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How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #61
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-21-2017 07:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 07:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 06:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Youngstown St as an FBS school makes a lot of sense. There really isn't a lot seperating them from the MAC schools, they were just slow to move to DI and ultimately the spot in the MAC that could have been theirs went to Buffalo.

There is a HUGE difference between YSU and the 6 Ohio MAC schools. The gap between Toledo/Miami/Ohio/Akron/Kent and Youngstown State is almost as big as the gap between Ohio State and the MAC schools (BG is a closer comparison but it's still heads and shoulders above YSU).

A better comparison school for YSU is Eastern Michigan. And everyone is always talking about how EMU should be kicked out of the MAC.

Enrollment
58,322 - Ohio State
44,388 - Cincinnati
30,067 - Kent
25,177 - Akron
23,701 - Ohio
22,974 - Eastern Michigan
21,594 - Toledo
18,907 - Miami
18,756 - BG
13,381 - Youngstown State

US News Ranking
Ohio State (56, national)
Miami (82, national)
Ohio (129, national)
Cincinnati (135, national)
BG (173, national)
Kent (194, national)
Akron (207-270, national)
Toledo (207-270, national)
Eastern Michigan (77, Midwestern regional universities)
Youngstown (rank not published, Midwestern regional universities)

Number of Doctoral Degrees Awarded, 2015
726 - Ohio State (ranked 9th)
213 - Cincinnati (90)
167 - Kent (110)
136 - Toledo (123)
129 - Ohio (127)
121 - Akron (131)
78 - BG (174)
69 - Miami (185)
14 - Eastern Michigan (ranked 315)
0 - Youngstown (ranked below 423)

R&D expenditures
817 million - Ohio State (20th)
436 million - Cincinnati (51st)
61 million - Ohio (174th)
58 million - Akron (177th)
52 million - Toledo (190th)
38 million - Kent (214th)
16 million - Miami (284th)
8 million - BG (345th)
3.3 million - Youngstown State (438th)
1.8 million - Eastern Michigan (534th)

Youngstown St will never get an invite from any existing FBS conference. They are very fortunate to be in the Horizon. Going up as an independent is their only FBS option.

Why in the h*** did the MAC take in EMU? EMU is only slightly above Youngstown. Grand Valley St or Wayne St would be much better fits for the MAC. Know GVSU was a young school when EMU was added, but Wayne St was a relative academic power in comparison to EMU.


Wayne State was a former founding member of the MAC.
02-21-2017 10:46 PM
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Schadenfreude Online
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Post: #62
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-21-2017 07:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Why in the h*** did the MAC take in EMU?

You are not the first person to ask this question.

The core seven MAC schools were Ohio, Miami, Bowling Green, Kent State, Toledo, Western Michigan, and Marshall. These schools have all been together since the mid-1950s (except Marshall, which was removed from the league after 1969, following a recruiting scandal).

In the early 1970s, the MAC decided to expand by adding Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Ball State, and Northern Illinois. All were Division II programs that wanted to move up. Perhaps Eastern Michigan didn't seem very different from the others at the time.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2017 11:36 AM by Schadenfreude.)
02-22-2017 07:59 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #63
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-21-2017 10:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 07:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 07:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 06:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Youngstown St as an FBS school makes a lot of sense. There really isn't a lot seperating them from the MAC schools, they were just slow to move to DI and ultimately the spot in the MAC that could have been theirs went to Buffalo.

There is a HUGE difference between YSU and the 6 Ohio MAC schools. The gap between Toledo/Miami/Ohio/Akron/Kent and Youngstown State is almost as big as the gap between Ohio State and the MAC schools (BG is a closer comparison but it's still heads and shoulders above YSU).

A better comparison school for YSU is Eastern Michigan. And everyone is always talking about how EMU should be kicked out of the MAC.

