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Couch Article on Lester Hire
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CincoDosAdios Offline
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Couch Article on Lester Hire
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/column.../96589744/

"He knows football. People like him. He reads the room well. He wanted desperately to be at WMU. Whether he wins or not remains to be seen. But in replacing Fleck, WMU wasn’t going to get anyone else who checked so many boxes."

PERFECT line. Some are upset by the hire. Some are OK with it. But hardly anyone is enamored with it...And after the magical, storybook, unbelievable season we just had under Fleck, it was inevitable that anyone other than Les Miles being hired was going to be a bit of a downer. It's how Lester goes about his business of recruiting and filling out his staff that will let us know how much of a dropoff we can realistically expect.

I, for one, am hopeful that it will be minimal.
01-15-2017 02:06 AM
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WMUslappy1 Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 02:06 AM)CincoDosAdios Wrote:  http://www.freep.com/story/sports/column.../96589744/

"He knows football. People like him. He reads the room well. He wanted desperately to be at WMU. Whether he wins or not remains to be seen. But in replacing Fleck, WMU wasn’t going to get anyone else who checked so many boxes."

PERFECT line. Some are upset by the hire. Some are OK with it. But hardly anyone is enamored with it...And after the magical, storybook, unbelievable season we just had under Fleck, it was inevitable that anyone other than Les Miles being hired was going to be a bit of a downer. It's how Lester goes about his business of recruiting and filling out his staff that will let us know how much of a dropoff we can realistically expect.

I, for one, am hopeful that it will be minimal.

We'll be fine. Players will need the continued support from the fans to help keep up the momentum. Not too much to ask
01-15-2017 09:43 AM
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Stampede your face!! Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
Let's remember Graham Couch isn't impartial. He loves the guys from the era that he covered Bronco football. I'm not saying his assessment is wrong, but he hasn't exactly been all about PJ because he replaced his buddy Bill Cubit whom he loved.
01-15-2017 11:18 AM
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Doo Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
Couch is also not afraid to be critical.
01-15-2017 12:25 PM
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BrownandGoldforever Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 12:25 PM)Doo Wrote:  Couch is also not afraid to be critical.

With all due respect to the guys that followed him at Mlive, Couch was the best sportswriter at the Kalamazoo Mlive in years.
01-15-2017 12:28 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 12:28 PM)BrownandGoldforever Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 12:25 PM)Doo Wrote:  Couch is also not afraid to be critical.

With all due respect to the guys that followed him at Mlive, Couch was the best sportswriter at the Kalamazoo Mlive in years.

I agree, Couch did a great job when he was on our beat.
01-15-2017 12:29 PM
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BrownandGoldforever Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 09:43 AM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 02:06 AM)CincoDosAdios Wrote:  http://www.freep.com/story/sports/column.../96589744/

"He knows football. People like him. He reads the room well. He wanted desperately to be at WMU. Whether he wins or not remains to be seen. But in replacing Fleck, WMU wasn’t going to get anyone else who checked so many boxes."

PERFECT line. Some are upset by the hire. Some are OK with it. But hardly anyone is enamored with it...And after the magical, storybook, unbelievable season we just had under Fleck, it was inevitable that anyone other than Les Miles being hired was going to be a bit of a downer. It's how Lester goes about his business of recruiting and filling out his staff that will let us know how much of a dropoff we can realistically expect.

I, for one, am hopeful that it will be minimal.

We'll be fine. Players will need the continued support from the fans to help keep up the momentum. Not too much to ask

The inevitable comparisons between Fleck and Lester have already begun and will continue for this fall and beyond. However, at some point, people have to realize that Lester isn't Fleck (who really is?) and move on. Give Lester his due and time to create his own identity with the program.
In our instant-success and results-only society, plenty of people will be too quick to judge Lester. Next year (2018) will be a more accurate barometer to evaluate whether he was a good hire or not.
01-15-2017 12:32 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 12:32 PM)BrownandGoldforever Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 09:43 AM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 02:06 AM)CincoDosAdios Wrote:  http://www.freep.com/story/sports/column.../96589744/

"He knows football. People like him. He reads the room well. He wanted desperately to be at WMU. Whether he wins or not remains to be seen. But in replacing Fleck, WMU wasn’t going to get anyone else who checked so many boxes."

PERFECT line. Some are upset by the hire. Some are OK with it. But hardly anyone is enamored with it...And after the magical, storybook, unbelievable season we just had under Fleck, it was inevitable that anyone other than Les Miles being hired was going to be a bit of a downer. It's how Lester goes about his business of recruiting and filling out his staff that will let us know how much of a dropoff we can realistically expect.

I, for one, am hopeful that it will be minimal.

We'll be fine. Players will need the continued support from the fans to help keep up the momentum. Not too much to ask

The inevitable comparisons between Fleck and Lester have already begun and will continue for this fall and beyond. However, at some point, people have to realize that Lester isn't Fleck (who really is?) and move on. Give Lester his due and time to create his own identity with the program.
In our instant-success and results-only society, plenty of people will be too quick to judge Lester. Next year (2018) will be a more accurate barometer to evaluate whether he was a good hire or not.

