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So its apparent that Lester is open to keeping some of the verbiage that Fleck left behind... Curious as to what we should keep and what we should dump..

RTB/Row the Boat/Row etc. - Ditch
Elite - Keep
Prefontain Pace - Keep
Nekton Mentality - Keep
Hungry Dod is a Dangerous Dog - Meh
Change Your Best - Keep
F.A.M.I.L.Y (forget about me I love you) - Keep

... All in all I would keep everything that doesn't revolve around rowing.

(01-14-2017 06:00 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  So its apparent that Lester is open to keeping some of the verbiage that Fleck left behind... Curious as to what we should keep and what we should dump..

RTB/Row the Boat/Row etc. - Ditch
Elite - Keep
Prefontain Pace - Keep
Nekton Mentality - Keep
Hungry Dod is a Dangerous Dog - Meh
Change Your Best - Keep
F.A.M.I.L.Y (forget about me I love you) - Keep

... All in all I would keep everything that doesn't revolve around rowing.

TBH I don't care what they keep and ditch, up to the players.

I agree, I'd like that list to stay to. Is like to see something with the meaning of rtb but somehow bronco related. Anyone have any ideas?

Ball is the Program = keep

(01-14-2017 06:05 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Ball is the Program = keep

This and only this.

I'm happy that Lester is willing to keep some Fleckisms.

I know Fleck left in a way that left many people bitter, but he did great things while he was here so it's a good thing that not all of his history will be erased.

My favorites are:
Ball is the Program
Farmer's Alliance
Prefontaine Pace
Elite

KEEP:
- The Ball is the Program
- Change Your Best
- F.A.M.I.L.Y.
- S.M.A.R.T. (Someone Magnificent And Really Thorough)
- S.T.U.D.E.N.T (Someone That Understands Defeat Encapsulates Not Trying)
- L.I.F.E. (Living Isn't Freaking Easy)
- L.I.V.E. (Learning Important Values Everyday)
- L.O.V.E. (Loyalty On Virginity Ends)
- F.I.S.H. (Fvck It, Sh!t Happens)
- F.E.A.R. (Fvck Everything And Run)
- F.L.E.C.K. (Fight that Little Eager Coach Killingly)

"Elite" is being used by so many other coaches now that it's hardly Bronco-specific. Just sayin'.

I think we should keep RTB. As I said in another thread, RTB means something, to the players and the program. Who cares if fleck came up with it, or why he says he came up with it (the son he lost, which I never really understood). RTB actually is a general euphemism of teamwork. A group needs to be in sync and row together in the same direction, with a common goal, regardless of how calm or choppy the water is, to reach a high level of achievement. Not just the players on the team, but coaches and administration, fans and anyone else.

People want to ditch it because they think it represents Fleck, but people have used the saying "everybody rowing the boat in the same direction" forever. Fleck just pasted it everywhere, and used it as a calling card, which was fine. The players understood what it meant and still do.

One huge distinction between fleck and Lester which I identified after Lester's press event yesterday, is that fleck is a great speaker, and Lester isn't. Fleck is able put present his thoughts in a way which makes them easier to understand and digest. He uses slogans and concepts to communicate the same principles that other coaches want to communicate, but the fleckisms make them easier to appreciate and remember for a player, or fans, or the Media.

If you are a new teacher in an English class, and the old teacher used an acronym to teach the students the conjunctions, and the students became perfect in terms of understanding the conjunctions, why wouldn't you just continue to use whatever the old teacher used if it was working so well? Why reinvent the wheel?

The added bonus of keeping and using RTB is that fleck wouldn't be able to.

After long thought I agree with you 100% bravo. He drilled the meaning of RTB into our players soul mind and body's. Not to mention the community the verbiage plastered all over Walls print media oars Uniforms stationary ect. The team the community bought into its meaning of dealing with life after loss and struggle. It's a mantra of giving honor to another. RTB is who we are how we are known and if you will, actually a gift from PJ that he gave to our team and community. You could even say it's a way of honoring what was so important to him by caring it forward. Like it or not RTB is part of our legacy. It will always be attached to WMU. I say we retain it until another one comes along that has such meaning. Just my opinion putting aside the feelings of how PJ left . I may be a small minority but that's how one bronco fan feels . RTB....