Enrollment
58,322 - Ohio State
44,388 - Cincinnati
30,067 - Kent
25,177 - Akron
23,701 - Ohio
22,974 - Eastern Michigan
21,594 - Toledo
18,907 - Miami
18,756 - BG
13,381 - Youngstown State

US News Ranking
Ohio State (56, national)
Miami (82, national)
Ohio (129, national)
Cincinnati (135, national)
BG (173, national)
Kent (194, national)
Akron (207-270, national)
Toledo (207-270, national)
Eastern Michigan (77, Midwestern regional universities)
Youngstown (rank not published, Midwestern regional universities)

Number of Doctoral Degrees Awarded, 2015
726 - Ohio State (ranked 9th)
213 - Cincinnati (90)
167 - Kent (110)
136 - Toledo (123)
129 - Ohio (127)
121 - Akron (131)
78 - BG (174)
69 - Miami (185)
14 - Eastern Michigan (ranked 315)
0 - Youngstown (ranked below 423)

R&D expenditures
817 million - Ohio State (20th)
436 million - Cincinnati (51st)
61 million - Ohio (174th)
58 million - Akron (177th)
52 million - Toledo (190th)
38 million - Kent (214th)
16 million - Miami (284th)
8 million - BG (345th)
3.3 million - Youngstown State (438th)
1.8 million - Eastern Michigan (534th)

Youngstown St will never get an invite from any existing FBS conference. They are very fortunate to be in the Horizon. Going up as an independent is their only FBS option.

Why in the h*** did the MAC take in EMU? EMU is only slightly above Youngstown. Grand Valley St or Wayne St would be much better fits for the MAC. Know GVSU was a young school when EMU was added, but Wayne St was a relative academic power in comparison to EMU.


Wayne State was a former founding member of the MAC.

Wayne University (now Wayne State) was a founder of the MAC, but they pulled out before conference play began. The school had just started up athletics in 1917 and had lofty ambitions but the money and facilities were not there. There best sport early on actually was gymnastics.

Things would have been really interesting if Western Reserve (later merged with Case Institute of Technology to become Case Western Reserve) had not de-emphasized sports. The made the decision to be more like a MIT. With their market, academics, medical center and research prowess they had to be potential to have a profile more similar to Duke academically and athletically.
02-22-2017 08:21 AM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #64
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-21-2017 07:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 07:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 06:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Youngstown St as an FBS school makes a lot of sense. There really isn't a lot seperating them from the MAC schools, they were just slow to move to DI and ultimately the spot in the MAC that could have been theirs went to Buffalo.

There is a HUGE difference between YSU and the 6 Ohio MAC schools. The gap between Toledo/Miami/Ohio/Akron/Kent and Youngstown State is almost as big as the gap between Ohio State and the MAC schools (BG is a closer comparison but it's still heads and shoulders above YSU).

A better comparison school for YSU is Eastern Michigan. And everyone is always talking about how EMU should be kicked out of the MAC.

Enrollment
58,322 - Ohio State
44,388 - Cincinnati
30,067 - Kent
25,177 - Akron
23,701 - Ohio
22,974 - Eastern Michigan
21,594 - Toledo
18,907 - Miami
18,756 - BG
13,381 - Youngstown State

US News Ranking
Ohio State (56, national)
Miami (82, national)
Ohio (129, national)
Cincinnati (135, national)
BG (173, national)
Kent (194, national)
Akron (207-270, national)
Toledo (207-270, national)
Eastern Michigan (77, Midwestern regional universities)
Youngstown (rank not published, Midwestern regional universities)

Number of Doctoral Degrees Awarded, 2015
726 - Ohio State (ranked 9th)
213 - Cincinnati (90)
167 - Kent (110)
136 - Toledo (123)
129 - Ohio (127)
121 - Akron (131)
78 - BG (174)
69 - Miami (185)
14 - Eastern Michigan (ranked 315)
0 - Youngstown (ranked below 423)

R&D expenditures
817 million - Ohio State (20th)
436 million - Cincinnati (51st)
61 million - Ohio (174th)
58 million - Akron (177th)
52 million - Toledo (190th)
38 million - Kent (214th)
16 million - Miami (284th)
8 million - BG (345th)
3.3 million - Youngstown State (438th)
1.8 million - Eastern Michigan (534th)

Youngstown St will never get an invite from any existing FBS conference. They are very fortunate to be in the Horizon. Going up as an independent is their only FBS option.

Why in the h*** did the MAC take in EMU? EMU is only slightly above Youngstown. Grand Valley St or Wayne St would be much better fits for the MAC. Know GVSU was a young school when EMU was added, but Wayne St was a relative academic power in comparison to EMU.

You have to remember Grand Valley State didn't open until 1963 and didn't become a university until 1987. In 1987 they only had about 8,000 students. So they really haven't been an option for the MAC.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2017 10:22 AM by utpotts.)
02-22-2017 10:21 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #65
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
GVSU has no interest in FCS, let alone FBS.