There is talent in this program, it needs to be exploited. Lester needs to leverage what we have and not try and reinvent the wheel. If he works well with what we have, I expect a pretty good 2017. If he tries major changes, he could disappoint.
01-15-2017 12:39 PM
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BrownandGoldforever Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 12:39 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 12:32 PM)BrownandGoldforever Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 09:43 AM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 02:06 AM)CincoDosAdios Wrote:  http://www.freep.com/story/sports/column.../96589744/

"He knows football. People like him. He reads the room well. He wanted desperately to be at WMU. Whether he wins or not remains to be seen. But in replacing Fleck, WMU wasn’t going to get anyone else who checked so many boxes."

PERFECT line. Some are upset by the hire. Some are OK with it. But hardly anyone is enamored with it...And after the magical, storybook, unbelievable season we just had under Fleck, it was inevitable that anyone other than Les Miles being hired was going to be a bit of a downer. It's how Lester goes about his business of recruiting and filling out his staff that will let us know how much of a dropoff we can realistically expect.

I, for one, am hopeful that it will be minimal.

We'll be fine. Players will need the continued support from the fans to help keep up the momentum. Not too much to ask

The inevitable comparisons between Fleck and Lester have already begun and will continue for this fall and beyond. However, at some point, people have to realize that Lester isn't Fleck (who really is?) and move on. Give Lester his due and time to create his own identity with the program.
In our instant-success and results-only society, plenty of people will be too quick to judge Lester. Next year (2018) will be a more accurate barometer to evaluate whether he was a good hire or not.

There is talent in this program, it needs to be exploited. Lester needs to leverage what we have and not try and reinvent the wheel. If he works well with what we have, I expect a pretty good 2017. If he tries major changes, he could disappoint.

I agree about if he tries big changes. I don't think he will because he's under a pretty good microscope right now. Any new coach is always under it but replacing someone like Fleck makes the spotlight even warmer. Lester is going to have to find the balance between continuing the culture within the program along with what "stamp" he wants to put on it. That can be a tricky thing to accomplish.
01-15-2017 01:05 PM
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stdatwmu Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 12:28 PM)BrownandGoldforever Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 12:25 PM)Doo Wrote:  Couch is also not afraid to be critical.

With all due respect to the guys that followed him at Mlive, Couch was the best sportswriter at the Kalamazoo Mlive in years.

100%.

Always appreciate hearing Graham's take. He's not wrong on the Lester hire.

While I'll likely remain skeptical for a couple years, I'll also give him a fair chance. Exactly the same thing I said when PJ was hired.

Tim just needs to maintain and grow the culture while figuring out how to continue out-recruiting the MAC; I'm really not worried about the Xs and Os. If he assembles the right staff I think we'll be just fine. None of us can argue it's not nice to have a guy who truly bleeds Brown and Gold at the top.
01-15-2017 02:06 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
Quote:it was inevitable that anyone other than Les Miles being hired was going to be a bit of a downer.

I think if we grew from within -- and kept most of our coaching staff, kept the RTB, and the way Fleck projects himself wore off on the OC & DC who took over as HC, etc... Namely if PJ coached a couple more years and Then was taken by an Oregon/Texas/ND/etc (and not an Illinois, Minnesota, Texas Tech) -- I don't think it'd seem like a downer so much. The only way around hiring within with characters who were making themselves more known, would be a "big name" coach as you point out. But @$800k which is a lot for a G5 when there's also bonus money to be had with it, isn't enough for a big-namer like Les Miles.

So yeah, you're right, no matter what if it's neither of those situations, it's going to be a downer. A feeling of WTF (but not Worst To First). Two things come to mind though:

a) We wouldn't want a PJ "knock off" -- getting some guy without a great resume but either has ties to WMU or was a budding assistant for a big-name team, who is like the exuberant "Juicer". Unless it was someone from within higher up who then took over with that PJ-like "schtick" that wore off on anyone, it'd be a bad thing to chase hoping to repeat. Much like a guy who gets dumped by his GF who has a unique look, and he just chases that similar look that she had, and ends up with a chubby incompatible version of her instead.

b) Separate from that, Lester. In a sense it does bring something -- a guy who knows WMU. He isn't someone any other G5 or even a good winning FCS team would want as a HC. But he has roots here, so in Another way, we're taking a chance on someone else again. We're not getting a hot young OC/DC from some great winning P5 school. Or an FCS HC who's up and coming or even great-winning D2 coach. We're getting someone familiar who Could be good, but brings that comfort zone and that feeling of "Wouldn't that be sweet if we were kicking a$$ in the MAC with him?" The only thing with Lester that Is Solid across the board no matter what -- is knowing how he'll get our QB situation straightened out as good as anyone. And coming into next year, we will definitely need that. But for the long run? To solidify ourselves after dominantly winning the MAC but losing some key O guys where even under PJ a MAC Title wouldn't be a GIVEN, and certainly not being ranked either? Thankfully it's not a repeat gamble of the same nature ("The Juicer!"), but we got someone who's familiar and has potential, even if on paper credentials he wasn't at all a grab-me candidate for any other program.

