(01-11-2017 09:51 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:50 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  

(01-10-2017 11:33 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  The interesting game of the night was TTU's win over #25 Kansas St. TTU has beaten #7 WVU, lost at #3 Kansas and won tonight in a 3 game stretch. Quite impressive. They are 13-3 under Chris Beard.

That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

Except that Beard brought in three new guys (only had 7 players on the roster when he got there) who made immediate impact as well as two others who are warm bodies to contribute. One of the new guys is TT's second leading scorer. And two transfers for next year, including a 4*.

But yeah, other than that...

Tubby recruited Zach Smith, thier second leading scorer....

Aaron Ross is working his way back into the starting line up from a injury. Anthony Livingston minutes are going to drop.

Also our 2017 class is better.... hmm...

Someone's argument has massive flaws?

Huh?

(01-11-2017 10:03 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:45 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  

(01-10-2017 11:33 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  The interesting game of the night was TTU's win over #25 Kansas St. TTU has beaten #7 WVU, lost at #3 Kansas and won tonight in a 3 game stretch. Quite impressive. They are 13-3 under Chris Beard.

That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

Except that Beard brought in three new guys (only had 7 players on the roster when he got there) who made immediate impact as well as two others who are warm bodies to contribute. One of the new guys is TT's second leading scorer. And two transfers for next year, including a 4*.

But yeah, other than that...

Still on your crusade I see

Not a crusade, just presenting the full story.

You have some mopeheads that want to fall back on the "see what happens when a coach hands over the keys to a program the right way" as if Beard walked into this team with 11 dudes ready to rock and roll.

That's all.

Basically, Beard's four main kids he brought in have played 1000+ minutes this year, or about 31.4% of all of TT's minutes. Those players account for 32.9% of all TT's points, too.

Tubby's additions to the roster he had have played a total of 408 minutes, or about 12.6% of minutes. They have scored 10.5% of the team's points.

Those are just facts.

Nope your crusade is to convince anyone at anytime it is remotely relevant that Tubby didn't recruit well this offseason.

Based on your response it is obvious your initial statement was a shot at Tubby...And yes you are right that he could have done better but daam dude we get your point.

(01-11-2017 10:12 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:03 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:45 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

Except that Beard brought in three new guys (only had 7 players on the roster when he got there) who made immediate impact as well as two others who are warm bodies to contribute. One of the new guys is TT's second leading scorer. And two transfers for next year, including a 4*.

But yeah, other than that...

Still on your crusade I see

Not a crusade, just presenting the full story.

You have some mopeheads that want to fall back on the "see what happens when a coach hands over the keys to a program the right way" as if Beard walked into this team with 11 dudes ready to rock and roll.

That's all.

Basically, Beard's four main kids he brought in have played 1000+ minutes this year, or about 31.4% of all of TT's minutes. Those players account for 32.9% of all TT's points, too.

Tubby's additions to the roster he had have played a total of 408 minutes, or about 12.6% of minutes. They have scored 10.5% of the team's points.

Those are just facts.

Nope your crusade is to convince anyone at anytime it is remotely relevant that Tubby didn't recruit well this offseason.

I didn't "start" the conversation in this thread. Someone else did. I just filled out the rest of the story re: Beard.

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

You seem to get your panties in a wad every time I write about it. I'm frankly not sure why you feel the need to be Tubby's knight in shining armor.

Bottom line is both Beard and Tubby had about the same number of bodies on their respective rosters when they came to their new schools.

Apparently Tubby knew the players he was left with were very good and there wasn't the need to supplement as fervently as Beard did, and the numbers seem to show that. About 90% of the Tigers minutes and points come from guys that were left by Pastner. Only about 2/3rds at Tech.

I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

(01-11-2017 10:12 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  And yes you are right that he could have done better but daam dude we get your point.

But the problem here is some folks DON'T get the point. And keep bringing it up on the other side, which is why some of us come back to rebut with some facts.

I don't bring it up anymore unless I see someone being inherently dishonest about the situation.

(01-11-2017 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

Basically supplements a point I've been making for years now...one day folks are going to look back and realize just how much raw talent Pastner wasted, especially 2010-14.

