Disclaimer... rambling ahead.

If the economy makes a big jump and industry comes home, etc, etc... can enough jobs be created to keep most everybody who is able bodies working?

Obviously it's unrealistic to expect 100% labor participation but it's something I have been pondering. with advances in automation is it even possible? I know that new jobs will come about as things change... I'm kind of rambling but what concerns me is will we hit a point where too many people have idle time? Then what? I could see crime being a big problem.

something has to be done maybe something drastic to keep as many jobs as we possibly can here.

improved automation, increasing population, and people working into later ages all combine for a labor force crisis in the future IMO.

I don't know how a society can handle a situation where there are more people and less demand for workers.

Perhaps we'll go back to single income households like it used to be and things will balance out.

Less illegal immigrants=more jobs.

I've been on the excess human capital bandwagon for a long time. It's not just manufacturing, it's white collar jobs too. Think about how many accountants it took to handle 1,000 customers in 1980 versus now or how legal research has changed with everything electronically accessible.

I don't know the solution, but I do know that as a nation we consume more than we make, hence our negative export position. That means, to some level, we could expand the required workforce if we made more of what we consumed here at home. However, we are an industrious group and continuing productivity gains would wipe out that increase with time.

I'm a tried and true capitalist, but that may change over time. Productivity gains generally flow to capital, not labor, which is how it should be. However, that has gotten out of balance in our country to a certain extent and more of those gains need to flow back to labor. This would allow for the reemergence of the single income household to some level. That would also help the situation.

There is a problem. There were never enough jobs ever since the end of the civil war. Throwing the free African Americans from slavery made it were there were not enough jobs. It is the same when each minorities each got rights to be equals in this country. There have been a shortage of jobs, and not enough planning to prevent it.

Actually, there were plenty of jobs until women entered the workforce in significant numbers. Between 1950 and 2000, the number of men in the workforce increased 31 million while the number of women increased 47 million. That 16 million difference is more than the sum off all unemployed and under employed people now in America.

I have absolutely nothing against women in the workforce, but the advent of the 2 income family is what's led to the job shortage, coupled with automation. The funny thing is that there is very little benefit for most families being 2 income. All it does is lead to higher and unnecessary spending by families along with poorer nutrition and more bratty kids.

I would say, no. At least, there won't be enough jobs making enough money for a "typical" US living. I think people's expectations of standard of living (for the U.S., meaning mostly money, rather than time off or other benefits) have outpaced actual productivity.

There are plenty of unfilled jobs. The problem is not a lack of jobs but rather a lack of skills and talent to fill the jobs that are available.

(02-26-2017 09:48 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  There are plenty of unfilled jobs. The problem is not a lack of jobs but rather a lack of skills and talent to fill the jobs that are available.

so how do we get enough Anericans qualified for these jobs? the cost of a 4 year degree is through the roof right now. I think we need to push tech skills / trades much harder than we are.

(02-26-2017 09:48 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  There are plenty of unfilled jobs. The problem is not a lack of jobs but rather a lack of skills and talent to fill the jobs that are available.

Yes, but it goes deeper than that. I run a small business and I see it first-hand: there are some people who are just not employable no matter how much training you give them. There are many reasons: drug-addled, inherently lazy, just not that smart. You might get them to work effectively if you stand over them and supervise every action and tell them exactly what to do, but then you're paying more than double for the same work (the person "working" plus the person supervising).

I'd rather import immigrants who know how to work and pay welfare to the addled to stay the hell out of the way of the productive. It's cheaper in the long run.

(02-26-2017 10:30 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:48 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  There are plenty of unfilled jobs. The problem is not a lack of jobs but rather a lack of skills and talent to fill the jobs that are available.

Yes, but it goes deeper than that. I run a small business and I see it first-hand: there are some people who are just not employable no matter how much training you give them. There are many reasons: drug-addled, inherently lazy, just not that smart. You might get them to work effectively if you stand over them and supervise every action and tell them exactly what to do, but then you're paying more than double for the same work (the person "working" plus the person supervising).

I'd rather import immigrants who know how to work and pay welfare to the addled to stay the hell out of the way of the productive. It's cheaper in the long run.

Sometimes the lazy part may not be correct. Someone could be disabled which could make look lazy and not smart.

(02-26-2017 10:30 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:48 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  There are plenty of unfilled jobs. The problem is not a lack of jobs but rather a lack of skills and talent to fill the jobs that are available.

Yes, but it goes deeper than that. I run a small business and I see it first-hand: there are some people who are just not employable no matter how much training you give them. There are many reasons: drug-addled, inherently lazy, just not that smart. You might get them to work effectively if you stand over them and supervise every action and tell them exactly what to do, but then you're paying more than double for the same work (the person "working" plus the person supervising).

I'd rather import immigrants who know how to work and pay welfare to the addled to stay the hell out of the way of the productive. It's cheaper in the long run.

how much of the blame for the "just plain lazy" and "not very smart" belongs to our welfare state and schools? would they be that lazy if there wasn't an easy out? I think education needs more focus on work skills than we have now. it is almost 100% geared towards tests and university prep. in other words we aren't teaching kids how to be employable.

(02-25-2017 09:17 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  Less illegal immigrants=more jobs.