So right now, it's in such a wait-and-see state. I'm optimistic that we'll have a decent team, at the end of the day. To some though, that's not enough, as I'm talking on the level of being bowl eligible consistently, winning one sometimes, tying for #1 MAC West (but losing out) here and there, and maybe going to the MAC Title game once every 4 years. "Par". As in not tanking, and being over .500 overall under Lester.

I think people want more, but remember this: With PJ, we were 1-11, and there was no reason/excuse for that, even 1st year and all. Next year was how we should have been @8-4, and it was an easy schedule. The next year wasn't better really. It was 7-5. We were on our way to go 6-6, but we ended it upsetting Toledo and then winning a bowl against an equal opponent to ourselves. We ended the season on a High Note. And this year, with the senior laden team + non-daunting schedule, we connected the dots to continue that to make best use of our Peak. But that's what it was. Under PJ, would we be 10-2 this coming year? Definitely a stretch, but sure, maybe -- but going undefeated in the MAC or losing a game to a hot Miami reg-season but beating MSU would be too much to Expect as Standard.

I'm just putting things into perspective. Our Peak year this past year would Not be Every Year under PJ. He still had a lot to prove To make us like how NIU was where 10W+ pre-bowl was Standard. Which is why Oregon and the like weren't chasing him -- but a place like Minnesota would take a chance on him given a nice contract after having a Good year. All in all, our expectations as standard for PJ were Still in the works, is what I'm saying. We know we'd be an 8W+ team, and in a peak year would hit double-digit wins -- OK. Possibly better -- but that was to be proven. So it's not like we lost the next Urban Meyer. Maybe we did, but we don't know that yet.

So if Lester turns out to be, say, another Cubit-level coach without tailspinning -- with a bit better culture to keep things more consistent and a bit better on the field -- that, in the end, I have to be happy with. There's no guarantee At All that PJ would have been leaps & bounds above that, year in year out, and that there'd never be anything to complain about if he Did stay here another 5 years or so.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 02:48 PM by toddjnsn.)
01-15-2017 02:38 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
Quote: maybe going to the MAC Title game once every 4 years.

To me that's settling. If the best we can hope for is going to the MACC every 4 years or so than what was last season all about?

We may as well have hired Gary Darnell again, he got us to the MACC two years in a row.

My expectation and hope for this program is that we're the odds-on favorite in the MAC West to win that Division and go to the MACC every year. It should be an upset and a surprise when we don't make it.

If you can't aspire to anything more than that, then we're paying Lester $ 200-300k too much a year. We should save that money and reallocate it to programs where we have consistent winners-like Tennis and Soccer.

03-hissyfit
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 02:53 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
01-15-2017 02:50 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
Quote:If the best we can hope for is going to the MACC every 4 years or so than what was last season all about?

One of those 3.5 - 4 years.... or "peak" years. :)

Quote:We may has well have hired Gary Darnell again, he got us to the MACC two years in a row.

Problem with Darnell is he made us tank. The problem with Darnell and Cubit was tailspinning. We (most likely) would not have that with PJ. That's what we really lost. PJ would have kept it Consistently Good. We were 1-3 against NIU remember. And hell, in NIU's definite Down year, IN KZOO, we had to scrap and claw to win it -- in our Peak year. I think people are seeing this past year as a run-of-the-mill year. That's going way over the top. He still had work to do to Establish us, still.

4 years may sound like too long. I'd say rounding up to 4... it being around 3.x years on average. Maybe it'd round down to 3. Losing a tie-breaker and not going, where the Toledo or NIU or CMU game is played said year would be a determining factor.

We Should assume under PJ it would be better than going to the MACC every 4 years. But That much better than every 2.5 years? We're not in the MAC East, come on. :)

And our Peak year was also a year of NIU being down and CMU tailspinning too. Let's be realistic. We'd be fighting at the top almost Every year under PJ -- and I think with Lester we certainly can many years. But that doesn't mean we'll be in the game nearly every year. We'd be relying on NIU/Toledo/CMU to consistently have blah years to do so.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 03:26 PM by toddjnsn.)
01-15-2017 03:05 PM
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Hiller4Hyz09 Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
Couch always made me believe we would beat our payday opponent week 1.
01-15-2017 03:07 PM
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GullLake Offline
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RE: Couch Article on Lester Hire
(01-15-2017 12:25 PM)Doo Wrote:  Couch is also not afraid to be critical.

Oh?

He kisses MSU cheeks pretty well.
01-15-2017 06:58 PM
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