Tubby isn't working miracles with Dedric, KJ, Jeremiah and Markel. They are just finally receiving competent coaching. Maximizing potential. Developing skills. Installing an offense. Etc.

(01-11-2017 10:26 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

Basically supplements a point I've been making for years now...one day folks are going to look back and realize just how much raw talent Pastner wasted, especially 2010-14.

Tubby isn't working miracles with Dedric, KJ, Jeremiah and Markel. They are just finally receiving competent coaching. Maximizing potential. Developing skills. Installing an offense. Etc.

This^^^^^^^

(01-11-2017 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:12 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:03 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:45 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Except that Beard brought in three new guys (only had 7 players on the roster when he got there) who made immediate impact as well as two others who are warm bodies to contribute. One of the new guys is TT's second leading scorer. And two transfers for next year, including a 4*.

But yeah, other than that...

Still on your crusade I see

Not a crusade, just presenting the full story.

You have some mopeheads that want to fall back on the "see what happens when a coach hands over the keys to a program the right way" as if Beard walked into this team with 11 dudes ready to rock and roll.

That's all.

Basically, Beard's four main kids he brought in have played 1000+ minutes this year, or about 31.4% of all of TT's minutes. Those players account for 32.9% of all TT's points, too.

Tubby's additions to the roster he had have played a total of 408 minutes, or about 12.6% of minutes. They have scored 10.5% of the team's points.

Those are just facts.

Nope your crusade is to convince anyone at anytime it is remotely relevant that Tubby didn't recruit well this offseason.

I didn't "start" the conversation in this thread. Someone else did. I just filled out the rest of the story re: Beard.

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

You seem to get your panties in a wad every time I write about it. I'm frankly not sure why you feel the need to be Tubby's knight in shining armor.

Bottom line is both Beard and Tubby had about the same number of bodies on their respective rosters when they came to their new schools.

Apparently Tubby knew the players he was left with were very good and there wasn't the need to supplement as fervently as Beard did, and the numbers seem to show that. About 90% of the Tigers minutes and points come from guys that were left by Pastner. Only about 2/3rds at Tech.

I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

The guy that started the conversation about TT and Beard was Pinhead, the self proclaimed "I know more about basketball than 99% of this board". He without question along with racecar guy, have an agenda. The proof in the pudding is when a poster is constantly negative in regards to Tubby and never has one positive thing to say about Tubby and the team. That being said, I do agree Tubby should of could of and needed to add a couple of more players to the roster. But where the rubber meets the road or the proof in the pudding, is only bringing this issue up along with other selective negative comments and never giving Tubby credit for squat. Tubby is not beyond approach nor is he perfect, but if a poster or a fan wants to be critical when the time is fair and right then their azz needs to give credit when credit is due. If one can't do this, then clearly the person has an agenda.

(01-11-2017 11:53 AM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:12 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:03 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:45 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Still on your crusade I see

Not a crusade, just presenting the full story.

You have some mopeheads that want to fall back on the "see what happens when a coach hands over the keys to a program the right way" as if Beard walked into this team with 11 dudes ready to rock and roll.

That's all.

Basically, Beard's four main kids he brought in have played 1000+ minutes this year, or about 31.4% of all of TT's minutes. Those players account for 32.9% of all TT's points, too.

Tubby's additions to the roster he had have played a total of 408 minutes, or about 12.6% of minutes. They have scored 10.5% of the team's points.

Those are just facts.

Nope your crusade is to convince anyone at anytime it is remotely relevant that Tubby didn't recruit well this offseason.

I didn't "start" the conversation in this thread. Someone else did. I just filled out the rest of the story re: Beard.

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

You seem to get your panties in a wad every time I write about it. I'm frankly not sure why you feel the need to be Tubby's knight in shining armor.

Bottom line is both Beard and Tubby had about the same number of bodies on their respective rosters when they came to their new schools.

Apparently Tubby knew the players he was left with were very good and there wasn't the need to supplement as fervently as Beard did, and the numbers seem to show that. About 90% of the Tigers minutes and points come from guys that were left by Pastner. Only about 2/3rds at Tech.

