It is that point where I'm most curious. Not the social values part.

(02-26-2017 09:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 08:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?

Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.

Okay. How is family values not religious

So...Atheists are not capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong and teaching thier children to be good citizens and neighbors?

Who said right & wrong = family values. Family values is the line of thought that brought discrimination against gays. Was that right and wrong?

Family values is raising children in a 2 parent family that does everything reasonable to stay together. That can be sold without religion or politics. You against that?

(02-26-2017 09:10 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:05 PM)john01992 Wrote:  And yet cost reduction spending is a very liberal line of thought and one that libertarians disagree with.

I don't think most Libertarians have a problem with public health spending that results in harm reduction.

I have no problem with subsidizing birth control because it saves us a ton in the long run in welfare/healthcare for example, or teaching sex Ed properly and proper ways to prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancy.

(02-26-2017 09:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Pretty much everything can be twisted for cost reduction to the govt or taxpayer. It's on that point where libs and libertarians have their major ideology clash so I'm surprised to see you take the lib POV.

I think you underestimate how socially liberal most Libertarians are. I think the difference may that you call this "cost reduction" and I refer to it as "harm reduction". That distinction needs some further pondering by me.

Better roads schools etc can all be seen as big govt spending that saves us money . Yet it is libertarians who want to cut govt spending the most.

In administration yes, areas that experience wasteful spending yes, not all of us are all out anarco capitalists, muh roads

It saves money when low class people use birth control. It cost money when used in the middle and upper-middle class. Who knows what the net is, but one message doesn't serve all.

(02-26-2017 09:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  It saves money when low class people use birth control. It cost money when used in the middle and upper-middle class. Who knows what the net is, but one message doesn't serve all.

I won't argue with that, I'd pretty much agree with that post. Thanks for giving me stuff to to read tonight guys, stuck with a goat that should be within 18 hours of giving birth.

(02-26-2017 09:28 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.

Okay. How is family values not religious

So...Atheists are not capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong and teaching thier children to be good citizens and neighbors?

Who said right & wrong = family values. Family values is the line of thought that brought discrimination against gays. Was that right and wrong?

Family values is raising children in a 2 parent family that does everything reasonable to stay together. That can be sold without religion or politics. You against that?

If that implies an unhealthy marriage being forced to stay together and a "girls should cook and sew clothing and boys play sports" mentality then yes I am totally against that.

(02-26-2017 09:40 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  It saves money when low class people use birth control. It cost money when used in the middle and upper-middle class. Who knows what the net is, but one message doesn't serve all.

I won't argue with that, I'd pretty much agree with that post. Thanks for giving me stuff to to read tonight guys, stuck with a goat that should be within 18 hours of giving birth.

The point is that a lot of govt spending can be seen as for the greater good by libs. So doesn't this stance open up a wormhole for libertarian ideology?

(02-26-2017 09:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Pretty much everything can be twisted for cost reduction to the govt or taxpayer. It's on that point where libs and libertarians have their major ideology clash so I'm surprised to see you take the lib POV.

I think you underestimate how socially liberal most Libertarians are. I think the difference may that you call this "cost reduction" and I refer to it as "harm reduction". That distinction needs some further pondering by me.

Better roads schools etc can all be seen as big govt spending that saves us money . Yet it is libertarians who want to cut govt spending the most.

That is probably true..but..not in regard to infrastructure. The school issue probably has more to do with a disagreement in effectiveness more than anything else.
I think we both can agree that we waste money on plenty of things that are simply nothing more than political and crony capitalism payoffs. Also we waste lots of money on military spending that needs addressing. There is plenty of fat to cut all around.

(02-26-2017 09:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:40 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  It saves money when low class people use birth control. It cost money when used in the middle and upper-middle class. Who knows what the net is, but one message doesn't serve all.

I won't argue with that, I'd pretty much agree with that post. Thanks for giving me stuff to to read tonight guys, stuck with a goat that should be within 18 hours of giving birth.

The point is that a lot of govt spending can be seen as for the greater good by libs. So doesn't this stance open up a wormhole for libertarian ideology?

Only for the diehard anarco-capitalist branch of the ideology/party, not at all for the classical liberals and moderate libertarians.

(02-26-2017 09:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:40 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  It saves money when low class people use birth control. It cost money when used in the middle and upper-middle class. Who knows what the net is, but one message doesn't serve all.

I won't argue with that, I'd pretty much agree with that post. Thanks for giving me stuff to to read tonight guys, stuck with a goat that should be within 18 hours of giving birth.

The point is that a lot of govt spending can be seen as for the greater good by libs. So doesn't this stance open up a wormhole for libertarian ideology?

It is the effectiveness of some of that spending that many Libertarians have an issue with. Take for instance the war on poverty. We have thrown over 20 TRILLION dollars at this since LBJ. I think we both can agree that it has not been as effective as it was hoped to have been and in fact has created institutionalization in much of that demographic.