(01-15-2017 07:53 AM)brovol Wrote:  I think we should keep RTB. As I said in another thread, RTB means something, to the players and the program. Who cares if fleck came up with it, or why he says he came up with it (the son he lost, which I never really understood). RTB actually is a general euphemism of teamwork. A group needs to be in sync and row together in the same direction, with a common goal, regardless of how calm or choppy the water is, to reach a high level of achievement. Not just the players on the team, but coaches and administration, fans and anyone else.

People want to ditch it because they think it represents Fleck, but people have used the saying "everybody rowing the boat in the same direction" forever. Fleck just pasted it everywhere, and used it as a calling card, which was fine. The players understood what it meant and still do.

One huge distinction between fleck and Lester which I identified after Lester's press event yesterday, is that fleck is a great speaker, and Lester isn't. Fleck is able put present his thoughts in a way which makes them easier to understand and digest. He uses slogans and concepts to communicate the same principles that other coaches want to communicate, but the fleckisms make them easier to appreciate and remember for a player, or fans, or the Media.

If you are a new teacher in an English class, and the old teacher used an acronym to teach the students the conjunctions, and the students became perfect in terms of understanding the conjunctions, why wouldn't you just continue to use whatever the old teacher used if it was working so well? Why reinvent the wheel?

The added bonus of keeping and using RTB is that fleck wouldn't be able to.

There are several ways to promote passion in players. One way is verbal-Fleck was an absolute master at that. Recruits and players bought into it big time. They responded to it, they ate it up. That is not Lester's way, but he has passion for winning. Let nobody doubt that.

Another way is to simply provide players with all the tools needed to excel, to introduce schemes and plays allowing them to showcase what they are good at. Not to force something on them that's a bad fit, just because you believe it's the way to do things. To understand and relate to them as players.

Lester has to find his own path to keeping the passion at a high level. He talked about a 'winning culture', he understands the need to keep it. That will be the challenge in the coming year. A strong push out of the gate would sure dispel doubts.

I agree on those points Phil, but still think he could keep RTB, as the players relate to that, and it has brought them together, even in accepting Lester and the change that is occurring. The instinct from the outside is to ditch RTB. I just don't know why we need to when it symbolizes how we got to where we are right now.

Not exactly a Fleck-ism, but I like how our defensive players put their fist up after a third-down stop:



I've always thought that was kind of unique and cool. Hope we continue to do this, especially if Pinkham continues as DC.

(01-15-2017 10:57 AM)The Colonel Wrote:  Not exactly a Fleck-ism, but I like how our defensive players put their fist up after a third-down stop:



I've always thought that was kind of unique and cool. Hope we continue to do this, especially if Pinkham continues as DC.

Not sure that's unique to college football but also liked to see they all had their heads in the game by knowing what down it is. It seemed to charge them up when doing it too.

Yeah, there's certainly a solid case worth considering about keeping RTB. It wasn't intertwining FLECK or Coaching & RTB. He intertwined WMU & RTB. Like, Everywhere.

If he intertwined himself and/or the concept of coaching itself + RTB -- it becomes obvious to ditch it when he's leaving. No brainer there.

But because he instilled the concept with our team, with WMU, with WMU's process as a team -- does that mean we ditch it and HE carries it with him? No.

In the end, it's up to the Team at WMU, as that's what it was intertwined with. Even if it is deserving of WMU keeping it and rolling with with it doesn't mean we have to or should, if due to the culture of the team with him leaving it doesn't jive well. So I could see why we wouldn't roll with it. But to have it not as a repeated mantra every 5 minutes like we did under PJ, but as a reference on a wall here and there, and just a part of our culture -- I don't see how that should be a No-No. RTB <> Fleck. He made RTB = Team WMU.

