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OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
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cpawfan Offline
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OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
https://twitter.com/CraigMeyerPG/status/...85/photo/1


One of the points to ponder from the analytics he mentions is that the corner 3 is the best shot in basketball, yet UC's primary defense is one that allows a lot of uncontested corner 3s.

To relate this to both the Marshall and Tulane games, tonight against Tulane the ball has moved a lot and not just back and forth around the perimeter. The first half against Marshall was the perfect example of what most of us complain about regarding Mick's offense: players not moving/cutting, the ball sticking in certain players hands, poor ball movement leading to low % iso-looks, etc.
 
01-01-2017 08:55 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
corner three's aside...we KILLED THEM
 
01-01-2017 09:33 PM
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bearcatmark Online
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
The Bearcats are 4th in adjusted defense according to kenpom. I feel like our defensive strategy is pretty above reproach.
 
01-01-2017 09:35 PM
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bearcatmark Online
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
BTW... i really enjoyed D'Antoni's comments and i don't think he's wrong. His offense at Marshall is pretty freaking good with that philosophy. That said, he needs to figure out the defensive strategy to go with it
 
01-01-2017 09:36 PM
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RealDeal Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
Corner 3s are the most efficient shot in the NBA because it's a shorter shot. I don't believe that's true in college.
 
01-01-2017 09:37 PM
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cpawfan Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-01-2017 09:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The Bearcats are 4th in adjusted defense according to kenpom. I feel like our defensive strategy is pretty above reproach.

1) A couple of losses from last season still sting.

2) Overall defense is one thing. Critical situation defense is something else. The loss to RI had plenty of questionable defensive choices.

3) I agree with you on the pace/efficiency "argument," but you should realize that your use of the term kenpom has reached bad parody level. I groaned out loud when I read your reply.
 
01-01-2017 09:54 PM
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bearcatmark Online
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
I just use it because it's the best most readily available stat to quantify defense but i think whatever measure you want to use for the defense you'll find it's pretty exceptional.
 
01-01-2017 10:01 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
To be fair, those metrics are specifically in relation to the NBA court. Corner threes are nearly a foot closer to the tim than threes from the high wing/point in the NBA, in college they are much closer to exact length. I'm also not so sure our defense is set up to leave the corners open, our baseline simply doesn't cover the corners as well as they used to, probably due to Gary being in there rather than a Rashad Bishop type player.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2017 10:40 PM by BearcatMan.)
01-01-2017 10:40 PM
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franzeal Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-01-2017 10:40 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  To be fair, those metrics are specifically in relation to the NBA court. Corner threes are nearly a foot closer to the tim than threes from the high wing/point in the NBA, in college they are much closer to exact length. I'm also not so sure our defense is set up to leave the corners open, our baseline simply doesn't cover the corners as well as they used to, probably due to Gary being in there rather than a Rashad Bishop type player.

One of my favorites from our rebuilding years. He was a good Bearcat.
 
01-02-2017 01:46 AM
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crex043 Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
Those metrics are also in relation to NBA players and strategies as well. The NBA doesn't really place much focus on playing defense and there is a pronounced difference between college and NBA because NBA coaches are always complaining about how college coaches are ruining the game.

Dan D'Antoni is a national treasure? A bit overblown for a coach that has an 8-6 record currently.

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01-02-2017 07:03 AM
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Bearcatbdub Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
We used to play a lot more man to man. Last couple years we been playing this matchup zone. I think its to hide players on the interior who are not as mobile on defense.

If our offense was better, no one, and I mean no one would be complaining about our defense which is pretty damn good.
 
01-02-2017 10:54 AM
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-02-2017 01:46 AM)franzeal Wrote:  
(01-01-2017 10:40 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  To be fair, those metrics are specifically in relation to the NBA court. Corner threes are nearly a foot closer to the tim than threes from the high wing/point in the NBA, in college they are much closer to exact length. I'm also not so sure our defense is set up to leave the corners open, our baseline simply doesn't cover the corners as well as they used to, probably due to Gary being in there rather than a Rashad Bishop type player.

One of my favorites from our rebuilding years. He was a good Bearcat.

Yep. Sad that a lot of fans were not big on him. I'd take a clone of him every year.
 
01-02-2017 11:44 AM
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eroc Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-02-2017 07:03 AM)crex043 Wrote:  Those metrics are also in relation to NBA players and strategies as well. The NBA doesn't really place much focus on playing defense and there is a pronounced difference between college and NBA because NBA coaches are always complaining about how college coaches are ruining the game.

Dan D'Antoni is a national treasure? A bit overblown for a coach that has an 8-6 record currently.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using CSNbbs mobile app

i also think that NBA players are better shooters then college players so the numbers may hold true for the NBA but are probably not commensurate at the college level. i would be very interested in the analytics for the college level. i don't believe the numbers quoted by D'Antoni are for CBB.
 
01-02-2017 08:41 PM
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crex043 Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-02-2017 08:41 PM)eroc Wrote:  
(01-02-2017 07:03 AM)crex043 Wrote:  Those metrics are also in relation to NBA players and strategies as well. The NBA doesn't really place much focus on playing defense and there is a pronounced difference between college and NBA because NBA coaches are always complaining about how college coaches are ruining the game.

Dan D'Antoni is a national treasure? A bit overblown for a coach that has an 8-6 record currently.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using CSNbbs mobile app

i also think that NBA players are better shooters then college players so the numbers may hold true for the NBA but are probably not commensurate at the college level. i would be very interested in the analytics for the college level. i don't believe the numbers quoted by D'Antoni are for CBB.

Agreed. An NBA-calibur player hits the 3 if uncontested the vast majority of the time. Combine that with the lack of defense, and this leaves the possibility that D'Antoni's strategy works well for high % shooting teams like the Warriors but doesn't apply to the vast majority of college teams. And D'Antoni was pulling NBA data, not college data. If this method would have worked, one of the DI coaches would have built a successful program around it by now.
 
01-02-2017 10:59 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
FWIW, Marshall is now 2-0 and in an early lead of CUSA. That win could start looking more important if Marshall can win CUSA...or even finish strong.
 
01-03-2017 08:10 AM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
I prefer tough, bone jarring man to man defense to any type of zone. But that's just me. Mick has fallen in love with the match up zone it appears.

I don't really care because either way, Mick's teams play elite level defense.
 
01-06-2017 07:39 AM
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-06-2017 07:39 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I prefer tough, bone jarring man to man defense to any type of zone. But that's just me. Mick has fallen in love with the match up zone it appears.

I don't really care because either way, Mick's teams play elite level defense.

I've always been a man to man guy myself, but I get why Mick plays matchup zone in the modern game where many big men play further and further from the basket. It makes it harder for teams to force the big men away from the basketball possession after possession and also always for easier switching and passing players off when you need to. I'm far bigger on the matchup zone than other zone defense because the man to man principles still make it hard to find open areas. Additionally, I think it's harder to get a quick shot against a zone defense and with UC's press / shorter shot clock I think teams find themselves running out of time to get a good look against the zone.
 
01-06-2017 10:04 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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RE: OT: Dan D'Antoni on working the ball into the paint
(01-03-2017 08:10 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  FWIW, Marshall is now 2-0 and in an early lead of CUSA. That win could start looking more important if Marshall can win CUSA...or even finish strong.

Marshall beats ODU last night... Now at 3-0/10-6 and sharing the lead of CUSA with Western Kentucky. That UC win over Marshall continues to look good and better.
 
01-06-2017 11:31 AM
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