(01-11-2017 07:24 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(01-10-2017 10:53 PM)emu steve Wrote:  The MAC is about as expected: Akron and Ohio and the rest.

I'm still not convinced that we're not the third best team in the conference.

Not good enough. With the current personnel, we should strive to be THE best. Third best gets you nothing.

What does last place get you?

(01-11-2017 08:40 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 07:24 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(01-10-2017 10:53 PM)emu steve Wrote:  The MAC is about as expected: Akron and Ohio and the rest.

I'm still not convinced that we're not the third best team in the conference.

Not good enough. With the current personnel, we should strive to be THE best. Third best gets you nothing.

What does last place get you?

3rd place gets you better recruiting than a last place team

Ok we won as I predicted lol.

However, you want to know what is Scarey? BG had 17 off rebounds!!!!!!! That's ridiculous!!!!!!! We won't beat many good teams giving up 17 off boards..............

It's a shame we don't get as much discussion after blow out win, like we do after a loss. I went back through our old schedules, and this was far and away Murphy's largest MAC road win. The next closest was CMU last year, which was by 19 points.

I'm curious to see if Lee's "indefinite suspension" is like Grayson Allen's and only lasts a game. Personally, I'd like to roll with this bunch in Athens, and I think Murph will too. Hopefully last year's experience, where we were blown out and Thompson was ejected, left a bad taste in our mouths and we go out there with a little more energy.

(01-11-2017 05:20 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Ok we won as I predicted lol.

However, you want to know what is Scarey? BG had 17 off rebounds!!!!!!! That's ridiculous!!!!!!! We won't beat many good teams giving up 17 off boards..............

And only 10 points in the paint. So our defense was much more stout than our rebounding, which has been the case for about 6 seasons now.

(01-11-2017 05:25 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  It's a shame we don't get as much discussion after blow out win, like we do after a loss. I went back through our old schedules, and this was far and away Murphy's largest MAC road win. The next closest was CMU last year, which was by 19 points.

I'm curious to see if Lee's "indefinite suspension" is like Grayson Allen's and only lasts a game. Personally, I'd like to roll with this bunch in Athens, and I think Murph will too. Hopefully last year's experience, where we were blown out and Thompson was ejected, left a bad taste in our mouths and we go out there with a little more energy.

Frankly I am tired of raven or ray or whoever lee decides he is today let him sit the rest of the season I think we are a better TEAM without his moping and selfish play

(01-11-2017 05:26 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:20 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Ok we won as I predicted lol.

However, you want to know what is Scarey? BG had 17 off rebounds!!!!!!! That's ridiculous!!!!!!! We won't beat many good teams giving up 17 off boards..............

And only 10 points in the paint. So our defense was much more stout than our rebounding, which has been the case for about 6 seasons now.

Sam,

I don't know if I would say our defense is stout. When we play good teams, our defense is average. My point is, we give up way too many offensive rebounds which is a zone weakness. If the opposing team has good inside play, it could make for a long game. Let's see how our defense does against Campbell. We'll find out if we're contenders or pretenders.

Go EMU!

(01-11-2017 05:47 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:25 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  It's a shame we don't get as much discussion after blow out win, like we do after a loss. I went back through our old schedules, and this was far and away Murphy's largest MAC road win. The next closest was CMU last year, which was by 19 points.

I'm curious to see if Lee's "indefinite suspension" is like Grayson Allen's and only lasts a game. Personally, I'd like to roll with this bunch in Athens, and I think Murph will too. Hopefully last year's experience, where we were blown out and Thompson was ejected, left a bad taste in our mouths and we go out there with a little more energy.

Frankly I am tired of raven or ray or whoever lee decides he is today let him sit the rest of the season I think we are a better TEAM without his moping and selfish play

Raven is an exceptional basketball player. None of us really understand the dynamics inside the lockerroom. I will say this is not good for our image. I would like to see how we fare against Ohio without him. We have such an inside advantage, JT4 alone could get us to 0.500 in the MAC. I believe we need Lee but if he is a distraction, maybe Murphy cuts him loose.

(01-11-2017 07:59 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:26 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:20 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Ok we won as I predicted lol.

