Can we put the Xavier luck and mystique factors in the trash can? It's like the Ohio State has a bigger prick than we do syndrome around here. Crikey. Try these NCAA results for Xavier dating back to Pete Gillen:

Gillen 9 Seasons/7 NCAA Appearances
3 First Round Exits
3 Second Round Appearances
1 S16

Prosser 7 Seasons/4 NCAA Appearances
3 First Round Exits
1 Second Round Appearance

Matta 3 Seasons/3 NCAA Appearances
2 Second Round Appearances
1 E8

Miller 5 Seasons/4 NCAA Appearances
1 First Round Exit
1 Second Round Appearance
1 S16
1 E8

Mack 8 Seasons/7 NCAA Appearances
1 First Round Exit
3 Second Round Appearances (1 TBD)
3 S16

All told X has made 5 S16's and 2 E8 in 25 NCAA Appearances since the 1985/86 season. No FF's and no National Championships. They also have 8 one and done's. A certain amount of luck (or bad) plays a factor in the NCAA's but I don't see Xavier as having any more than anyone else based on their ultimate results. To me, the National Champion has to have an inordinate amount of luck on their side because it's damn hard to win 6 games in a row against this field of competition.

They made the Elite Eight Matta's last year too. So 2 E8 and 5 S16.
In that same timeframe UC has 1 FF, 2 E8 and 2 S16

Those 2 extra trips past the first weekend seem like more.

(03-16-2017 10:06 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  They made the Elite Eight Matta's last year too. So 2 E8 and 5 S16.
In that same timeframe UC has 1 FF, 2 E8 and 2 S16

Those 2 extra trips past the first weekend seem like more.

Thanks for the correction on Matta, Billy. I edited the OP.

Not overall as they have sucked overall with only 2 EE's and 0 final fours. But they're last two Sweet Sixteens they've played a 15 seed game in the second round and then a 14 seed in the second round.

Three sweet sixteens since 2009 and only one win over a top 5 seed. That is extremely lucky.

Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

(03-16-2017 10:35 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  Not overall as they have sucked overall with only 2 EE's and 0 final fours. But they're last two Sweet Sixteens they've played a 15 seed game in the second round and then a 14 seed in the second round.

Three sweet sixteens since 2009 and only one win over a top 5 seed. That is extremely lucky.

I see your point Matt for recent history but luck to advance beyond the first weekend is nothing compared to winning a National Championship. How about UConn's 2010/11 season when they won 5 in a row to win the loaded Big East tournament and then 6 in a row to take the National Championship?

(03-16-2017 10:42 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

Feel free to ignore the thread.

(03-16-2017 10:42 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

Did we really need your lame post. I never understood the people who cry about a thread not be interesting to them. How hard is it to simply not click it. You knew it was going to be about Xavier by looking at the title.

(03-16-2017 10:42 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

Not as lame as you responding like this. I think UCGrad1992 did a nice job calling this out.

March madness has two waves around here:

Wave 1 is the UC fans that wring their hands and claim somehow Ohio State and XU reps screwed us in the seeding (see my post from a few days ago titled Thank You!)

Wave 2 is the mostly the same fans that wring their hands and say how lucky XU's seeding is and then really kick it in overdrive when XU upsets somebody.


The UCGrad1992 was calling out the Wave 2 folks and it is dead on.

(03-17-2017 04:28 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(03-16-2017 10:42 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

Did we really need your lame post. I never understood the people who cry about a thread not be interesting to them. How hard is it to simply not click it. You knew it was going to be about Xavier by looking at the title.

Don't be so presumptuous. My issue with it is it could have easily stayed in the Tournament thread it started in. It's hardly worthy of it's own thread, as evidenced by the fact that you and I have already taken it off-topic, with this back and forth right here.

(03-17-2017 06:40 AM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(03-17-2017 04:28 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(03-16-2017 10:42 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

Did we really need your lame post. I never understood the people who cry about a thread not be interesting to them. How hard is it to simply not click it. You knew it was going to be about Xavier by looking at the title.

Don't be so presumptuous. My issue with it is it could have easily stayed in the Tournament thread it started in. It's hardly worthy of it's own thread, as evidenced by the fact that you and I have already taken it off-topic, with this back and forth right here.

On the first page of bearcat banter there are threads that haven't been posted to in a week. This thread isnt exactly crowding out a bunch of other hot topics. And it's ironic that you were the one who took the thread off topic to begin with then used that to validate your opinion that this wasn't worthy of a separate thread.

I think back to 5 years ago. I believe X was a 7 (or 10 seed), but they had a 2nd round match up with Duke. Lehigh beat Duke then X was able to waltz into the S16. UC has never caught a break like that in the tourney. Last night they played the worst 6 seed ive ever seen - Maryland looked like a steaming pile of dog poop.

Just my $.02 but my perception is X gets the luck and we get the typical Cincinnati sports team post season luck.

(03-17-2017 07:04 AM)wanes Wrote:  I think back to 5 years ago. I believe X was a 7 (or 10 seed), but they had a 2nd round match up with Duke. Lehigh beat Duke then X was able to waltz into the S16. UC has never caught a break like that in the tourney. Last night they played the worst 6 seed ive ever seen - Maryland looked like a steaming pile of dog poop.

