Cavaliers pushed for a deal?

Having a second Florida school should have been a priority. The geography of Gainesville and its proximity to Tallahassee left a large part of the state unrepresented by either the ACC or SEC. Taking Miami, even though competitively they have not been the star they once were, was a big get for the ACC. The SEC would have been wise to have taken Miami. Having the Canes would have ensured a South Florida presence and it is really a different state than the panhandle and Jacksonville area. It also would not have precluded a move into Texas.

However, I remain dubious about taking Virginia Tech. If we had taken them our focus would have shifted, there would have been more animosity with the ACC, less loyalty by both with ESPN, and our relationship with them for good or ill has been profitable. And the additions of Missouri and A&M would likely have never happened. We would have been slow to expand the last time. Our center of the conference would have shifted too much toward Knoxville to be comfortable for Midwest schools and the Big 10 would have been more defensive with regards to Missouri instead asleep at the wheel.

Besides Virginia Tech is not at any of our means and would have only been a slight add academically (at that time).

An SEC incursion into Virginia in the early 90's might well have meant that the Big 10 would have made a play for Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado to go along with Penn State to get to 16.

If I had been the Big 10 commissioner that Big 10 would have made a helluva lot more sense than the present one.

Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma
Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern
Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

With the exception of Penn State, which in this model is not too much of a stretch, the Big 10 remains extremely cohesive, geographically compact, and culturally solid.

That move would have sewn discord and disarray between the SEC and ACC because the SEC would have had no better candidates to pursue other than ACC properties.

IMO the move into the Northeast with Rutgers was fools gold. Why do you want a school that can't make it's athletic department solvent? Maryland is simply going to be a kind of island for the Big 10. They had a nice population when the market model drove realignment but they don't fit the Big 10.

Allowing the SEC to take Missouri did more to muddy the Big 10's waters than any single move so far. I'd say Colorado to the PAC was second.

The Big 10 needed football prowess, not New England hoops. They only reason they moved into the Northeast was market presence. Now they need to reverse field to add content and it's not as available as it was in 2010.

Instead ESPN used the ACC to acquire the Big East properties it wanted. It used the SEC to begin to maneuver into the Big 12 territory. I don't think either strategy is going to change now. ESPN wants Texas and the SEC wants DFW. DFW is worth more to us than all of Oklahoma. It's just serendipity that OU gives us both.

I would suggest that Texa-homa to the SEC cements what ESPN would like to control in that area.

I would also suggest that Connecticut, West Virginia, Cincinnati, and Notre Dame gives the Mouse everything it wants access to for the ACC.

That's 36 schools stretching from New York through Ohio and down to the Rio Grande. And other than the PAC it engulfs the majority of viewers in the United States and consolidates their interest into two conferences.

Cincinnati doesn't meet metrics, but I'll bet that ESPN will suffer that to get a slice of Ohio without having to pay the Buckeyes.
03-21-2017 10:45 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.

Arkansas was an original first choice. South Carolina was the target of opportunity when Clemson didn't pan out.

Florida State was in my opinion the first manipulation of realignment by ESPN and it was done so they could provide gravitas to the conference they intended to build, and so they could try to control the leverage the SEC was beginning to wield.

But the point that All Tide Up is making is what would things have looked like if we had gone for Miami before the ACC was interested and Virginia Tech before the Cavaliers pushed for a deal?

Having a second Florida school should have been a priority. The geography of Gainesville and its proximity to Tallahassee left a large part of the state unrepresented by either the ACC or SEC. Taking Miami, even though competitively they have not been the star they once were, was a big get for the ACC. The SEC would have been wise to have taken Miami. Having the Canes would have ensured a South Florida presence and it is really a different state than the panhandle and Jacksonville area. It also would not have precluded a move into Texas.

However, I remain dubious about taking Virginia Tech. If we had taken them our focus would have shifted, there would have been more animosity with the ACC, less loyalty by both with ESPN, and our relationship with them for good or ill has been profitable. And the additions of Missouri and A&M would likely have never happened. We would have been slow to expand the last time. Our center of the conference would have shifted too much toward Knoxville to be comfortable for Midwest schools and the Big 10 would have been more defensive with regards to Missouri instead asleep at the wheel.