I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

The guy that started the conversation about TT and Beard was Pinhead, the self proclaimed "I know more about basketball than 99% of this board". He without question along with racecar guy, have an agenda. The proof in the pudding is when a poster is constantly negative in regards to Tubby and never has one positive thing to say about Tubby and the team. That being said, I do agree Tubby should of could of and needed to add a couple of more players to the roster. But where the rubber meets the road or the proof in the pudding, is only bringing this issue up along with other selective negative comments and never giving Tubby credit for squat. Tubby is not beyond approach nor is he perfect, but if a poster or a fan wants to be critical when the time is fair and right then their azz needs to give credit when credit is due. If one can't do this, then clearly the person has an agenda.

I don't know if people just see my username and assume I'm the boogeyman, but my post in this thread wasn't an unprovoked "shot" at anyone. It was merely a factual response to the post I cited above.

It is NO different than how I responded when (for years) people talked about how Cal "nuked" the program and how Josh was the the modern day miracle worker for cobbling together wins out of that atrocious roster.

I think Tubby has done fine. I am not pleased that he didn't accomplish more this spring and summer to get a little more help. At this point in the season I thought Memphis would be 12-4 (http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403-post-138...id13843281) and they are, so it isn't like he's blown away expectations. (1-4 vs. RPI top 100; 7-0 vs. 230 and over).

I like the development of Markel and the staff certainly deserves credit for that. Also, though, I'm sure the necessity of giving the Memphis four boatloads of minutes has helped psychologically as well as developmentally.

He's going to HAVE to snag some of good Memphis kids to keep this program from being a perennial bubble team. IMO.

(01-11-2017 12:32 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  He's going to HAVE to snag some of good Memphis kids to keep this program from being a perennial bubble team. IMO.

Agree.

Memphis and the surrounding areas have a good amount of talent, even though some like to throw it under the bus on occasion.

Basically - you recruit Memphis and the mid-south (west TN, east AR, north MS), that should be enough alone to be in the NCAAs every year as long as your talent evaluations are good and your player development program is top notch (weights/nutrition).

A coach may have to supplement from outside the immediate area at times, but with all the high school talent and JCs within a 3 hour drive max and with the incredible value on the transfer wire every year (regular and grad), it shouldn't be that hard to put together a winning roster every season in this league, especially if you land the big local fish to put the rest of the talent around - Nichols, Stokes, Dedric, Skal, etc.

And really, even if you only land second tier local talent (outside of top 50), that still should give you a pretty good team/foundation to build on.

Jonathan Williams III, Chris Chiozza, Leron Black, Jaylen Fisher, Jemerrio Jones, etc...some guys carving out really nice DI careers right now.

(01-11-2017 12:47 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  And really, even if you only land second tier local talent (outside of top 50), that still should give you a pretty good team/foundation to build on.

Jonathan Williams III, Chris Chiozza, Leron Black, Jaylen Fisher, Jemerrio Jones, etc...some guys carving out really nice DI careers right now.

Yeah, Top 50 would be enough.

(01-11-2017 12:32 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 11:53 AM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:12 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:03 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Not a crusade, just presenting the full story.

You have some mopeheads that want to fall back on the "see what happens when a coach hands over the keys to a program the right way" as if Beard walked into this team with 11 dudes ready to rock and roll.

That's all.

Basically, Beard's four main kids he brought in have played 1000+ minutes this year, or about 31.4% of all of TT's minutes. Those players account for 32.9% of all TT's points, too.

Tubby's additions to the roster he had have played a total of 408 minutes, or about 12.6% of minutes. They have scored 10.5% of the team's points.

Those are just facts.

Nope your crusade is to convince anyone at anytime it is remotely relevant that Tubby didn't recruit well this offseason.

I didn't "start" the conversation in this thread. Someone else did. I just filled out the rest of the story re: Beard.

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

You seem to get your panties in a wad every time I write about it. I'm frankly not sure why you feel the need to be Tubby's knight in shining armor.

Bottom line is both Beard and Tubby had about the same number of bodies on their respective rosters when they came to their new schools.

Apparently Tubby knew the players he was left with were very good and there wasn't the need to supplement as fervently as Beard did, and the numbers seem to show that. About 90% of the Tigers minutes and points come from guys that were left by Pastner. Only about 2/3rds at Tech.

