Gotta love James Franklin, "We just won the toughest conference in all of college football. Now, Committee, it's your turn."

He's right.

(12-04-2016 12:04 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  Gotta love James Franklin, "We just won the toughest conference in all of college football. Now, Committee, it's your turn."

Prepare to be disappointed James.

Yep. OSU was pencilled in in September.

I think it goes:
1) Alabama
2) Clemson
3) Washington
4) PSU
5) OSU
6) UM
7) OU

I think OSU is likely one of the top 3 teams but if you lose your division, don't win your conference championship, and lose head to head to the team that does, you should not be in the conversation. This system is more rigged than the BCS.

Ohio State has one 3-point loss on the road to Penn State and is tied for 1st in margin of victory (+28.5)

Penn State has two losses. One of those losses was by 3 points to a respectable, but unranked Pitt team. In the other, they were absolutely destroyed at Michigan 49-10. They sit in 12th by margin of victory at +13.8.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ohio State is a better team. Yes, Penn State beat them head-to-head, but they needed a 17-point 4th-quarter comeback with a field goal block returned for a touchdown to do it. And that game was at Penn State. If the committee's goal is to pick the 4 best teams in college football, they will pick Ohio State.

That said, Penn State absolutely has a legitimate gripe if they are passed over for Ohio State. The solution? I would like to see an 8-team playoff with conditional bids for conference champions + a couple of at-large bids. Some of the possibilities:

5 P5 champions + 3 at-large (yuck)
5 P5 champions + highest-ranked G5 champion + 2 at-large (much better)
Top 6 Conference Champions + 2 at-large (even better)
Conference Champions ranked in the top whatever (10, 15, 25?) + at-large to fill out the remainder.

(12-04-2016 12:44 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think OSU is likely one of the top 3 teams but if you lose your division, don't win your conference championship, and lose head to head to the team that does, you should not be in the conversation. This system is more rigged than the BCS.

Exactly. When they decided to put the selection completely behind closed doors with no hard rules, it switched to a beauty contest where the popular, rich kids will always have a leg up.

I absolutely agree OSU is a better team. However the committee set a precedent two years ago when they stopped TCU from 3 to 6 in the last poll because they didn't win their conference. Many metrics showed TCU was the best team in the country that year and their only loss was a narrow road loss at 11-1 Baylor.

I suspected at the time if their name had been Oklahoma or Texas they would not have been dropped. I suspect that's why the committee will screw PSU in favor of one of the legendary name programs.

(12-04-2016 08:10 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:44 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think OSU is likely one of the top 3 teams but if you lose your division, don't win your conference championship, and lose head to head to the team that does, you should not be in the conversation. This system is more rigged than the BCS.

Exactly. When they decided to put the selection completely behind closed doors with no hard rules, it switched to a beauty contest where the popular, rich kids will always have a leg up.

Yep... I think most of us saw this coming from day one. Never bought into the "every game counts" BS.

(12-04-2016 01:13 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Ohio State has one 3-point loss on the road to Penn State and is tied for 1st in margin of victory (+28.5)

Penn State has two losses. One of those losses was by 3 points to a respectable, but unranked Pitt team. In the other, they were absolutely destroyed at Michigan 49-10. They sit in 12th by margin of victory at +13.8.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ohio State is a better team. Yes, Penn State beat them head-to-head, but they needed a 17-point 4th-quarter comeback with a field goal block returned for a touchdown to do it. And that game was at Penn State. If the committee's goal is to pick the 4 best teams in college football, they will pick Ohio State.

That said, Penn State absolutely has a legitimate gripe if they are passed over for Ohio State. The solution? I would like to see an 8-team playoff with conditional bids for conference champions + a couple of at-large bids. Some of the possibilities:

5 P5 champions + 3 at-large (yuck)
5 P5 champions + highest-ranked G5 champion + 2 at-large (much better)
Top 6 Conference Champions + 2 at-large (even better)
Conference Champions ranked in the top whatever (10, 15, 25?) + at-large to fill out the remainder.

Agreed.

Let's be real. OSU is just plain better than PSU. Football already has an issue with a small number of data points, however to further distill to an even smaller data point - 1 game - in light of a more thorough set of data - performance over an entire season - is foolish.