Anyone we play: Whats the deal with Row the boat?

Us: Well our old coaches 2nd son died of a heart condition...Sacrifice...Turdville.... Row the boat.

I think it is ok if we let him take it

(01-15-2017 07:53 AM)brovol Wrote:  One huge distinction between fleck and Lester which I identified after Lester's press event yesterday, is that fleck is a great speaker, and Lester isn't. Fleck is able put present his thoughts in a way which makes them easier to understand and digest. He uses slogans and concepts to communicate the same principles that other coaches want to communicate, but the fleckisms make them easier to appreciate and remember for a player, or fans, or the Media.

Tim himself admits as much...

Quote:When Tim Lester interviewed for the Western Michigan football coaching job four years ago, he had the same recruiting philosophy as P.J. Fleck. He just couldn’t articulate it as concisely.

“I told (athletic director) Kathy (Beauregard), ‘We need to focus here,’” Lester said Saturday, reenacting the scene, as if he were frantically pointing to different cities on a map. “Then (Fleck) got the job and called it a ‘six-hour radius,’ which is way cooler than I could come up with. It was the same thing. It just sounded cooler.”

From Graham's article. http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story.../96589744/

(01-15-2017 02:13 PM)NYbronco Wrote:  Anyone we play: Whats the deal with Row the boat?

Us: Well our old coaches 2nd son died of a heart condition...Sacrifice...Turdville.... Row the boat.

I think it is ok if we let him take it

RTB was not about flecks kid. He just related it to his kid. RTB was always about team, and everyone being in sync to accomplish a goal or goals. Fleck did not invent the concept or RTB. I have used the phrase "everyone needs to row the boat in the same direction" for years in my family court cases, long before fleck was hired at WMU, and the phrase has been used generally by people for ages. It's a good analogy, and is a phrase which works well whether fleck is here or not.

I don't think we need to change things just to change, or just because fleck used them. These are "concepts" and values which fleck emphasized, but which should be emphasized by all coaches. If Lester is good, he will not fix things that aren't broken. I hope he recognizes what fleck did which attracted recruits, and got those kids to play as well as they did.

Fleck is a good coach because he gets it. He understands what it takes to build a great program. These concepts are important. Why abandon them simply because he is gone? It's like changing our offense.

CMU went through a couple coaching changes when they were in their glory years. The first time the new coach kept doing what the old coach did. The second guy changed things when he didn't need to. The first instance they maintained there momentum. The second instance they lost it.

.....And frankly, it is a part of our history now, and a very positive part. Let's embrace it.

(01-15-2017 02:46 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 02:13 PM)NYbronco Wrote:  Anyone we play: Whats the deal with Row the boat?

Us: Well our old coaches 2nd son died of a heart condition...Sacrifice...Turdville.... Row the boat.

I think it is ok if we let him take it

RTB was not about flecks kid. He just related it to his kid. RTB was always about team, and everyone being in sync to accomplish a goal or goals. Fleck did not invent the concept or RTB. I have used the phrase "everyone needs to row the boat in the same direction" for years in my family court cases, long before fleck was hired at WMU, and the phrase has been used generally by people for ages. It's a good analogy, and is a phrase which works well whether fleck is here or not.

I don't think we need to change things just to change, or just because fleck used them. These are "concepts" and values which fleck emphasized, but which should be emphasized by all coaches. If Lester is good, he will not fix things that aren't broken. I hope he recognizes what fleck did which attracted recruits, and got those kids to play as well as they did.

Fleck is a good coach because he gets it. He understands what it takes to build a great program. These concepts are important. Why abandon them simply because he is gone? It's like changing our offense.

CMU went through a couple coaching changes when they were in their glory years. The first time the new coach kept doing what the old coach did. The second guy changed things when he didn't need to. The first instance they maintained there momentum. The second instance they lost it.

Have a feeling that KB and Lester will want to send RTB away. If that's the case, SELL it to Fleck/Minnesota...don't give it away. There's "value" in it and WMU spent some money for legal fees to retain the trademark.