(01-27-2017 06:46 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:43 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  not sure why people talk about academics in terms of conferences because the universities only compete in sports, not academics.

Agreed. Glad the ACC took the leap of faith with Louisville and overcame that stigma and hope in the future if the opportunity arises they do the same thing with West Virginia.

Cheers,
Neil

i don't think there is any stigma with Lville, WV, etc. they are universities so by default they should have solid academics or they are ripping people off.

(01-27-2017 09:38 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I agree with you for the most part Paco but I would say that conference affiliation does help. As you said, a Rhodes scholar likely wouldn't enroll at the UofL because of the ACC but the ACC affiliation has had an impact on admissions. The quality & quantity rose immediately. Obviously the UofL still has a ways to go to reach ACC standards & the ACC affiliation alone won't get us there but it does help, evident by the rise in admissions. Certainly former President Ramsey hard work & improvements had the largest impact but you still wouldn't have seen the same rise in admissions standards without the ACC affiliation. For the UofL & possibly FSU, the ACC is an ingredient to success. It helps build your reputation, helps to get the ball rolling faster.

You have to be careful when looking at snapshots instead of trends.

The ACC voted to add Louisville in late Nov 2012. Louisville began participating in the ACCAC in 2013 and official joined the conference on July 1, 2014.

Fall 2010
% admitted: 74.9
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 21 - 27
average GPA: 3.46

Fall 2011
% admitted: 72.7
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 21 - 28
average GPA: 3.46

Fall 2012
% admitted: 76.3
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.49

ACC Announcement Nov 28

Fall 2013
% admitted: 71.1
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.53

Officially Joined ACC July 1

Fall 2014
% admitted: 71.9
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.55

First year students would have applied to Louisville as an official ACC member

Fall 2015
% admitted: 71.7
25th -75th ACT percentile: 22 - 29
average GPA: 3.60

3 years before the announcement and 3 years after (the only 3 available). If you plot that out, did the ACC cause a significant bump or was it in line with a previously existing trend of improvement?

(01-27-2017 07:20 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 09:38 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I agree with you for the most part Paco but I would say that conference affiliation does help. As you said, a Rhodes scholar likely wouldn't enroll at the UofL because of the ACC but the ACC affiliation has had an impact on admissions. The quality & quantity rose immediately. Obviously the UofL still has a ways to go to reach ACC standards & the ACC affiliation alone won't get us there but it does help, evident by the rise in admissions. Certainly former President Ramsey hard work & improvements had the largest impact but you still wouldn't have seen the same rise in admissions standards without the ACC affiliation. For the UofL & possibly FSU, the ACC is an ingredient to success. It helps build your reputation, helps to get the ball rolling faster.

You have to be careful when looking at snapshots instead of trends.

The ACC voted to add Louisville in late Nov 2012. Louisville began participating in the ACCAC in 2013 and official joined the conference on July 1, 2014.

Fall 2010
% admitted: 74.9
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 21 - 27
average GPA: 3.46

Fall 2011
% admitted: 72.7
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 21 - 28
average GPA: 3.46

Fall 2012
% admitted: 76.3
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.49

ACC Announcement Nov 28

Fall 2013
% admitted: 71.1
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.53

Officially Joined ACC July 1

Fall 2014
% admitted: 71.9
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.55

First year students would have applied to Louisville as an official ACC member

Fall 2015
% admitted: 71.7
25th -75th ACT percentile: 22 - 29
average GPA: 3.60

3 years before the announcement and 3 years after (the only 3 available). If you plot that out, did the ACC cause a significant bump or was it in line with a previously existing trend of improvement?

Re: % admitted -- may we assume each in-coming class was about the same size, and the only thing that changed was the number of applicants? If so, that's certainly the kind of effect you might attribute to joining the ACC...

(01-27-2017 06:51 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:46 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:43 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  not sure why people talk about academics in terms of conferences because the universities only compete in sports, not academics.

Agreed. Glad the ACC took the leap of faith with Louisville and overcame that stigma and hope in the future if the opportunity arises they do the same thing with West Virginia.

Cheers,
Neil

i don't think there is any stigma with Lville, WV, etc. they are universities so by default they should have solid academics or they are ripping people off.