OSU has played a tougher schedule, has beaten more teams that are highly rated, etc. I think they make the Playoffs and PSU misses....and rightfully so. PSU can gripe, and again....rightfully so. Maybe in the offseason (tho i doubt it) they can install some rule about winning your division/ conference.

Whatever.





mc

I think OSU should be in. Wins over Oklahoma, Michigan and Wisconsin. Only lose narrow one the road to B1G Champ. PSU has 2 losses (Pitt and smoked by Michigan on the road). The narrow head to head win, leading to B1G title is great, but I just don't think it's enough to overcome 2 losses and OSU's extra quality win.

I think committee has already shown a willingness to put OSU in when they have a weaker overall resume (To me TCU bad better resume 2 years ago), but this year I just think they've done more over the full season than Penn State.

(12-04-2016 09:47 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 01:13 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Ohio State has one 3-point loss on the road to Penn State and is tied for 1st in margin of victory (+28.5)

Penn State has two losses. One of those losses was by 3 points to a respectable, but unranked Pitt team. In the other, they were absolutely destroyed at Michigan 49-10. They sit in 12th by margin of victory at +13.8.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ohio State is a better team. Yes, Penn State beat them head-to-head, but they needed a 17-point 4th-quarter comeback with a field goal block returned for a touchdown to do it. And that game was at Penn State. If the committee's goal is to pick the 4 best teams in college football, they will pick Ohio State.

That said, Penn State absolutely has a legitimate gripe if they are passed over for Ohio State. The solution? I would like to see an 8-team playoff with conditional bids for conference champions + a couple of at-large bids. Some of the possibilities:

5 P5 champions + 3 at-large (yuck)
5 P5 champions + highest-ranked G5 champion + 2 at-large (much better)
Top 6 Conference Champions + 2 at-large (even better)
Conference Champions ranked in the top whatever (10, 15, 25?) + at-large to fill out the remainder.

Agreed.

Let's be real. OSU is just plain better than PSU. Football already has an issue with a small number of data points, however to further distill to an even smaller data point - 1 game - in light of a more thorough set of data - performance over an entire season - is foolish.

OSU has played a tougher schedule, has beaten more teams that are highly rated, etc. I think they make the Playoffs and PSU misses....and rightfully so. PSU can gripe, and again....rightfully so. Maybe in the offseason (tho i doubt it) they can install some rule about winning your division/ conference.

Whatever.





mc

tO$U failed the biggest data point vs Pederast State: They lost head to head. If this is all about judging how people feel concerning who SHOULD be the best team, just ship the trophy to Alabama and save a lot of time.
By your logic, Villanova should be stripped of their basketball championship against Georgetown in 1985, because Georgetown was still better on paper.

(12-04-2016 10:14 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 09:47 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 01:13 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Ohio State has one 3-point loss on the road to Penn State and is tied for 1st in margin of victory (+28.5)

Penn State has two losses. One of those losses was by 3 points to a respectable, but unranked Pitt team. In the other, they were absolutely destroyed at Michigan 49-10. They sit in 12th by margin of victory at +13.8.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ohio State is a better team. Yes, Penn State beat them head-to-head, but they needed a 17-point 4th-quarter comeback with a field goal block returned for a touchdown to do it. And that game was at Penn State. If the committee's goal is to pick the 4 best teams in college football, they will pick Ohio State.

That said, Penn State absolutely has a legitimate gripe if they are passed over for Ohio State. The solution? I would like to see an 8-team playoff with conditional bids for conference champions + a couple of at-large bids. Some of the possibilities:

5 P5 champions + 3 at-large (yuck)
5 P5 champions + highest-ranked G5 champion + 2 at-large (much better)
Top 6 Conference Champions + 2 at-large (even better)
Conference Champions ranked in the top whatever (10, 15, 25?) + at-large to fill out the remainder.

Agreed.

Let's be real. OSU is just plain better than PSU. Football already has an issue with a small number of data points, however to further distill to an even smaller data point - 1 game - in light of a more thorough set of data - performance over an entire season - is foolish.

