Guy wins girls wrestling tournament...

***creepy golf clap***

I feel sorry for the girls.

(02-26-2017 07:22 PM)q5sys Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 03:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  here's no reason for a Trans ban, other than an attempt to keep Trans kids invisible and marginalized.

For a person who seems to be championing for inclusion and acceptance... it's odd that you have such a binary view of possible solutions. If you believe that gender/sex isn't binary... why do you think that a complex issue like this can only have two options... ie "Agree with with my solution to the issue" or "You are engaging in actions with Intent to marginalize trans people."

There's more than two colors on that LGBTQIA rainbow ya know... there's isn't a single solution that will cover every situation for every unique person that identifies somewhere on that rainbow.

All the 'solutions' posited here all single out the Trans kids for exculsion.

(02-26-2017 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 04:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 04:28 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 03:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 02:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I understand your wanting inclusion for transgender student athletes. They already have challenges that a "normal high school student doesn't have and the transgender issue compounds an already difficult time in a person's life.

However in high school athletics there are rules for every game and those who wish to participate. They weren't created to personally disadvantage specific students, they are to try and have fair competition and avoid unfair advantage.
• There are rules such as a maximum of 4 years of competing so that you don't have kids flunking to gain a size advantage.
• There are rules that you can't compete in high school if you are over 20 years old no matter what age you started high school so you don't have over 20 years old competing.
• There are very specific rules against performance enhancing drugs. Student athletes regularly must be subjected to drug tests so that they are performing clean. (You made a charge that there are student athletes under the care of doctors getting PEDs and that athletic governing bodies are allowing this.... If you are going to make the charge you should provide proof. That is a very serious ethical charge to make against doctors. I'm sure there have been random cases of this but it is not widespread.)

As an example of a similar eligibility issue, a 20 year old who is still in high school could argue that his not being eligbil to participate is age discrimination and the 20 year old might legally have a case but that rule exists for fair competition, not to punish the rare 20 year old still in high school. That rule also exists for safety reasons so you don't have a 20 year old man competing against a 14 year old teen.

Rules with regard to gender in competition are for much the same reasons. I don't believe they are intended to discriminate against trans students. These rules have been in place well before there were kids coming out as trans in high school. No boys in girls competitions and no girls in boys competition are for fair competition and safety. Can you imagine the unfairness of a 19 year old male transitioning to female competing against a 14 year old girl in wrestling? Or a 19 year old female transitioning to male getting to compete against girls? You can argue that the trans student should get to compete however they choose to but where is the fairness to the girls they are competing against? Just because they have a perceived tougher road in life for being trans doesn't mean they should be advantaged in high school athletics.

I have actually argued a case in front of the OHSAA for an exemption to the rule for a max of 4 years of high school competition for a young man. He had started high school at 12 at an accelerated school in one state and switched to a traditional high school in another. As a freshman at the new school he was told he had two years of eligibility left. He was only 14 years old as a freshman and had 4 years of high school ahead and would finish high school at 18. He asked for two additional years of eligibility so that he could compete all the way through high school or to be allowed to train only and not compete as a freshmen and sophomore in order to save his two remaining years of eligibility for his jr and sr years. In this case, this young man wasn't going to get any kind of competitive advantage as he was age appropriate. But the OHSAA Rules state that in total a student gets 4 consecutive years of high school competition so this student's "clock" started ticking at 12 and ended at 16. No exceptions. He wasn't happy about it but sucked it up and went on. A decision he had taken in another state to start high school at 12 ended up hurting his ability to compete but rules are rules.

Texas' leaders including the UIL, appear to be laser focused on trying to needlessly abuse Trans kids, for the sport of it. One only needs to look at the legislation to see that.

I think that part of the problem that many LGBT kids face is systematic typecasting and exclusion from cool sports. Excluding them either by policy (UIL) or de facto (allowing the religious groups to determine who makes teams - or turning public school teams into evangelizing efforts that demean non-Christian and LGBT kids) is part of the process to encourage marginalization of LGBT kids. The FCA doesn't target the chess club for a reason.

If there's a benefit to participating in physical team sports, that is so pressing that the state of Texas spends HUNDREDS of millions of taxpayer funds on it each year, then LGBT persons should be able to compete VISIBLY. Or they can just shut down all the sports. Equal protection....means Equal protection.

The UIL rule was passed last year.