You're forgetting the public Ivy types. Both UGa and Clemson have very solid academics, but would they be considered public Ivies? I don't think so, but I like the fact that both of our universities are more worried about educating the people in our respective states than being snobby institutions that people often refer to in disgust!!! (see UNC & Texas, both public Ivies).

(01-27-2017 10:07 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  don't underestimate the value of being able to sell out your undergrad admissions at a higher price!

STICKER SHOCK

(01-27-2017 06:51 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:46 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:43 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  not sure why people talk about academics in terms of conferences because the universities only compete in sports, not academics.

Agreed. Glad the ACC took the leap of faith with Louisville and overcame that stigma and hope in the future if the opportunity arises they do the same thing with West Virginia.

Cheers,
Neil

i don't think there is any stigma with Lville, WV, etc. they are universities so by default they should have solid academics or they are ripping people off.

I think when we talk about academics in regard to athletics, the rule of assumption is that it's a combo of how academics relates to athletics admissions/standards for the student athletes.

As for there not being a "stigma" - well there was Gordon Gee's shot at the ACC back when they added Louisville questioning the academic integrity of all SEC schools and Louisville and how the Big Ten would never consider adding schools with such a low standard for academics as Louisville and Kentucky.

And I think you may be a bit naive to think that academics wasn't one of the main reasons given (how much it actually mattered I doubt anyone knows for sure - could reasonably be considered an easy smokescreen for other reasons not cited) for the ACC apparently not even considering WVU or Louisville when SU and Pitt were added back in 2011.

And those are the recent examples and doesn't include Miami being considered anathema to the ACC back in the late 1980s and early 1990s due to academics (or again, academics as related to athletic admissions/standards).

Cheers,
Neil

(01-28-2017 08:57 AM)omniorange Wrote:  And those are the recent examples and doesn't include Miami being considered anathema to the ACC back in the late 1980s and early 1990s due to academics (or again, academics as related to athletic admissions/standards).

Cheers,
Neil

WHAT U DON'T KNOW WON'T HURT U

(01-28-2017 09:31 AM)green Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 08:57 AM)omniorange Wrote:  And those are the recent examples and doesn't include Miami being considered anathema to the ACC back in the late 1980s and early 1990s due to academics (or again, academics as related to athletic admissions/standards).

Cheers,
Neil

WHAT U DON'T KNOW WON'T HURT U

What does the above have to do with my post?

Where Miami ranks three decades later has nothing to do with how they were viewed in the late 80s and early 90s. Particularly in terms of athletic academic standards.

Cheers,
Neil

(01-28-2017 10:17 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:31 AM)green Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 08:57 AM)omniorange Wrote:  And those are the recent examples and doesn't include Miami being considered anathema to the ACC back in the late 1980s and early 1990s due to academics (or again, academics as related to athletic admissions/standards).

Cheers,
Neil

WHAT U DON'T KNOW WON'T HURT U

What does the above have to do with my post?

Where Miami ranks three decades later has nothing to do with how they were viewed in the late 80s and early 90s. Particularly in terms of athletic academic standards.

Cheers,
Neil

You two are talking about 2 different things.

Miami has always been a great school (green's point), but, starting in 1980, the football team has been wildly different from the rest of the student body - usually in a bad way (Neil's point)

You're both right.

(01-27-2017 10:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 07:20 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 09:38 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I agree with you for the most part Paco but I would say that conference affiliation does help. As you said, a Rhodes scholar likely wouldn't enroll at the UofL because of the ACC but the ACC affiliation has had an impact on admissions. The quality & quantity rose immediately. Obviously the UofL still has a ways to go to reach ACC standards & the ACC affiliation alone won't get us there but it does help, evident by the rise in admissions. Certainly former President Ramsey hard work & improvements had the largest impact but you still wouldn't have seen the same rise in admissions standards without the ACC affiliation. For the UofL & possibly FSU, the ACC is an ingredient to success. It helps build your reputation, helps to get the ball rolling faster.

You have to be careful when looking at snapshots instead of trends.

The ACC voted to add Louisville in late Nov 2012. Louisville began participating in the ACCAC in 2013 and official joined the conference on July 1, 2014.

