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Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
Fo I thought you were a libertarian? You are making very unlibertarian comments in this thread
02-26-2017 08:25 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Fo I thought you were a libertarian? You are making very unlibertarian comments in this thread

Wut? Personal responsibility is a primary concern to those with Libertarian leanings.
02-26-2017 08:33 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 07:35 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 05:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Also teach Family values instead of LGBT garbage in schools.

agree 100% here. not so much on the taxation of birth control.

Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.
02-26-2017 08:35 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Fo I thought you were a libertarian? You are making very unlibertarian comments in this thread

Wut? Personal responsibility is a primary concern to those with Libertarian leanings.

I didn't get that either. Your stance is of non aggression.
02-26-2017 08:37 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Fo I thought you were a libertarian? You are making very unlibertarian comments in this thread

Wut? Personal responsibility is a primary concern to those with Libertarian leanings.

I thought "the govt doesn't have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body" mantra takes precedence. Small govt right? Oh and you seem to support my aggressive sex Ed?
02-26-2017 08:40 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 07:35 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 05:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Also teach Family values instead of LGBT garbage in schools.

agree 100% here. not so much on the taxation of birth control.

Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.

How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?
02-26-2017 08:41 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Fo I thought you were a libertarian? You are making very unlibertarian comments in this thread

Wut? Personal responsibility is a primary concern to those with Libertarian leanings.

I thought "the govt doesn't have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body" mantra takes precedence. Small govt right? Oh and you seem to support my aggressive sex Ed?

Murder would be a violation of non aggression. You really miss that?
02-26-2017 08:45 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Fo I thought you were a libertarian? You are making very unlibertarian comments in this thread

Wut? Personal responsibility is a primary concern to those with Libertarian leanings.

I thought "the govt doesn't have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body" mantra takes precedence. Small govt right? Oh and you seem to support my aggressive sex Ed?

It is about reduction of harm. Educating youths on the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases and prevention of unwanted pregnancies is a harm reduction initiative. I don't think that breaks the principle of non aggression. As long as theft, fraud,violence or destruction of property is not involved? Its fine. I guess a case could be made that forcing children to go to school in the first place is a violent act..but..only really HARD core Neolibertarians would attempt to go to that place...and they are a very tiny percentage of the demographic. Most believe that it is fine because as adults we have the ability to make choices for our minor children that involve the use of force...ie public education...vaccines...ect.
02-26-2017 08:59 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 08:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 07:35 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 05:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Also teach Family values instead of LGBT garbage in schools.

agree 100% here. not so much on the taxation of birth control.

Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.

How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?

Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.
02-26-2017 09:03 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
And yet cost reduction spending is a very liberal line of thought and one that libertarians disagree with.
02-26-2017 09:05 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 07:35 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 05:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Also teach Family values instead of LGBT garbage in schools.

agree 100% here. not so much on the taxation of birth control.

Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.

How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?

Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.

Okay. How is family values not religious
02-26-2017 09:06 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 07:35 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  agree 100% here. not so much on the taxation of birth control.

Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.

How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?

Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.

Okay. How is family values not religious

Call it civic responsibility if you like. Regardless of the name he's referring to what is the most advantageous to society as a whole.
02-26-2017 09:08 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
What makes it more advantageous
02-26-2017 09:10 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:05 PM)john01992 Wrote:  And yet cost reduction spending is a very liberal line of thought and one that libertarians disagree with.

I don't think most Libertarians have a problem with public health spending that results in harm reduction.
02-26-2017 09:10 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 07:35 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  agree 100% here. not so much on the taxation of birth control.

Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.

How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?

Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.

Okay. How is family values not religious

So...Atheists are not capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong and teaching thier children to be good citizens and neighbors?
02-26-2017 09:12 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
Pretty much everything can be twisted for cost reduction to the govt or taxpayer. It's on that point where libs and libertarians have their major ideology clash so I'm surprised to see you take the lib POV.
02-26-2017 09:14 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  What makes it more advantageous

That's a fair point of discussion.

You could make an argument that respect for human life is central to civilization and the crawl out of the state of wilderness. You could also say that keeping children who are more likely to grow up poor and commit crime from ever being born is positive. It's fair to ask the question of wether it is an objective positive.

The question of its identity as a theory is not relavent.

The point is that what is not as important as much as how.

You don't have to buy it outright, and that's fine and all well and good but it must be governed by society at large. When a society's values and set of objectively positive actions are incongruent there is a negative effect.

Well, that was fun.
02-26-2017 09:17 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Pretty much everything can be twisted for cost reduction to the govt or taxpayer. It's on that point where libs and libertarians have their major ideology clash so I'm surprised to see you take the lib POV.

I think you underestimate how socially liberal most Libertarians are. I think the difference may that you call this "cost reduction" and I refer to it as "harm reduction". That distinction needs some further pondering by me.
02-26-2017 09:21 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 08:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Point is family values. And not even in a religious way. Just the morals of a together family. That's what is missing. Couldn't care less about taxing birth control. Just an idea, but agree the least effective of the list. Tax incentives in the short term and education in the long term are more effective. Paid maternity and paternity is an overreach of federal power, but would be effective as well.

How is family values in the name of preventing abortion not religious?

Go back to the beginning and read. Abortion has little to do with it.

Okay. How is family values not religious

So...Atheists are not capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong and teaching thier children to be good citizens and neighbors?

Who said right & wrong = family values. Family values is the line of thought that brought discrimination against gays. Was that right and wrong?
02-26-2017 09:21 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Oklahoma bill would give men reproductive rights and the Leftist MSM goes nuts
(02-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Pretty much everything can be twisted for cost reduction to the govt or taxpayer. It's on that point where libs and libertarians have their major ideology clash so I'm surprised to see you take the lib POV.

I think you underestimate how socially liberal most Libertarians are. I think the difference may that you call this "cost reduction" and I refer to it as "harm reduction". That distinction needs some further pondering by me.

Better roads schools etc can all be seen as big govt spending that saves us money . Yet it is libertarians who want to cut govt spending the most.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2017 09:25 PM by john01992.)
02-26-2017 09:22 PM
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