I guess he has 2 more years on his contract. After all if Wright State is willing to fire a coach after a 20 win season with no Horizon title, why not at Toledo? While he was at Green Bay, I wonder how good was his team's defense. I seem to remember that Green Bay at one time play really good D. Don't know if this was under Coach K or another head coach.

I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

(01-14-2017 11:00 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

Amstutz? Please don't tell me he was doing coeds.

(01-14-2017 11:00 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

MOB fired Stan Joplin despite him being the second winningest coach in school history. It was in the aftermath of the point shaving scandal and had nothing to do with sexual behavior.

(01-15-2017 11:52 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 11:00 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

MOB fired Stan Joplin despite him being the second winningest coach in school history. It was in the aftermath of the point shaving scandal and had nothing to do with sexual behavior.

Thank God!!!! Sexual behavior is so unethical. Amstutz was apart of those scandal years too wasn't he? You know Scooter Mcdougle. Amstutz first losing season wasn't until 2007 and he was gone after 2008. Short leash if winning was only concern.

(01-15-2017 12:19 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 11:52 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 11:00 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

MOB fired Stan Joplin despite him being the second winningest coach in school history. It was in the aftermath of the point shaving scandal and had nothing to do with sexual behavior.

Thank God!!!! Sexual behavior is so unethical. Amstutz was apart of those scandal years too wasn't he? You know Scooter Mcdougle. Amstutz first losing season wasn't until 2007 and he was gone after 2008. Short leash if winning was only concern.

I thought Amstutz was promoted to Head of Football Operations or some such position.

(01-15-2017 12:31 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 12:19 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 11:52 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 11:00 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

MOB fired Stan Joplin despite him being the second winningest coach in school history. It was in the aftermath of the point shaving scandal and had nothing to do with sexual behavior.

Thank God!!!! Sexual behavior is so unethical. Amstutz was apart of those scandal years too wasn't he? You know Scooter Mcdougle. Amstutz first losing season wasn't until 2007 and he was gone after 2008. Short leash if winning was only concern.

I thought Amstutz was promoted to Head of Football Operations or some such position.

Amstutz was moved into an alumni position to fill the remainder of his contract NOT Promoted also he had all of the scandals involving home invasion by 1 of his players and several other disciplinary incidents with his players. On coach K BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR there are a lot of Gene Crosses and not very many coaches who will be more successful than coach K we had this very same discussion 10 years ago and what did that get us GENE CROSS

(01-15-2017 01:08 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 12:31 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 12:19 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 11:52 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 11:00 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I only know of three coaches fired under MOB, and all three were fired for unacceptable sexual behavior, if I recall correctly. Has MOB fired anyone just for losing?

MOB fired Stan Joplin despite him being the second winningest coach in school history. It was in the aftermath of the point shaving scandal and had nothing to do with sexual behavior.

Thank God!!!! Sexual behavior is so unethical. Amstutz was apart of those scandal years too wasn't he? You know Scooter Mcdougle. Amstutz first losing season wasn't until 2007 and he was gone after 2008. Short leash if winning was only concern.

I thought Amstutz was promoted to Head of Football Operations or some such position.

Amstutz was moved into an alumni position to fill the remainder of his contract NOT Promoted also he had all of the scandals involving home invasion by 1 of his players and several other disciplinary incidents with his players. On coach K BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR there are a lot of Gene Crosses and not very many coaches who will be more successful than coach K we had this very same discussion 10 years ago and what did that get us GENE CROSS

Good point. MOB fired Joplin and has had two chances since then to make the program stronger than it was under Joplin and whiffed on both of them. May as well keep the guy we have now, who's doing just OK, when there's no reason to think that the AD (who hired Cross) has the ability to find anybody better.

I a conference such as the MAC, with only one perennial entry into the NCAA tourney, exposure is limited - therefore recruiting is very difficult. Coach K runs a solid program IMO, expects his athletes to be good citizens, graduate, and handle themselves with integrity (which I think they have sans a very few exceptions.

Give the guy a chance, hope for some better recruits, win a title, and see where it goes from there. It's not like they have done much for many many years at it is (they have improved and are fun to watch).

Playing Russian roulette with coaches (see the Cleveland Browns) is NOT the answer. You need stability, consistency (as in "this is what we do and what we are"), and leadership. See the Pittsburgh Steelers (3 coaches in 47 years - 6 SB's to their credit).

My bad. I forgot how long MOB's been around. I was thinking of the cross country coach, the soccer coach, and Cross.

(01-15-2017 03:44 PM)Screwball Wrote:  I a conference such as the MAC, with only one perennial entry into the NCAA tourney, exposure is limited - therefore recruiting is very difficult. Coach K runs a solid program IMO, expects his athletes to be good citizens, graduate, and handle themselves with integrity (which I think they have sans a very few exceptions.

