http://www.economist.com/news/united-sta...rsc=dg%7Ca

Quote: because the unemployment rate doesn’t count people who have given up looking for work, some argue that it underestimates the true extent of joblessness. So the second indicator is labour-force participation, which counts workers, employed or not, as a percentage of the working-age population. This has fallen steadily, from 87% in 1948 to 69% today. For WWCM it has declined to 59% (a proportionate gap of 15%, compared with an average of 10% between 1994 and 2001).

Finally, over the past 27 years, average hourly wages have risen by 2.9% a year before adjusting for inflation. Meanwhile the hourly earnings of WWCM (industries weighted by their share of WWCM employees) have increased by 2.8% a year. A small difference but, when compounded over 27 years, the gap in wage levels between all workers and WWCM has widened from an average of 3.7% in 1990-92 to 6.9% over the past two years.

Hence Trump

I think it's saying 41% of white men with a HS diploma or less, ages 25-65, are not currently working. Not that 41% have given up all together. Still a high number though.

This is obviously posted to show how tough it is to be a white man today (LOL), but not sure I'm seeing that. The number is 41% for white men with no education past high school. It's 31% for all people... is that really that big of a gap when you are including the people with college degrees? What are the numbers for white men with a HS diploma or less vs. minority men with a HS diploma or less? That would be a more accurate comparison.

I'm sure there will be a lot of boo hooing for the poor, neglected white man in this thread. I seem to remember, back when the $15 minimum wage was big in the national news (I don't support that BTW), the tone was quite different. Lots of "if you want more money, go to college or learn a trade!". Mocking and visceral anger toward these people (who were actually working these miserable jobs instead of just giving up). Why would that not apply here?

This is the world we live in now. Those high paying manufacturing jobs are gone and they are not coming back. An unskilled, uneducated worker is not going to have the same kind of opportunities they had 30 years ago. That goes for all people, not just the white man.

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  I think it's saying 41% of white men with a HS diploma or less, ages 25-65, are not currently working. Not that 41% have given up all together. Still a high number though.

"working class"
do you read or just not comprehend?

(02-25-2017 09:42 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  I think it's saying 41% of white men with a HS diploma or less, ages 25-65, are not currently working. Not that 41% have given up all together. Still a high number though.

"working class"
do you read or just not comprehend?

Oh the irony.

41% of white working class men (which in this case means men with a high school diploma or less, ages 25-65. Exactly as I stated) are not employed. That does not mean that 41% have "given up" as your thread title incorrectly stated. A portion of those 41% are actively looking for work, so they have not "given up".

Do you have a problem with the fact that I clarified exactly what "working class" means in the context of the article? Because there is no set definition for what exactly "working class" means. A highly skilled mechanic or plumber with an associates degree would probably be considered "working class" by most, but would not be included in this data.

I know exactly what it means. 41% are unemployed or have given up. I wasn't trying to mislead. corrected title btw.

(02-25-2017 07:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Hence Trump

And the Democrats STILL are in full blown denial.

Guys. What are we arguing here? We all know that those are quite conceivable. In my experience the only "real guaranteed shot" these guys have is the military. I don't think you will see improvement in manufacturing either even if they bring those corps back. It will be automated with robots.

I keep saying this and I know some of you agree with me. We have entered a time of economic Darwinism.

(02-25-2017 11:13 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. What are we arguing here? We all know that those are quite conceivable. In my experience the only "real guaranteed shot" these guys have is the military. I don't think you will see improvement in manufacturing either even if they bring those corps back. It will be automated with robots.

I keep saying this and I know some of you agree with me. We have entered a time of economic Darwinism.

That is the Democratic approach (and for many of the Republicans as well). Those jobs are lost so we can't worry about the 70% of the population that doesn't have a college degree.

That philosophy is unacceptable. Its also a false defeatism. Will it return to the 50s and 60s when much of the industrialized world was in ruins and the US was dominant? No. But that doesn't mean the US can't manufacture anything. The Germans and Japanese do. And they have the same wage structure disadvantages that we do compared to the third world. We have better efficiency. There are costs to transporting things across an ocean. We have a great supply of natural resources and a superb freight transportation system with our rails, roads, rivers and runways.

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  An unskilled, uneducated worker is not going to have the same kind of opportunities they had 30 years ago. That goes for all people, not just the white man.

And yet the illegal immigrants continue to cross the border and apparently have success finding work.

(02-25-2017 01:30 PM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  An unskilled, uneducated worker is not going to have the same kind of opportunities they had 30 years ago. That goes for all people, not just the white man.

And yet the illegal immigrants continue to cross the border and apparently have success finding work.

They have success finding work because they are willing to do jobs that the white working class man is not willing to do for the wages paid for said work...roofing, drywall, blacktopping, concrete, farm field labor, busing tables, dishwashing, house and business cleaning, etc.

(02-25-2017 04:21 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 01:30 PM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  An unskilled, uneducated worker is not going to have the same kind of opportunities they had 30 years ago. That goes for all people, not just the white man.

And yet the illegal immigrants continue to cross the border and apparently have success finding work.

They have success finding work because they are willing to do jobs that the white working class man is not willing to do for the wages paid for said work...roofing, drywall, blacktopping, concrete, farm field labor, busing tables, dishwashing, house and business cleaning, etc.

It's not just white working class men.........