However, you want to know what is Scarey? BG had 17 off rebounds!!!!!!! That's ridiculous!!!!!!! We won't beat many good teams giving up 17 off boards..............

And only 10 points in the paint. So our defense was much more stout than our rebounding, which has been the case for about 6 seasons now.

Sam,

I don't know if I would say our defense is stout. When we play good teams, our defense is average. My point is, we give up way too many offensive rebounds which is a zone weakness. If the opposing team has good inside play, it could make for a long game. Let's see how our defense does against Campbell. We'll find out if we're contenders or pretenders.

Go EMU!

And my point is we defended the paint well yesterday. I'll give up all of the offensive rebounds in the world if we aren't allowing the other team to score off of them. Baylee, Madray, and Thompson defended their asses off in the middle, not allowing Wiggins (a pretty good player, mind you) to take over the game inside.

When any team plays good teams, their defense is likely average. It's much easier to score in basketball than it is to stop someone from scoring. That's a moot point. Ohio is a nightmare matchup for us. Guards that penetrate, wings that hit threes, and a dominant inside/out big man. I'll be happy if we keep it close, but I'm not expecting to, which is why the BGSU game was huge in my opinion.

http://www.emueagles.com/cumestats.aspx?...year=2016&

Amazing we are ave. almost 90 ppg in our wins vs. Omaha, Detroit-Mercy, Long Beach, CMU and BG.

(01-11-2017 08:04 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:47 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:25 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  It's a shame we don't get as much discussion after blow out win, like we do after a loss. I went back through our old schedules, and this was far and away Murphy's largest MAC road win. The next closest was CMU last year, which was by 19 points.

I'm curious to see if Lee's "indefinite suspension" is like Grayson Allen's and only lasts a game. Personally, I'd like to roll with this bunch in Athens, and I think Murph will too. Hopefully last year's experience, where we were blown out and Thompson was ejected, left a bad taste in our mouths and we go out there with a little more energy.

Frankly I am tired of raven or ray or whoever lee decides he is today let him sit the rest of the season I think we are a better TEAM without his moping and selfish play

Raven is an exceptional basketball player. None of us really understand the dynamics inside the lockerroom. I will say this is not good for our image. I would like to see how we fare against Ohio without him. We have such an inside advantage, JT4 alone could get us to 0.500 in the MAC. I believe we need Lee but if he is a distraction, maybe Murphy cuts him loose.

He's been a distraction for quite a while now.

Can we stop with the "Lee is bad for this team talk"? Ray is one of if not the best pure scorer on the team. He is no more selfish than Mangum is. I would actually say Willie is more selfish because he seems to shoot everytime he touches it even if he is 4-20 on the night. Ray does add something to this team whether you want to admit it or not. I'm with everyone else, I would love to see this team play against OU without him and then see what everyone says about how much he means.

(01-12-2017 08:45 AM)HailEMU Wrote:  Can we stop with the "Lee is bad for this team talk"? Ray is one of if not the best pure scorer on the team. He is no more selfish than Mangum is. I would actually say Willie is more selfish because he seems to shoot everytime he touches it even if he is 4-20 on the night. Ray does add something to this team whether you want to admit it or not. I'm with everyone else, I would love to see this team play against OU without him and then see what everyone says about how much he means.

Lets see multiple suspensions check, games where Murphy sat him because "Lee wasn't into it" check leaving a game and heading to the locker room while your teammates are trying to win a game in overtime check and subpar performance off and on while playing check. Raven, Ray or what other multiple personalities he has appears to be himself first and the TEAM second. If Creighton was his coach I doubt first of all that Raven slash Ray would be here at EMU and secondly I doubt Raven/Ray would still be on the team. Murphy's efforts at disciplining him over the years have failed to bring out the best of Ray/Raven's abilities on the court or helped him become a mature adult. How much of that is on Murphy and how much of that is on Raven/Ray can be debated. My guess is its half and half.