I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

The guy that started the conversation about TT and Beard was Pinhead, the self proclaimed "I know more about basketball than 99% of this board". He without question along with racecar guy, have an agenda. The proof in the pudding is when a poster is constantly negative in regards to Tubby and never has one positive thing to say about Tubby and the team. That being said, I do agree Tubby should of could of and needed to add a couple of more players to the roster. But where the rubber meets the road or the proof in the pudding, is only bringing this issue up along with other selective negative comments and never giving Tubby credit for squat. Tubby is not beyond approach nor is he perfect, but if a poster or a fan wants to be critical when the time is fair and right then their azz needs to give credit when credit is due. If one can't do this, then clearly the person has an agenda.

I don't know if people just see my username and assume I'm the boogeyman, but my post in this thread wasn't an unprovoked "shot" at anyone. It was merely a factual response to the post I cited above.

It is NO different than how I responded when (for years) people talked about how Cal "nuked" the program and how Josh was the the modern day miracle worker for cobbling together wins out of that atrocious roster.

I think Tubby has done fine. I am not pleased that he didn't accomplish more this spring and summer to get a little more help. At this point in the season I thought Memphis would be 12-4 (http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403-post-138...id13843281) and they are, so it isn't like he's blown away expectations.

I like the development of Markel and the staff certainly deserves credit for that. Also, though, I'm sure the necessity of giving the Memphis four boatloads of minutes has helped psychologically as well as developmentally.

He's going to HAVE to snag some of good Memphis kids to keep this program from being a perennial bubble team. IMO.

I don't think you are the boogeyman upon seeing your screen name. Most of the time I read the post prior to looking at the poster. I wasn't taking a shot at you because I quoted you. I simply was addressing two issues with facts. One, the person who started the conversation about TT and Beard. And two, those who only have critical things to say about Tubby who's in his first season, without question have an agenda. I view you as a good/quality poster, personally.

(01-11-2017 01:02 PM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 12:32 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 11:53 AM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:12 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Nope your crusade is to convince anyone at anytime it is remotely relevant that Tubby didn't recruit well this offseason.

I didn't "start" the conversation in this thread. Someone else did. I just filled out the rest of the story re: Beard.

(01-11-2017 12:40 AM)3rdgenerationtiger Wrote:  That's what happens when a coach leaves behind a well coached, fundamentally sound program. It make a new coach's job much easier.

It's a much easier than having to put out the dumpster fire that other coaches leave behind.

You seem to get your panties in a wad every time I write about it. I'm frankly not sure why you feel the need to be Tubby's knight in shining armor.

Bottom line is both Beard and Tubby had about the same number of bodies on their respective rosters when they came to their new schools.

Apparently Tubby knew the players he was left with were very good and there wasn't the need to supplement as fervently as Beard did, and the numbers seem to show that. About 90% of the Tigers minutes and points come from guys that were left by Pastner. Only about 2/3rds at Tech.

I guess we could say Pastner handed over a nice set of keys if the folks earlier in this thread same the same for Beard.

The guy that started the conversation about TT and Beard was Pinhead, the self proclaimed "I know more about basketball than 99% of this board". He without question along with racecar guy, have an agenda. The proof in the pudding is when a poster is constantly negative in regards to Tubby and never has one positive thing to say about Tubby and the team. That being said, I do agree Tubby should of could of and needed to add a couple of more players to the roster. But where the rubber meets the road or the proof in the pudding, is only bringing this issue up along with other selective negative comments and never giving Tubby credit for squat. Tubby is not beyond approach nor is he perfect, but if a poster or a fan wants to be critical when the time is fair and right then their azz needs to give credit when credit is due. If one can't do this, then clearly the person has an agenda.

I don't know if people just see my username and assume I'm the boogeyman, but my post in this thread wasn't an unprovoked "shot" at anyone. It was merely a factual response to the post I cited above.

It is NO different than how I responded when (for years) people talked about how Cal "nuked" the program and how Josh was the the modern day miracle worker for cobbling together wins out of that atrocious roster.