(02-25-2017 04:21 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 01:30 PM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  An unskilled, uneducated worker is not going to have the same kind of opportunities they had 30 years ago. That goes for all people, not just the white man.

And yet the illegal immigrants continue to cross the border and apparently have success finding work.

They have success finding work because they are willing to do jobs that the white working class man is not willing to do for the wages paid for said work...roofing, drywall, blacktopping, concrete, farm field labor, busing tables, dishwashing, house and business cleaning, etc.

and a lot of the problem with the wages is that have flooded the labor pool. white people have families here and have to provide for them. many of the immigrants, especially illegals, have family in Mexico where a U.S. dollar goes a lot further.

Sounds like a bunch of lazy cucks

Convince the next generation to take their education seriously. Huge numbers currently don't care about school at all. We can't retain everybody. They have to be in large part self-motivated. I've never seen it this bad in my 30 years in education.

(02-26-2017 11:05 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Convince the next generation to take their education seriously. Huge numbers currently don't care about school at all. We can't retain everybody. They have to be in large part self-motivated. I've never seen it this bad in my 30 years in education.

We've got more with an education who don't really have one.

Its only 30% with a college education. Economic policy based on everyone going to college is unrealistic.

(02-26-2017 11:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:05 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Convince the next generation to take their education seriously. Huge numbers currently don't care about school at all. We can't retain everybody. They have to be in large part self-motivated. I've never seen it this bad in my 30 years in education.

We've got more with an education who don't really have one.

Its only 30% with a college education. Economic policy based on everyone going to college is unrealistic.

Who said everyone was suppose to go to a 4 year college? I'm talking about the next generation learning to read and comprehend, complete basic math computations, develop a general understanding of science and history that allows them to be reasonably informed, think critically and work both on their own and cooperatively. I'm talking about a basic education the creates an opportunity to grow and learn throughout their lifetimes. Only when you have these basics will you have a workforce that can survive in the real world. It has to happen long before decisions are being made four year college, trade school, skills certifications etc.

(02-26-2017 11:45 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:05 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Convince the next generation to take their education seriously. Huge numbers currently don't care about school at all. We can't retain everybody. They have to be in large part self-motivated. I've never seen it this bad in my 30 years in education.

We've got more with an education who don't really have one.

Its only 30% with a college education. Economic policy based on everyone going to college is unrealistic.

Who said everyone was suppose to go to a 4 year college? I'm talking about the next generation learning to read and comprehend, complete basic math computations, develop a general understanding of science and history that allows them to be reasonably informed, think critically and work both on their own and cooperatively. I'm talking about a basic education the creates an opportunity to grow and learn throughout their lifetimes. Only when you have these basics will you have a workforce that can survive in the real world. It has to happen long before decisions are being made four year college, trade school, skills certifications etc.

Sounds like you are saying our public school system sucks.

(02-25-2017 01:30 PM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:16 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  An unskilled, uneducated worker is not going to have the same kind of opportunities they had 30 years ago. That goes for all people, not just the white man.

And yet the illegal immigrants continue to cross the border and apparently have success finding work.

Yeah and I have zero doubt that these workers who have just "given up" on finding a job could find a job as a busboy or picking fruit or any of these other great jobs that the illegal immigrants are finding.

This isn't a race problem or a nationality problem. It's an education and a motivation problem. When this issue is presented in the context of the inner cities, the narrative around these parts is that those "welfare queens" are lazy and unmotivated, and they need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get off the government teat. Why is it any different for this segment of whites people that have just given up looking for work (the answer: it's not).

That's not to say I agree completely with that narrative. I don't think all of these people are lazy or unmotivated or stupid. People come from different circumstances, backgrounds, family situations. For a kid who grows up homeless or on some dirt poor rural farm, it's not as simple as "working hard and getting an education".

So what's the answer? It's not as simple as "bringing jobs back" or "making America great again". Back in the good old days, maybe you could go straight from high school to a job in a factory or assembly line, and make enough to support a family and own a house and have a comfortable retirement. That ship has sailed, and those jobs are only going to continue to shrink as innovation improves.

I think the simple answer is we have to give those unskilled workers a chance to become skilled. That's through education. Not necessarily the "go to a 4 year college, get a degree, have a great life" fairy tale that's being taught in schools. That's not for everybody. Associates degrees, trade schools, maybe even apprenticeships. That's where the focus needs to be.

(02-26-2017 11:48 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:45 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 11:05 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Convince the next generation to take their education seriously. Huge numbers currently don't care about school at all. We can't retain everybody. They have to be in large part self-motivated. I've never seen it this bad in my 30 years in education.

We've got more with an education who don't really have one.

Its only 30% with a college education. Economic policy based on everyone going to college is unrealistic.

Who said everyone was suppose to go to a 4 year college? I'm talking about the next generation learning to read and comprehend, complete basic math computations, develop a general understanding of science and history that allows them to be reasonably informed, think critically and work both on their own and cooperatively. I'm talking about a basic education the creates an opportunity to grow and learn throughout their lifetimes. Only when you have these basics will you have a workforce that can survive in the real world. It has to happen long before decisions are being made four year college, trade school, skills certifications etc.

Sounds like you are saying our public school system sucks.

I'm saying self-motivation is the key to success and that I have observed a decline in that quality in recent years. It is a societal problem.