(01-12-2017 08:45 AM)HailEMU Wrote:  Can we stop with the "Lee is bad for this team talk"? Ray is one of if not the best pure scorer on the team. He is no more selfish than Mangum is. I would actually say Willie is more selfish because he seems to shoot everytime he touches it even if he is 4-20 on the night. Ray does add something to this team whether you want to admit it or not. I'm with everyone else, I would love to see this team play against OU without him and then see what everyone says about how much he means.

Lee's biggest problem as other has noted is inconsistency.

Others shooters, like Mangum, tend to be much more consistent.

I won't speculate off-court stuff like some do on here, but I will say the major difference between Mangum and Lee is that Willie plays his ass off and looks like he cares every game. Raven has that look sometimes, but far too often he appears to rather be anywhere else, with lazy defense and no real hustle. I think Willie does shoot a little too much, but his overall numbers for the season are pretty solid, all things considered. 37% on 8 3pt attempts a game isn't bad at all.

My only real gripe with Willie is when he goes to the basket, it's almost automatic that he's going to shoot it. I wish he'd hit Thompson or Steele more when the defense collapses on him. His assist numbers are up this year, and he's been better with moving the ball around, but our offense needs to get the ball in Thompson's hands more, and that's on our guards.

The most impressive thing about Mangum is how much better his shooting percentages are than when he was a JUCO. Usually it's the other way around. He became a more efficient scorer playing against much better athletes. Personally, I think he's one of Murphy's best recruits ever and he could be on his way to an All-MAC season.

(01-12-2017 10:21 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I won't speculate off-court stuff like some do on here, but I will say the major difference between Mangum and Lee is that Willie plays his ass off and looks like he cares every game. Raven has that look sometimes, but far too often he appears to rather be anywhere else, with lazy defense and no real hustle. I think Willie does shoot a little too much, but his overall numbers for the season are pretty solid, all things considered. 37% on 8 3pt attempts a game isn't bad at all.

My only real gripe with Willie is when he goes to the basket, it's almost automatic that he's going to shoot it. I wish he'd hit Thompson or Steele more when the defense collapses on him. His assist numbers are up this year, and he's been better with moving the ball around, but our offense needs to get the ball in Thompson's hands more, and that's on our guards.

The most impressive thing about Mangum is how much better his shooting percentages are than when he was a JUCO. Usually it's the other way around. He became a more efficient scorer playing against much better athletes. Personally, I think he's one of Murphy's best recruits ever and he could be on his way to an All-MAC season.

If you go back to my comments about Steele and Mangum and what I saw this past summer I thought Willie really had improved his ball handling and passing. I also commented I wasn't too impressed with LWH. I think Willie does give the TEAM and us fans the best he can. He's an intense competitor.

(01-12-2017 10:36 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:21 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I won't speculate off-court stuff like some do on here, but I will say the major difference between Mangum and Lee is that Willie plays his ass off and looks like he cares every game. Raven has that look sometimes, but far too often he appears to rather be anywhere else, with lazy defense and no real hustle. I think Willie does shoot a little too much, but his overall numbers for the season are pretty solid, all things considered. 37% on 8 3pt attempts a game isn't bad at all.

My only real gripe with Willie is when he goes to the basket, it's almost automatic that he's going to shoot it. I wish he'd hit Thompson or Steele more when the defense collapses on him. His assist numbers are up this year, and he's been better with moving the ball around, but our offense needs to get the ball in Thompson's hands more, and that's on our guards.

The most impressive thing about Mangum is how much better his shooting percentages are than when he was a JUCO. Usually it's the other way around. He became a more efficient scorer playing against much better athletes. Personally, I think he's one of Murphy's best recruits ever and he could be on his way to an All-MAC season.

If you go back to my comments about Steele and Mangum and what I saw this past summer I thought Willie really had improved his ball handling and passing. I also commented I wasn't too impressed with LWH. I think Willie does give the TEAM and us fans the best he can. He's an intense competitor.

I'm not sure I agree with the Lee and Mangum assessment. We know Willie's ability to shoot the three and we know how that digs us out of some early holes and gets us moving in the right direction but I don't think it's fair to suggest that he is any more consistent than Ray. They are both streaky. They both get hot and they both get cold. Frankly, Mangum's cold is much more detrimental than Ray's as Ray forces his way to the line and contributes in more than one way offensively. Mangum gets shot happy and wastes a lot of possessions.