Fall 2010
% admitted: 74.9
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 21 - 27
average GPA: 3.46

Fall 2011
% admitted: 72.7
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 21 - 28
average GPA: 3.46

Fall 2012
% admitted: 76.3
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.49

ACC Announcement Nov 28

Fall 2013
% admitted: 71.1
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.53

Officially Joined ACC July 1

Fall 2014
% admitted: 71.9
25th - 75th ACT percentile: 22 - 28
average GPA: 3.55

First year students would have applied to Louisville as an official ACC member

Fall 2015
% admitted: 71.7
25th -75th ACT percentile: 22 - 29
average GPA: 3.60

3 years before the announcement and 3 years after (the only 3 available). If you plot that out, did the ACC cause a significant bump or was it in line with a previously existing trend of improvement?

Re: % admitted -- may we assume each in-coming class was about the same size, and the only thing that changed was the number of applicants? If so, that's certainly the kind of effect you might attribute to joining the ACC...

There's no doubt that the UofL has made great strides since 1995 and that the UofL is on an upward trajectory even without an ACC affiliation but my point is that it does help. Having the ACC affiliation aides the UofL in its academic recruitment. It's not an end to the means but it is an ingredient that helps achieve the goal & can arguably raise the ceiling.

http://uoflcardgame.com/u-of-l-dean-acc-...ing/35771/

Here's a look at the UofL improvements since 1995.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/new.../71275630/

Who a university associates itself with absolutely impacts how they are perceived. People make fun of "SEC academics" all the time regardless of the fact that UF, UGA and TAMU are decent universities. The fact that those universities are often lumped with Ole Miss, Mississippi State and LSU negatively impacts them IMO.

(01-29-2017 11:21 AM)CharmCityTiger Wrote:  Who a university associates itself with absolutely impacts how they are perceived. People make fun of "SEC academics" all the time regardless of the fact that UF, UGA and TAMU are decent universities. The fact that those universities are often lumped with Ole Miss, Mississippi State and LSU negatively impacts them IMO.

Not really. You have to get out of the world of college athletics and sports message boards.

Most of the population of the United States does not follow college sports enough, or sports in general, to name the members of college athletic conferences. That is even more true for the academics that make up university faculties. They just don't care. Vanderbilt and Florida suffer not one wit from playing Ole Miss in football.

I used to work a lot of undergraduate college fairs. I can't tell you the number of questions I've gotten about whether schools that everyone on these boards would easily know .... whether they played sports and what division they played sports in (yes this includes Pitt). Now usually they were schools not in the region of the fair was being held, but it wasn't an uncommon question. The people reading this board is not a cross section of the normal population of this country and for sure it is not a cross-section of people filling out peer-review forms for US News & World Report.

(01-28-2017 01:28 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:51 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:46 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:43 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  not sure why people talk about academics in terms of conferences because the universities only compete in sports, not academics.

Agreed. Glad the ACC took the leap of faith with Louisville and overcame that stigma and hope in the future if the opportunity arises they do the same thing with West Virginia.

Cheers,
Neil

i don't think there is any stigma with Lville, WV, etc. they are universities so by default they should have solid academics or they are ripping people off.

You're forgetting the public Ivy types. Both UGa and Clemson have very solid academics, but would they be considered public Ivies? I don't think so, but I like the fact that both of our universities are more worried about educating the people in our respective states than being snobby institutions that people often refer to in disgust!!! (see UNC & Texas, both public Ivies).

"Public Ivy" is a completely arbitrary designation given, originally, by an author named Richard Moll who wrote a college guide back in the 80s (and Pitt appeared in that book). It has since been co-opted by a couple other people who wanted to sell their own college guides. It is an absolutely meaningless designation outside of it being used in a university's marketing material.

(01-28-2017 01:28 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:51 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:46 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 06:43 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  not sure why people talk about academics in terms of conferences because the universities only compete in sports, not academics.

Agreed. Glad the ACC took the leap of faith with Louisville and overcame that stigma and hope in the future if the opportunity arises they do the same thing with West Virginia.

Cheers,
Neil

i don't think there is any stigma with Lville, WV, etc. they are universities so by default they should have solid academics or they are ripping people off.

You're forgetting the public Ivy types. Both UGa and Clemson have very solid academics, but would they be considered public Ivies? I don't think so, but I like the fact that both of our universities are more worried about educating the people in our respective states than being snobby institutions that people often refer to in disgust!!! (see UNC & Texas, both public Ivies).

Snobby?