Give the guy a chance, hope for some better recruits, win a title, and see where it goes from there. It's not like they have done much for many many years at it is (they have improved and are fun to watch).

Playing Russian roulette with coaches (see the Cleveland Browns) is NOT the answer. You need stability, consistency (as in "this is what we do and what we are"), and leadership. See the Pittsburgh Steelers (3 coaches in 47 years - 6 SB's to their credit).

I just don't want us to think that these goals are mutually exclusive. Other MAC teams have decent, law-abiding kids who get good grades & graduate, AND win championships. One should never come at the expense of the other, nor should a coach who achieves one but not the other be shielded continuously from the higher expectations. I still think TK can do both.

I do too, which is why I think we should stay pat. Replacing him only makes the goal harder to achieve, IMO.

As someone said, we might end up with somebody worse.

Being a Rocket fan since as long as I can remember (and having a son who graduated from there, and played a couple of games on that floor in HS state tournament (regionals)) I'm a die hard. Call me a slappy, and a fan of Coach K, and remember the Bobby Nichols years.

Things have changed quite a bit since then, not only for the small schools, but college BB in general. The system is set up to hose the MAC schools, and won't get any better. Our expectations should be aware of that.

Can we just come up with a defense. I love the guy too but the results are hard to watch

I think that the results have been decent and don't warrant a change in coaching. My complaints about Coach K have more to do with him just rubbing me the wrong way. I know this was a long time ago, but I haven't forgiven him for running off Hayden Humes because he (mistakenly) thought that Humes wasn't good enough to help him build a winning team. Humes, who had done nothing wrong, was forced to leave UT after going to school here for two years, including a medical redshirt year. Fortunately for him, the NCAA gave him a waiver that allowed him to play immediately at UIC and not lose a year of eligibility. The treatment of Humes isn't my only complaint, but it's my biggest one. Wonnell's another one. When a walk-on gets playing time for three years and plays ahead of several scholarship players, he deserves a scholarship. K seems to have very little commitment to his players.

On a more recent note, I have no idea what Jon Jon did to deserve discipline, but requiring him to sit the first 90 seconds of a game doesn't really send much of a message, does it?

If a 14-year head coach has never been to the NCAA's, what would make you think the future will be different?

(01-15-2017 09:56 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  If a 14-year head coach has never been to the NCAA's, what would make you think the future will be different?

It took Yale coach James Jones 17 years to get to the NCAA's as a head coach when they went last season. While it may be true that a coach's chances decrease each year they don't make it to the Big Dance, I believe that Coach K can get it done.

(01-15-2017 11:35 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 09:56 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  If a 14-year head coach has never been to the NCAA's, what would make you think the future will be different?

It took Yale coach James Jones 17 years to get to the NCAA's as a head coach when they went last season. While it may be true that a coach's chances decrease each year they don't make it to the Big Dance, I believe that Coach K can get it done.

+1

Some thing tells me we are not headed in the right direction...AGAIN (readily admit to this having an emotional component that makes it hard to see straight at times in regards to our MBB program). Note: TK resurrected a true dumpster fire post Cross and he deserves a great deal of credit for doing that for sure however...
- that was NOT a good CMU team; should have been a very winnable road game
- we do not play defense to speak of and have not for most of the TK era
- our asst coach situation is and has not been good; coming and going with not much of an appearance of loyalty to TK
- are 7 plus years (?) out and still having to get lucky with transfers that save our bacon and allow us to be an AVERAGE team at best
- recruiting is not good when you think of what is said about our recruits (by TK about how good they are )and what happens once they get here and then often times leave
- just spent 2+M on a redo of the hoops offices in addition to having one if not the best facility in the MAC
- we are losing community interest each year
Why don't we deserve better?
I know how folks feel on this site and I understand many of the arguments vs. what I've said...we are not a good program to say the least.

(01-16-2017 05:21 PM)rocket 51 Wrote:  Some thing tells me we are not headed in the right direction...AGAIN (readily admit to this having an emotional component that makes it hard to see straight at times in regards to our MBB program). Note: TK resurrected a true dumpster fire post Cross and he deserves a great deal of credit for doing that for sure however...
- that was NOT a good CMU team; should have been a very winnable road game
- we do not play defense to speak of and have not for most of the TK era
- our asst coach situation is and has not been good; coming and going with not much of an appearance of loyalty to TK
- are 7 plus years (?) out and still having to get lucky with transfers that save our bacon and allow us to be an AVERAGE team at best
- recruiting is not good when you think of what is said about our recruits (by TK about how good they are )and what happens once they get here and then often times leave
- just spent 2+M on a redo of the hoops offices in addition to having one if not the best facility in the MAC
- we are losing community interest each year
Why don't we deserve better?
I know how folks feel on this site and I understand many of the arguments vs. what I've said...we are not a good program to say the least.

+1