You sure about that?

You might put some small businesses and farmers out of work.

If all the undocumented migrants left Houston (an example), lots of economic activity goes away, and that economic activity helps employ a lot of legal residents.

If you throw out all the migrants, you're not going to take a seasonal job for 9 bucks an hour. The farm or business reliant on them will likely just go out of business.

(02-26-2017 10:40 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 10:30 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:48 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  There are plenty of unfilled jobs. The problem is not a lack of jobs but rather a lack of skills and talent to fill the jobs that are available.

Yes, but it goes deeper than that. I run a small business and I see it first-hand: there are some people who are just not employable no matter how much training you give them. There are many reasons: drug-addled, inherently lazy, just not that smart. You might get them to work effectively if you stand over them and supervise every action and tell them exactly what to do, but then you're paying more than double for the same work (the person "working" plus the person supervising).

I'd rather import immigrants who know how to work and pay welfare to the addled to stay the hell out of the way of the productive. It's cheaper in the long run.

how much of the blame for the "just plain lazy" and "not very smart" belongs to our welfare state and schools? would they be that lazy if there wasn't an easy out? I think education needs more focus on work skills than we have now. it is almost 100% geared towards tests and university prep. in other words we aren't teaching kids how to be employable.

The welfare state? Very little - anyone who thinks a welfare-based lifestyle is a life goal isn't likely to make a very motivated employee.

The schools? Quite a lot, but you're talking about generational-time-scale change to have an impact, and meanwhile there are millions of unemployable or minimally-employable already past school age who are unlikely to be affected.

I think both of the above serve to mask, at least somewhat, the devastating impact of the meth and opiod epidemics. Those are not the sole causes but don't seem to factor as much in discussions as they probably should.

But any society is going to have at least some minimal number of the unemployable.

When was the last time you guys were in a high school? There are tons of vocational training tracks. There is also a great deal of coordination between community / trade colleges and the high schools. There is a new fire / emergency services program at our local school. There are medical services, food services, construction, agriculture and business trade programs. At the middle school level we go on a field trip every year to our local community college to share with students just how many options other that the traditional 4 year college track. Students take interest and aptitude tests and surveys to try and get them thinking about their future. The problem is student apathy. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

(02-26-2017 11:22 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  When was the last time you guys were in a high school? There are tons of vocational training tracks. There is also a great deal of coordination between community / trade colleges and the high schools. There is a new fire / emergency services program at our local school. There are medical services, food services, construction, agriculture and business trade programs. At the middle school level we go on a field trip every year to our local community college to share with students just how many options other that the traditional 4 year college track. Students take interest and aptitude tests and surveys to try and get them thinking about their future. The problem is student apathy. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I know that they exist but there isn't much encouragement to go down that road IMHO. how much have we heard that you've "got to go to university" the past 30 years?

(02-26-2017 11:22 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  When was the last time you guys were in a high school? There are tons of vocational training tracks. There is also a great deal of coordination between community / trade colleges and the high schools. There is a new fire / emergency services program at our local school. There are medical services, food services, construction, agriculture and business trade programs. At the middle school level we go on a field trip every year to our local community college to share with students just how many options other that the traditional 4 year college track. Students take interest and aptitude tests and surveys to try and get them thinking about their future. The problem is student apathy. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I graduated from HS 11 years ago. We had 0 vocational classes. Kids could go to the career center for half the day to learn a trade, but only a handful of kids from my school actually did that. I think more would have participated if those classes existed on campus rather than a different campus 15 miles away.

(02-26-2017 11:24 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:22 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  When was the last time you guys were in a high school? There are tons of vocational training tracks. There is also a great deal of coordination between community / trade colleges and the high schools. There is a new fire / emergency services program at our local school. There are medical services, food services, construction, agriculture and business trade programs. At the middle school level we go on a field trip every year to our local community college to share with students just how many options other that the traditional 4 year college track. Students take interest and aptitude tests and surveys to try and get them thinking about their future. The problem is student apathy. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I know that they exist but there isn't much encouragement to go down that road IMHO. how much have we heard that you've "got to go to university" the past 30 years?

There is a huge amount of encouragement where I live. More students are on these tracks than the college track.

(02-26-2017 11:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:24 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:22 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  When was the last time you guys were in a high school? There are tons of vocational training tracks. There is also a great deal of coordination between community / trade colleges and the high schools. There is a new fire / emergency services program at our local school. There are medical services, food services, construction, agriculture and business trade programs. At the middle school level we go on a field trip every year to our local community college to share with students just how many options other that the traditional 4 year college track. Students take interest and aptitude tests and surveys to try and get them thinking about their future. The problem is student apathy. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I know that they exist but there isn't much encouragement to go down that road IMHO. how much have we heard that you've "got to go to university" the past 30 years?

There is a huge amount of encouragement where I live. More students are on these tracks than the college track.

That's great to hear. I graduated high school 14 years ago and none of this existed in the high school I went to (a public school in Charlotte). Hope to see more of this in all schools.

What jobs are these illegal immigrants taking? More importantly, what jobs are they taking that anyone on this message board would be willing to take?

It's not like these people are taking 6 figure admin positions guys, let's be real here.