OSU has played a tougher schedule, has beaten more teams that are highly rated, etc. I think they make the Playoffs and PSU misses....and rightfully so. PSU can gripe, and again....rightfully so. Maybe in the offseason (tho i doubt it) they can install some rule about winning your division/ conference.

Whatever.





mc

tO$U failed the biggest data point vs Pederast State: They lost head to head. If this is all about judging how people feel concerning who SHOULD be the best team, just ship the trophy to Alabama and save a lot of time.
By your logic, Villanova should be stripped of their basketball championship against Georgetown in 1985, because Georgetown was still better on paper.

And Penn State got smoked by Michigan... should Michigan be in ahead of them?

Pitt beat PSU and Clemson...maybe Pitt should be in the playoffs.

I just don't buy the argument that a close road loss should trump everything else on the resume. OSU has wins over Oklahoma, Michigan and Wisconsin. They lost one less game than PSU. Entire body of work matters.

1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Washington
4. Ohio State

BTW I'd be thrilled if OSU was left out in favor of Clemson, Washington and Penn State. I just don't really think it's justified by overall body of work.

(12-04-2016 10:17 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 10:14 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 09:47 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 01:13 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Ohio State has one 3-point loss on the road to Penn State and is tied for 1st in margin of victory (+28.5)

Penn State has two losses. One of those losses was by 3 points to a respectable, but unranked Pitt team. In the other, they were absolutely destroyed at Michigan 49-10. They sit in 12th by margin of victory at +13.8.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ohio State is a better team. Yes, Penn State beat them head-to-head, but they needed a 17-point 4th-quarter comeback with a field goal block returned for a touchdown to do it. And that game was at Penn State. If the committee's goal is to pick the 4 best teams in college football, they will pick Ohio State.

That said, Penn State absolutely has a legitimate gripe if they are passed over for Ohio State. The solution? I would like to see an 8-team playoff with conditional bids for conference champions + a couple of at-large bids. Some of the possibilities:

5 P5 champions + 3 at-large (yuck)
5 P5 champions + highest-ranked G5 champion + 2 at-large (much better)
Top 6 Conference Champions + 2 at-large (even better)
Conference Champions ranked in the top whatever (10, 15, 25?) + at-large to fill out the remainder.

Agreed.

Let's be real. OSU is just plain better than PSU. Football already has an issue with a small number of data points, however to further distill to an even smaller data point - 1 game - in light of a more thorough set of data - performance over an entire season - is foolish.

OSU has played a tougher schedule, has beaten more teams that are highly rated, etc. I think they make the Playoffs and PSU misses....and rightfully so. PSU can gripe, and again....rightfully so. Maybe in the offseason (tho i doubt it) they can install some rule about winning your division/ conference.

Whatever.





mc

tO$U failed the biggest data point vs Pederast State: They lost head to head. If this is all about judging how people feel concerning who SHOULD be the best team, just ship the trophy to Alabama and save a lot of time.
By your logic, Villanova should be stripped of their basketball championship against Georgetown in 1985, because Georgetown was still better on paper.

And Penn State got smoked by Michigan... should Michigan be in ahead of them?

Pitt beat PSU and Clemson...maybe Pitt should be in the playoffs.

I just don't buy the argument that a close road loss should trump everything else on the resume. OSU has wins over Oklahoma, Michigan and Wisconsin. They lost one less game than PSU. Entire body of work matters.

It just seems absurd to me that a school wins their conference division and CCG and one of the schools in the same division they beat along the way is moved ahead of them because they are perceived as being better.

(12-04-2016 10:27 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 10:17 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 10:14 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 09:47 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 01:13 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Ohio State has one 3-point loss on the road to Penn State and is tied for 1st in margin of victory (+28.5)

Penn State has two losses. One of those losses was by 3 points to a respectable, but unranked Pitt team. In the other, they were absolutely destroyed at Michigan 49-10. They sit in 12th by margin of victory at +13.8.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ohio State is a better team. Yes, Penn State beat them head-to-head, but they needed a 17-point 4th-quarter comeback with a field goal block returned for a touchdown to do it. And that game was at Penn State. If the committee's goal is to pick the 4 best teams in college football, they will pick Ohio State.