You might as well advocate for Mt Union.
02-22-2017 11:50 AM
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lance99 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-21-2017 02:18 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 12:06 PM)lance99 Wrote:  
(02-20-2017 12:18 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(02-20-2017 12:11 PM)lance99 Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 08:01 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  And I can't imagine the MAC ever extending an invitation.

^Both of these! YSU needs a Conference to call home and the last thing the MAC needs is another Ohio School. Even if all Five of the Ohio Schools left, they STILL would not take YSU07-coffee3

Six.





(The Toledo War is long over.)

I was not counting Ohio State04-cheers

Neither was the other poster since Ohio State is not in the MAC.

BGSU, Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Akron, and Kent State makes for 6 MAC Ohio schools. I know Akron is having budget problems but they have not collapsed yet so they still count 04-cheers .

If you count outside of the MAC then there are 8 adding in Ohio State and Cincinnati.

I keep forgetting about BG, my bad04-bow
02-22-2017 12:33 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #67
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-22-2017 11:50 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  GVSU has no interest in FCS, let alone FBS.
D
You might as well advocate for Mt Union.

They have no interest because they know no FCS conference has an interest. They aren't going to get their fans up for a DI move when football doesn't have a place.

Of course their admin would deny interest.
02-22-2017 02:55 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #68
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
Maybe.

But anyhow, I know a football team that is better than GVSU: E Michigan.


They actually had a pretty decent season last year. I hope it continues.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2017 03:20 PM by MplsBison.)
02-22-2017 03:19 PM
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Bull Offline
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Post: #69
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
Didn't YSU beat Pitt a few years ago? And play WV close recently? And FWIW, I thought Stambaugh Stadium was the biggest stadium in FCS... and being one-sided easily expandable.

Not saying YSU should jump, but I don't think it's that far fetched.
02-22-2017 04:23 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #70
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-22-2017 04:23 PM)Bull Wrote:  Not saying YSU should jump, but I don't think it's that far fetched.

On the field, and facilities wise ... absolutely not far fetched. I'd say they're one of the top five MVFC programs, so that puts them easily in the top 15 in FCS. Certainly capable of winning the NC at the FCS level ... they were right there last season. Very well known head coach, at the moment, as well.

And being in a DI conference with no football means that they wouldn't be held back on that aspect, if seriously considering FBS independence.


But I doubt the NCAA would grant them a waiver. Or any FCS team. None of them are anywhere close to the revenue that Liberty can pull in due to its unique situation.
02-22-2017 05:33 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #71
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-22-2017 03:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe.

But anyhow, I know a football team that is better than GVSU: E Michigan.


They actually had a pretty decent season last year. I hope it continues.
I don't wish ill will upon EMU, but GVSU has legitimate fan support. EMU students and alumni are practically in UMich's backyard, so the Wolverines got priority fan rights.
02-22-2017 05:34 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #72
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-22-2017 05:34 PM)NoDak Wrote:  EMU students and alumni are practically in UMich's backyard, so the Wolverines got priority fan rights.

... and the Wolverines and Spartans also get priority fan rights in Grand Rapids, Muskegon, Holland, etc. Not to mention that WMU probably gets more coverage than GVSU in Grand Rapids, especially last year
02-23-2017 11:37 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #73
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
(02-23-2017 11:37 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-22-2017 05:34 PM)NoDak Wrote:  EMU students and alumni are practically in UMich's backyard, so the Wolverines got priority fan rights.

... and the Wolverines and Spartans also get priority fan rights in Grand Rapids, Muskegon, Holland, etc. Not to mention that WMU probably gets more coverage than GVSU in Grand Rapids, especially last year

But GVSU has a fighting spirit about it. Haven't seen that at EMU. GVSU probably out draws EMU most years, and EMU is FBS
02-23-2017 12:46 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #74
RE: How long before Youngstown St and Jacksonville St apply for a waiver?
Okay, you mentioned about waivers. How long before D2 schools want to take the NCAA on this for them to get a waiver to join D1? There are several that wants D1 right now, but are not getting invites yet.

Merrimack, Southern New Hampshire, Bentley etc..... We could get several schools as Independents for D1. Bentley and Merrimack could get their football in the NEC as an affiliate.
02-23-2017 03:32 PM
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