I think Tubby has done fine. I am not pleased that he didn't accomplish more this spring and summer to get a little more help. At this point in the season I thought Memphis would be 12-4 (http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403-post-138...id13843281) and they are, so it isn't like he's blown away expectations.

I like the development of Markel and the staff certainly deserves credit for that. Also, though, I'm sure the necessity of giving the Memphis four boatloads of minutes has helped psychologically as well as developmentally.

He's going to HAVE to snag some of good Memphis kids to keep this program from being a perennial bubble team. IMO.

I don't think you are the boogeyman upon seeing your screen name. Most of the time I read the post prior to looking at the poster. I wasn't taking a shot at you because I quoted you. I simply was addressing two issues with facts. One, the person who started the conversation about TT and Beard. And two, those who only have critical things to say about Tubby who's in his first season, without question have an agenda. I view you as a good/quality poster, personally.

(01-11-2017 12:51 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 12:47 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  And really, even if you only land second tier local talent (outside of top 50), that still should give you a pretty good team/foundation to build on.

Jonathan Williams III, Chris Chiozza, Leron Black, Jaylen Fisher, Jemerrio Jones, etc...some guys carving out really nice DI careers right now.

Yeah, Top 50 would be enough.

Hypothetical with only Memphis/Mid-South players. Josh takes the Southern Cal job after the 2013 season. Memphis hires let's say Leonard Hamilton from Florida State.

Day one, Hamilton walks onto the job with a hypothetical roster of this:

Tarik Black
Chris Crawford
Adonis Thomas
Joe Jackson

On the ESPN top 100 board are:

Austin Nichols - Memphis PF
Nick King - Memphis G/F
Bobby Portis - Little Rock PF, at Arkansas
JaJuan Johnson - Memphis SG averaging 13 ppg, 5 rpg and 3 apg for Marquette
Robert Hubbs - Dyer County SG, at Tennessee
Moses Kingley - New Albany MS C, at Arkansas
JW3 - Memphis SF, Missouri now Gonzaga

That's simply top 100 local kids within an easy drive of Memphis.

In one year.

And that's not counting JUCOs or grad transfers or anything else used to supplement the local players.

There is no reason for a competent coach with the resources available at Memphis to not have a capable roster almost every year.

Anything said contrary to that is simply an excuse.

Are we better off now than we were a year ago?

Channeling my inner Reagan

(01-11-2017 01:35 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Are we better off now than we were a year ago?

Well sure but that's not really the discussion for the most part.

But to play along, I'll say this - you're also better off eating dog food over dog shtt, but most would rather eat steak.

And no, to the nerds out there, I'm not saying Tubby is dog food.

What I am saying, is there were a lot of hires that would've been better than retaining Pastner another year.

Mussleman, Forbes, Capel, etc...like the line in Christmas Vacation when Frank Shirley picks up the phone...get me somebody, anybody.

I mean, almost by default we're in a better place.

(01-11-2017 01:40 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 01:35 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Are we better off now than we were a year ago?

Well sure but that's not really the discussion for the most part.

But to play along, I'll say this - you're also better off eating dog food over dog shtt, but most would rather eat steak.

And no, to the nerds out there, I'm not saying Tubby is dog food.

What I am saying, is there were a lot of hires that would've been better than retaining Pastner another year.

Mussleman, Forbes, Capel, etc...like the line in Christmas Vacation when Frank Shirley picks up the phone...get me somebody, anybody.

I mean, almost by default we're in a better place.

I don't think we can afford steak anymore or you'd see Marshall or Buzz prowling the sideline


Kibbles and bits it is

(01-11-2017 01:35 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Are we better off now than we were a year ago?

Channeling my inner Reagan

The answer is a resounding YES.

And thank you for bringing up my favorite president!

(01-11-2017 01:17 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  And that's not counting JUCOs or grad transfers or anything else used to supplement the local players.

There is no reason for a competent coach with the resources available at Memphis to not have a capable roster almost every year.

Anything said contrary to that is simply an excuse.

I like your posts about recruits because you obviously keep up with recruits and players in general. I don't have the time to do what you do, so reading your posts about players is most useful and enjoyable for myself. Which is why I sent you a pm with a recruiting question. I wish you could have helped me out.