Besides Virginia Tech is not at any of our means and would have only been a slight add academically (at that time).

An SEC incursion into Virginia in the early 90's might well have meant that the Big 10 would have made a play for Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado to go along with Penn State to get to 16.

If I had been the Big 10 commissioner that Big 10 would have made a helluva lot more sense than the present one.

Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma
Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern
Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

With the exception of Penn State, which in this model is not too much of a stretch, the Big 10 remains extremely cohesive, geographically compact, and culturally solid.

That move would have sewn discord and disarray between the SEC and ACC because the SEC would have had no better candidates to pursue other than ACC properties.

IMO the move into the Northeast with Rutgers was fools gold. Why do you want a school that can't make it's athletic department solvent? Maryland is simply going to be a kind of island for the Big 10. They had a nice population when the market model drove realignment but they don't fit the Big 10.

Allowing the SEC to take Missouri did more to muddy the Big 10's waters than any single move so far. I'd say Colorado to the PAC was second.

The Big 10 needed football prowess, not New England hoops. They only reason they moved into the Northeast was market presence. Now they need to reverse field to add content and it's not as available as it was in 2010.

Instead ESPN used the ACC to acquire the Big East properties it wanted. It used the SEC to begin to maneuver into the Big 12 territory. I don't think either strategy is going to change now. ESPN wants Texas and the SEC wants DFW. DFW is worth more to us than all of Oklahoma. It's just serendipity that OU gives us both.

I would suggest that Texa-homa to the SEC cements what ESPN would like to control in that area.

I would also suggest that Connecticut, West Virginia, Cincinnati, and Notre Dame gives the Mouse everything it wants access to for the ACC.

That's 36 schools stretching from New York through Ohio and down to the Rio Grande. And other than the PAC it engulfs the majority of viewers in the United States and consolidates their interest into two conferences.

Cincinnati doesn't meet metrics, but I'll bet that ESPN will suffer that to get a slice of Ohio without having to pay the Buckeyes.

1990's VT might be the beginning of Beamer ball and might affect how that program developed football wise. Miami was in their prime but so was their cheating which could further taint the SEC image in later years.

I still think if the right schools came along from the SWC or the Big 8, Cramer would have added more programs. Slive could get to 16 schools in 15 minutes if he wanted to, but they have to be the right ones.

My guess is Arkansas and South Carolina would join the SEC as number 13 and 14 as that was the best landing spot for them with the way TV contracts were working out. The round of expansion in 2010's would still happen as the conference Networks would make large population states lucrative.

SEC East
Miami, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

SEC West
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss , Mississippi State, LSU, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Missouri
03-21-2017 11:39 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #5
RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.

For a troll, you've got a way with words. I'll give you that.
03-21-2017 04:31 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 11:39 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.

Arkansas was an original first choice. South Carolina was the target of opportunity when Clemson didn't pan out.

Florida State was in my opinion the first manipulation of realignment by ESPN and it was done so they could provide gravitas to the conference they intended to build, and so they could try to control the leverage the SEC was beginning to wield.

But the point that All Tide Up is making is what would things have looked like if we had gone for Miami before the ACC was interested and Virginia Tech before the Cavaliers pushed for a deal?

Having a second Florida school should have been a priority. The geography of Gainesville and its proximity to Tallahassee left a large part of the state unrepresented by either the ACC or SEC. Taking Miami, even though competitively they have not been the star they once were, was a big get for the ACC. The SEC would have been wise to have taken Miami. Having the Canes would have ensured a South Florida presence and it is really a different state than the panhandle and Jacksonville area. It also would not have precluded a move into Texas.

However, I remain dubious about taking Virginia Tech. If we had taken them our focus would have shifted, there would have been more animosity with the ACC, less loyalty by both with ESPN, and our relationship with them for good or ill has been profitable. And the additions of Missouri and A&M would likely have never happened. We would have been slow to expand the last time. Our center of the conference would have shifted too much toward Knoxville to be comfortable for Midwest schools and the Big 10 would have been more defensive with regards to Missouri instead asleep at the wheel.