We need them both to create a spark when JT and Baylee get bullied (which happens against teams with bigs). Him and Mangum both provide that spark. Ray's ceiling is just so much higher. But at this point, it gets tough to justify him if he isn't playing due to attitude. I get that. But when he has the look..... watch out.

One thing about Lee, as suggested:

When Lee is on fire, EMU can POTENTIALLY beat most teams in the country.

If Lee can hit 6 of 8 treys, JT4 have a good game, Mangum hit 40% of his treys, etc. etc. this team can bite some big boys.

Will Lee, JT4, Bond, Mangum, etc. all have big nights the same game? Not likely, BUT IF it happens watch out.

What I'm saying is that we have the talent, the 1 in 100 game, where everyone is having a big game to beat a top 25 team.

Not all teams have as much potential as we do. That is what our team frustrating. One game, one half we look like world beaters and then we look like we could get beat by Savannah State.

(01-12-2017 11:33 AM)Time2Fly Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:36 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:21 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I won't speculate off-court stuff like some do on here, but I will say the major difference between Mangum and Lee is that Willie plays his ass off and looks like he cares every game. Raven has that look sometimes, but far too often he appears to rather be anywhere else, with lazy defense and no real hustle. I think Willie does shoot a little too much, but his overall numbers for the season are pretty solid, all things considered. 37% on 8 3pt attempts a game isn't bad at all.

My only real gripe with Willie is when he goes to the basket, it's almost automatic that he's going to shoot it. I wish he'd hit Thompson or Steele more when the defense collapses on him. His assist numbers are up this year, and he's been better with moving the ball around, but our offense needs to get the ball in Thompson's hands more, and that's on our guards.

The most impressive thing about Mangum is how much better his shooting percentages are than when he was a JUCO. Usually it's the other way around. He became a more efficient scorer playing against much better athletes. Personally, I think he's one of Murphy's best recruits ever and he could be on his way to an All-MAC season.

If you go back to my comments about Steele and Mangum and what I saw this past summer I thought Willie really had improved his ball handling and passing. I also commented I wasn't too impressed with LWH. I think Willie does give the TEAM and us fans the best he can. He's an intense competitor.

I'm not sure I agree with the Lee and Mangum assessment. We know Willie's ability to shoot the three and we know how that digs us out of some early holes and gets us moving in the right direction but I don't think it's fair to suggest that he is any more consistent than Ray. They are both streaky. They both get hot and they both get cold. Frankly, Mangum's cold is much more detrimental than Ray's as Ray forces his way to the line and contributes in more than one way offensively. Mangum gets shot happy and wastes a lot of possessions.

We need them both to create a spark when JT and Baylee get bullied (which happens against teams with bigs). Him and Mangum both provide that spark. Ray's ceiling is just so much higher. But at this point, it gets tough to justify him if he isn't playing due to attitude. I get that. But when he has the look..... watch out.

Yes I agree to any extent, but Mangum doesn't get suspended or sat down because again using Murphy's own words (he's not into it). By the way you only mentioned offensive capabilities of each but not the defensive side. Care to comment on that?

I think it is fair to suggest Willie is more consistent than Ray, especially this year. The numbers don't lie. You say Raven "forces his way to the line", yet he only averages 1.5 free throw attempts more a game than Willie does. The only discernible difference on the stat sheet is that Ray is a MUCH better shooter at the line. If Willie hit FT's at Ray's percentage, he'd be averaging 1-2 points more per game.

You say that Ray "contributes in more than one way offensively", yet averages less than one assist more per game than Willie and over a turnover more. Ray also is shooting worse on 2-point field goal attempts (49% for WM and 45% for RL, rounding up) than Mangum, which is even a surprise to me. So in what ways, other than better FT shooting, is Lee contributing more offensively than Willie?

Look, I love the idea of Optimal Ray Lee. He is a much more talented all-around player than Mangum. But the difference is, Mangum is producing at a better rate and currently more valuable to the team on both ends of the floor. I don't think it's particularly close this season, either.