Males and females are taking certain PED and do compete in UIL events. Have been for years. If you get an allergy, you can get steroids. You don't lose the ability to compete automatically due to that. They get notes from doctors and they're usually allowed to compete. There's no reason for a Trans ban, other than an attempt to keep Trans kids invisible and marginalized.

If what you are saying is true then it is a Texas problem not a national one.

Oddly enough, Ohio (that's where you're from, right?) is actually WORSE on Trans inclusion in some respects. Ohio refuses to allow a gender change even AFTER reassignment surgery. Born male, stay male. No matter what.

So in Ohio, if there was a case where reassignment has taken place, that Transman would be required to play on the girls team, even if he has a *****. If the Ohio leagues mandate legal gender being controlling.

You are FLAT OUT WRONG on OHSAA's transgender policy which has been in effect since 2014. The OHSAA will allow transgendered athletes to compete in their new gender if their transformation is complete and there are no physical advantages gained.
The OHSAA policy with regard to transgenders is concerned with fairness in competition and safety.

…A transgender athlete's potential for clearance rests largely with his or her commitment to hormone or testosterone treatments.

• A male-to-female (MTF) transgender athlete who is taking prescribed hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate on a boys' team at any time.
But before a MTF transgender athlete can compete in a girls' sport, the athlete must either complete a minimum of one year of hormone treatment or show the OHSAA medical evidence that there are no physical or physiological advantages over genetic females.

• A female-to-male (FTM) transgender athlete who has not yet begun testosterone treatment for gender transition can compete on a boys' team.
But once testosterone treatment has begun, the athlete must show the OHSAA that muscle mass doesn't exceed that of a typical genetic boy of the same age. Also, a physician must monitor hormone levels every few months and report to the OHSAA.¬

http://www.cleveland.com/hssports/blog/i...for_a.html

I was referring to how Ohio treats Trans people in general, not the OHSAA.

(02-26-2017 07:14 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 06:34 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 03:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Males and females are taking certain PED and do compete in UIL events. Have been for years. If you get an allergy, you can get steroids. You don't lose the ability to compete automatically due to that. They get notes from doctors and they're usually allowed to compete. There's no reason for a Trans ban, other than an attempt to keep Trans kids invisible and marginalized.

https://www.verywell.com/anabolic-steroi...nce-190456

Here's some information for anyone who thinks providers are prescribing P.E.D.s to teenagers on a regular basis. Complete horse manure.

Thank you. There will always be cheaters but it is not on some systemic mass scale.

They aren't cheating. You guys continue to insist that Trans kids be excluded if they DARE to be Trans. Its the same as a ban.

(02-26-2017 10:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 07:14 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 06:34 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 03:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Males and females are taking certain PED and do compete in UIL events. Have been for years. If you get an allergy, you can get steroids. You don't lose the ability to compete automatically due to that. They get notes from doctors and they're usually allowed to compete. There's no reason for a Trans ban, other than an attempt to keep Trans kids invisible and marginalized.

https://www.verywell.com/anabolic-steroi...nce-190456

Here's some information for anyone who thinks providers are prescribing P.E.D.s to teenagers on a regular basis. Complete horse manure.

Thank you. There will always be cheaters but it is not on some systemic mass scale.

They aren't cheating. You guys continue to insist that Trans kids be excluded if they DARE to be Trans. Its the same as a ban.

Can you be trans without PEDs?

(02-26-2017 10:53 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 10:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 07:14 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 06:34 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 03:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Males and females are taking certain PED and do compete in UIL events. Have been for years. If you get an allergy, you can get steroids. You don't lose the ability to compete automatically due to that. They get notes from doctors and they're usually allowed to compete. There's no reason for a Trans ban, other than an attempt to keep Trans kids invisible and marginalized.

https://www.verywell.com/anabolic-steroi...nce-190456

Here's some information for anyone who thinks providers are prescribing P.E.D.s to teenagers on a regular basis. Complete horse manure.

Thank you. There will always be cheaters but it is not on some systemic mass scale.

They aren't cheating. You guys continue to insist that Trans kids be excluded if they DARE to be Trans. Its the same as a ban.

Can you be trans without PEDs?

Of course you can. It is all in your head anyway. All anyone has to do now is just engage in their own delusions and demand acceptance. Drug use and mutilation comes in the later part of this disorder.

(02-26-2017 06:06 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Simple solution. Women's/girls' competitions are open only to genetic females not taking any gender alteration drugs that would tend to be performance enhancing. Men's/boys' competitions are open competitions, open to all.