That said, Penn State absolutely has a legitimate gripe if they are passed over for Ohio State. The solution? I would like to see an 8-team playoff with conditional bids for conference champions + a couple of at-large bids. Some of the possibilities:

5 P5 champions + 3 at-large (yuck)
5 P5 champions + highest-ranked G5 champion + 2 at-large (much better)
Top 6 Conference Champions + 2 at-large (even better)
Conference Champions ranked in the top whatever (10, 15, 25?) + at-large to fill out the remainder.

Agreed.

Let's be real. OSU is just plain better than PSU. Football already has an issue with a small number of data points, however to further distill to an even smaller data point - 1 game - in light of a more thorough set of data - performance over an entire season - is foolish.

OSU has played a tougher schedule, has beaten more teams that are highly rated, etc. I think they make the Playoffs and PSU misses....and rightfully so. PSU can gripe, and again....rightfully so. Maybe in the offseason (tho i doubt it) they can install some rule about winning your division/ conference.

Whatever.





mc

tO$U failed the biggest data point vs Pederast State: They lost head to head. If this is all about judging how people feel concerning who SHOULD be the best team, just ship the trophy to Alabama and save a lot of time.
By your logic, Villanova should be stripped of their basketball championship against Georgetown in 1985, because Georgetown was still better on paper.

And Penn State got smoked by Michigan... should Michigan be in ahead of them?

Pitt beat PSU and Clemson...maybe Pitt should be in the playoffs.

I just don't buy the argument that a close road loss should trump everything else on the resume. OSU has wins over Oklahoma, Michigan and Wisconsin. They lost one less game than PSU. Entire body of work matters.

It just seems absurd to me that a school wins their conference division and CCG and one of the schools in the same division they beat along the way is moved ahead of them because they are perceived as being better.

It's not as simple as "perceived as being better." They are better by almost every computer metric, better by strength of record measures, have better overall wins and lost one less game. They objectively have been better despite one, close road loss to PSU. Great accomplishment for PSU, and again if the committee decides to reward their conference championship and leave OSU out I'll do cartwheels, but if the entire body of work matters, OSU has been the better team.

One more game no one is mentioning. Penn State crushed Michigan State just two weeks ago. O$U had to survive a failed two point conversion to narrowly beat the Spartans.

So which team is better over the last few weeks? No doubt, Penn State.

And Franklin said it best. Everyone says that the B10 is the best league this season, and we just won the league championship.

(12-04-2016 10:30 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 10:27 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 10:17 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 10:14 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 09:47 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Agreed.

Let's be real. OSU is just plain better than PSU. Football already has an issue with a small number of data points, however to further distill to an even smaller data point - 1 game - in light of a more thorough set of data - performance over an entire season - is foolish.

OSU has played a tougher schedule, has beaten more teams that are highly rated, etc. I think they make the Playoffs and PSU misses....and rightfully so. PSU can gripe, and again....rightfully so. Maybe in the offseason (tho i doubt it) they can install some rule about winning your division/ conference.

Whatever.





mc

tO$U failed the biggest data point vs Pederast State: They lost head to head. If this is all about judging how people feel concerning who SHOULD be the best team, just ship the trophy to Alabama and save a lot of time.
By your logic, Villanova should be stripped of their basketball championship against Georgetown in 1985, because Georgetown was still better on paper.

And Penn State got smoked by Michigan... should Michigan be in ahead of them?

Pitt beat PSU and Clemson...maybe Pitt should be in the playoffs.

I just don't buy the argument that a close road loss should trump everything else on the resume. OSU has wins over Oklahoma, Michigan and Wisconsin. They lost one less game than PSU. Entire body of work matters.

It just seems absurd to me that a school wins their conference division and CCG and one of the schools in the same division they beat along the way is moved ahead of them because they are perceived as being better.

It's not as simple as "perceived as being better." They are better by almost every computer metric, better by strength of record measures, have better overall wins and lost one less game. They objectively have been better despite one, close road loss to PSU. Great accomplishment for PSU, and again if the committee decides to reward their conference championship and leave OSU out I'll do cartwheels, but if the entire body of work matters, OSU has been the better team.

I understand objectively what you're saying Mark, and I could really care less about PSU as a fan, but it just doesn't feel fair.