Besides Virginia Tech is not at any of our means and would have only been a slight add academically (at that time).

An SEC incursion into Virginia in the early 90's might well have meant that the Big 10 would have made a play for Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado to go along with Penn State to get to 16.

If I had been the Big 10 commissioner that Big 10 would have made a helluva lot more sense than the present one.

Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma
Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern
Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

With the exception of Penn State, which in this model is not too much of a stretch, the Big 10 remains extremely cohesive, geographically compact, and culturally solid.

That move would have sewn discord and disarray between the SEC and ACC because the SEC would have had no better candidates to pursue other than ACC properties.

IMO the move into the Northeast with Rutgers was fools gold. Why do you want a school that can't make it's athletic department solvent? Maryland is simply going to be a kind of island for the Big 10. They had a nice population when the market model drove realignment but they don't fit the Big 10.

Allowing the SEC to take Missouri did more to muddy the Big 10's waters than any single move so far. I'd say Colorado to the PAC was second.

The Big 10 needed football prowess, not New England hoops. They only reason they moved into the Northeast was market presence. Now they need to reverse field to add content and it's not as available as it was in 2010.

Instead ESPN used the ACC to acquire the Big East properties it wanted. It used the SEC to begin to maneuver into the Big 12 territory. I don't think either strategy is going to change now. ESPN wants Texas and the SEC wants DFW. DFW is worth more to us than all of Oklahoma. It's just serendipity that OU gives us both.

I would suggest that Texa-homa to the SEC cements what ESPN would like to control in that area.

I would also suggest that Connecticut, West Virginia, Cincinnati, and Notre Dame gives the Mouse everything it wants access to for the ACC.

That's 36 schools stretching from New York through Ohio and down to the Rio Grande. And other than the PAC it engulfs the majority of viewers in the United States and consolidates their interest into two conferences.

Cincinnati doesn't meet metrics, but I'll bet that ESPN will suffer that to get a slice of Ohio without having to pay the Buckeyes.

1990's VT might be the beginning of Beamer ball and might affect how that program developed football wise. Miami was in their prime but so was their cheating which could further taint the SEC image in later years.

I still think if the right schools came along from the SWC or the Big 8, Cramer would have added more programs. Slive could get to 16 schools in 15 minutes if he wanted to, but they have to be the right ones.

My guess is Arkansas and South Carolina would join the SEC as number 13 and 14 as that was the best landing spot for them with the way TV contracts were working out. The round of expansion in 2010's would still happen as the conference Networks would make large population states lucrative.

SEC East
Miami, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

SEC West
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss , Mississippi State, LSU, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Missouri

The beginning of Beamer ball looked a lot like the recent Baylor. Several rapes, rampant steroid usage, mistreatment of women, you name it.
After a winning tradition was established VT cleaned (cough, cough) their program.
03-21-2017 07:18 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

When the ACC was investigating expansion, two schools garnered votes in a hypothetical "draft".
Florida State and Syracuse both were the choice of 4 ACC schools as an expansion partner. Syracuse was contacted first and was deemed too "difficult" and then the ACC attention was turned to Florida State.
To expand on your question, what if the ACC had pursued and landed both Syracuse and Florida State in '90-'91? Which means the ACC would move to 10 teams as the SEC was moving to 12. How long would the ACC have waited to move to 12?
How difficult is it to assimilate a new team (teams) into a new league? Egos? Who really wants to take on Texas' attitude?
"Fit" or culture may come into play a lot more that we realize.
03-22-2017 07:19 AM
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Post: #8
RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 07:30 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
03-22-2017 07:29 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.
03-22-2017 08:17 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-22-2017 08:17 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.

Well Bobby had brought them a long way from 1977 at that point. They were no longer laboring under the banner of female teacher's college which changed after WWII and was famous only for producing Lee Corso and Burt Reynolds.
03-22-2017 08:24 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-22-2017 08:17 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.