Nope..Not good enough for Tom. No compromise...period. The alphabets must get their way 100 percent.

Full equality. Nothing more, nothing less. And no, passing a bunch of rules in order to stop participation by Trans kids is targeting.

The issue with Owl's plan is that it makes M to F Trans kids compete in their incorrect gender. You want male wrestlers to compete against a kid with boobs?

The real problem is that the UIL decided to look at it from a Texas GOP perspective, and forced Mack to choose between competing against girls or not compete at all.

Tom, this happens everywhere. I've done it. Almost lost until coach figured out what she was trying to do.

Someone missed the Saved by the bell episode where Slater wrestling a girl was a sign of progress LOL

Folks. There was a saying back when on the first message board I joined: Don't feed the troll.

That's what Tom is. See we can provide all this information and his only defense is we want to exclude someone from participating or my favorite why don't you go through high school as the wrong sex for years. And when he's really beaten, how very Christian of you. Best thing to do is to ignore him.

I swear to GOD this is why you guy's OWN THE MEDIA! You could not escape the Texas wrestler story this weekend. On the local news. In every newspaper. It's absolutely amazing! WTF do I care in NW Ohio about a Texas wrestler?, but it is on every damn news cycle. You can't escape it and it's a story damn friendly to the right.

This is just another example of the RIGHT controlling the narrative of the country.

(02-27-2017 08:48 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I swear to GOD this is why you guy's OWN THE MEDIA! You could not escape the Texas wrestler story this weekend. On the local news. In every newspaper. It's absolutely amazing! WTF do I care in NW Ohio about a Texas wrestler?, but it is on every damn news cycle. You can't escape it and it's a story damn friendly to the right.

This is just another example of the RIGHT controlling the narrative of the country.

No, it's another example of the 24/7 news media latching on to anything that has some controversy to it - and plastering in nationwide, nonstop.

It's what they all do for clicks and views........and it makes it appear that things in the country are much worse than they were in the past.

(02-27-2017 08:48 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is just another example of the RIGHT controlling the narrative of the country.

We have Russia hacking the DNC and this is what the news is talking about. You guys own the media and the sickest thing. They have you convinced they don't. Absolutely amazing to me. Distract distract distract.

(02-27-2017 08:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We have Russia hacking the DNC and this is what the news is talking about. You guys own the media and the sickest thing. They have you convinced they don't. Absolutely amazing to me. Distract distract distract.

Is this serious?

RUSSIANS!

(02-27-2017 09:01 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 08:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We have Russia hacking the DNC and this is what the news is talking about. You guys own the media and the sickest thing. They have you convinced they don't. Absolutely amazing to me. Distract distract distract.

Is this serious?

He must be on some firebrand leftist newsletter list and he's all fired up about the Rooskies this week. The cause celeb.

That you guys own the media and the narratives......... Serious as a heart attack........................


It's political ju jitsu......... and you are miles ahead of the D's and I am truly jealous of it. You guys can make a national news story pop up out of thin air. You make mountains out of molehills and when something is really bad. You diffuse it and cast it aside without nary a peep. It really is amazing. If this situation were reversed there would be riots in the streets. Buildings would be blowing up and you wouldn't have milk or bread in stores.

Wow

Wait the right owns the media and narrative...

So why didn't the media have the polls right?

(02-27-2017 09:25 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  That you guys own the media and the narratives......... Serious as a heart attack........................


It's political ju jitsu......... and you are miles ahead of the D's and I am truly jealous of it. You guys can make a national news story pop up out of thin air. You make mountains out of molehills and when something is really bad. You diffuse it and cast it aside without nary a peep. It really is amazing. If this situation were reversed there would be riots in the streets. Buildings would be blowing up and you wouldn't have milk or bread in stores.

Mach, c'mon now. You're either just not paying attention or you're losing it. I know that Trump winning was tough on liberals but damn dude. Trump has been eviscerated by the most popular media outlets since going back prior to the election. You've got the NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC and celebrities on top of all that attacking him constantly. How can you possibly believe that Conservatives have the media on their side now?

because you guys control the narrative far far far more than you are willing to admit. This case is just another example. WTF do I care about a Texas wrestler but I am inundated with it. Every media outlet I look at had a story on it. The light bulb went off. This is a great example on how the right distracts and controls the narrative. I don't give a shyt. I do care about Trump's team working with the Russians to hack the DNC. I do care a lot of people are turning up dead associated with the Steele dossier. These aren't coincidences folks.