Just my $.02 but my perception is X gets the luck and we get the typical Cincinnati sports team post season luck.

I would say UC had the "luck" in '92 as the one seed exited early and UC just had to win a fourth time against thrice beaten Memphis to reach the Final Four. That takes nothing away from the '92 team or being in the Final Four.

The "bad luck" excuse for UC; regarding the seed, the draw, the location, the game time, the "shot" is getting really old. It's time to win and advance to the Sweet Sixteen as a minimum expectation.

(03-17-2017 06:49 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(03-17-2017 06:40 AM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(03-17-2017 04:28 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(03-16-2017 10:42 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Do we really need a separate thread for this? Kind of a lame topic in and of itself.

Did we really need your lame post. I never understood the people who cry about a thread not be interesting to them. How hard is it to simply not click it. You knew it was going to be about Xavier by looking at the title.

Don't be so presumptuous. My issue with it is it could have easily stayed in the Tournament thread it started in. It's hardly worthy of it's own thread, as evidenced by the fact that you and I have already taken it off-topic, with this back and forth right here.

On the first page of bearcat banter there are threads that haven't been posted to in a week. This thread isnt exactly crowding out a bunch of other hot topics. And it's ironic that you were the one who took the thread off topic to begin with then used that to validate your opinion that this wasn't worthy of a separate thread.

No, what's ironic, is you're saying this while taking the thread further into weeds; as I never once accused it of crowding other threads out of anything.

"The best luck of all is the luck you make for yourself." -- Douglas MacArthur

Simply put, XU has been waayyy better than UC in dealing with luck over the past 20 years. If it weren't for bad luck, UC wouldn't have had any at all.

You are right - its not luck at all. They have been given A LOT of sweetheart seedings in the tournament and faced a lot of lousy absurdly overseeded opponnents - this year is a perfect example.

Xavier an 11 seed goes to Orlando (where to my knowledge they have been placed more than anyone else.) They play Maryland a 6 seed.

Xavier is 31st in the Sagarin ratings, Xavier is 35th in Kenpom - Maryland is 44th. in the Kenpom they are 48th. By subjective measure, forget being a 6 seed, they probably shouldn't have made the tournament.

Think about it - Xavier an 11 seed got a chance to play a team that every objective measurement tool said they should beat and arguably should not have made the tournament.

That is not luck - that is being dealt from the bottom of the deck.

(03-17-2017 07:58 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  You are right - its not luck at all. They have been given A LOT of sweetheart seedings in the tournament and faced a lot of lousy absurdly overseeded opponnents - this year is a perfect example.

Xavier an 11 seed goes to Orlando (where to my knowledge they have been placed more than anyone else.) They play Maryland a 6 seed.

Xavier is 31st in the Sagarin ratings, Xavier is 35th in Kenpom - Maryland is 44th. in the Kenpom they are 48th. By subjective measure, forget being a 6 seed, they probably shouldn't have made the tournament.

Think about it - Xavier an 11 seed got a chance to play a team that every objective measurement tool said they should beat and arguably should not have made the tournament.

That is not luck - that is being dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Yea but you are citing kenpom so screw you.

(03-17-2017 07:58 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  You are right - its not luck at all. They have been given A LOT of sweetheart seedings in the tournament and faced a lot of lousy absurdly overseeded opponnents - this year is a perfect example.

Xavier an 11 seed goes to Orlando (where to my knowledge they have been placed more than anyone else.) They play Maryland a 6 seed.

Xavier is 31st in the Sagarin ratings, Xavier is 35th in Kenpom - Maryland is 44th. in the Kenpom they are 48th. By subjective measure, forget being a 6 seed, they probably shouldn't have made the tournament.

Think about it - Xavier an 11 seed got a chance to play a team that every objective measurement tool said they should beat and arguably should not have made the tournament.

That is not luck - that is being dealt from the bottom of the deck.

I do believe Xavier has had more than their fair share of good draws but some years they just have been really good too.

I think people in Cincinnati thinks that the NCAA tournament is all about getting lucky and playing lower seeded teams. This probably comes from UC's 1992 Final Four run where the bracket fell apart and the fact Huggins never beat a higher seeded team at UC. Couple that with the times Xavier and UC have played double digit seeds to advance to Sweet 16 and start to believe that advancing in the tournament is all about playing easy games.

The fact of the matter is that Xavier continues to win games it should, while we exit the tournament in the first or second round every year.

Win in March and our perception will change. Xavier wins when it matters.

But "wait" you might say maybe there were other 11 seeds also got the chance to play a lousy 6 seed that arguably shouldn't have made the tournament and that had lower computer rankings.

NOPE - Xavier got the only bargain and its not even remotely close.

11 Rhode Island (45th sagarin 37 Kenpom) has to play
6 Creighton (27th Sagarin and 27 Kenpom)

11 USC (53rd Sagarin, 59 Kenpom) - has to play
6 SMU (19th Sagarin, 11th Kenpom)

11 Kansas State (32 Sagarin, 28th Kenpom)
6 UC (21 st Sagarin, 22 Kenpom)

So lets recap.

- Stayed in Eastern Time zone to Florida, which is where they are usually placed.

- Only 11 seed that didn't have to go through a play in game

- Played a 6 seed ranked with an average computer ranking of 46.

- The average computer ranking of the other three 6 seeds? 21