This is very accurate and a good read. A good history lesson.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/storie...NMqLW_yvIU
03-22-2017 08:55 PM
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-22-2017 08:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 08:17 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.

This is very accurate and a good read. A good history lesson.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/storie...NMqLW_yvIU

I read that piece when it first came out. It's a nice story and essentially true, but not the whole story. But in these kinds of matters (when things fall through) the whole story never comes out.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 09:23 PM by JRsec.)
03-22-2017 09:22 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-22-2017 08:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 08:17 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 02:49 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'd like to take you back to the year 1992 and the expansion of the SEC with Arkansas and South Carolina. We've heard many times how it went down, but we've never really heard why the SEC stopped there.

The SEC didn't expand again until the environment had turned to a mixture of chaotic rumor and the threat of conference dissolution. So why, with the success of the first expansion, did the SEC wait so long?

Well, others will have to answer that question with specifics, but let's say that the SEC had chosen to expand again in the not too distant past. What if the SEC had decided to expand with Virginia Tech and Miami in the late 90s or early 2000s?

How would things be different today?

How would further realignment have played out?

The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.

Well Bobby had brought them a long way from 1977 at that point. They were no longer laboring under the banner of female teacher's college which changed after WWII and was famous only for producing Lee Corso and Burt Reynolds.

Not to mention Mack Brown.
Mack followed his brother Watson to Vanderbilt, but later transferred to Florida State where an injury ended his playing career.
03-24-2017 07:50 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-22-2017 09:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 08:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 08:17 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  The SEC took a long time to get over the disappointment of having to take their third choices, not only in the west but in the east, too.
That's not to say that in retrospect, Arkansas and South Carolina weren't good additions, they just weren't the schools that the SEC was gunning for at that time.
The rejection by Florida State was particularly unforeseen.
Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.

This is very accurate and a good read. A good history lesson.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/storie...NMqLW_yvIU

I read that piece when it first came out. It's a nice story and essentially true, but not the whole story. But in these kinds of matters (when things fall through) the whole story never comes out.

There's always two sides to a coin JR. What I was interested in was how FSU chose a clearer path to national titles over sold out stadiums with strong SEC schedules. Those same internal divisions still stand in FSU as we all remember FSU had formed an exploratory committee during the last round of expansion to ensure FSU would not be left behind financially if the ACC could not secure and financially competitive platform to stay within reach of the over college conferences.
03-24-2017 01:49 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
(03-24-2017 01:49 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 09:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 08:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 08:17 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:29 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Florida State saw the ACC as a football cupcake they could dominate, forcing the ACC FB to improve their product, as well as the fact that the ACC would boost the Seminole basketball program. Both have come to pass.

I'm still shocked FSU gave head football coach Bobby Bowden that much power to sway the school's decision. He became a legend for it with all those wins.


Florida State will always be on the table at the close of a contract or GOR period. They merely punted last time because the Big 12 wasn't an option and ESPN refuses to pay the SEC to take them.

This is very accurate and a good read. A good history lesson.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/storie...NMqLW_yvIU

I read that piece when it first came out. It's a nice story and essentially true, but not the whole story. But in these kinds of matters (when things fall through) the whole story never comes out.

There's always two sides to a coin JR. What I was interested in was how FSU chose a clearer path to national titles over sold out stadiums with strong SEC schedules. Those same internal divisions still stand in FSU as we all remember FSU had formed an exploratory committee during the last round of expansion to ensure FSU would not be left behind financially if the ACC could not secure and financially competitive platform to stay within reach of the over college conferences.

Florida State will always be on the market when their contracts and GOR's are up for renewal. The punted and played it safe last time because the Big 12 was woefully unsteady and ESPN refused to pay the SEC for taking them. They will look around for more every chance they get.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2017 03:08 PM by JRsec.)
03-24-2017 02:42 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #16
RE: The What If Game...How would realignment have been different?
https://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU

Florida State isn't ever going anywhere. You know it, I know it, ESPN knows it.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2017 04:43 PM by XLance.)
03-24-2017 04:38 PM
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