That's pretty much what this came down to at least IMO. We're seeing states that haven't gone red since Ronald Reagan go red. Hillary really screwed herself not taking a more hard line stance with the free trade issues.

This could be the beginning of a realignment of the two major parties.

The democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

The MAC Strikes Back!

The rust belt turned on Nafta. That is all.

(11-09-2016 12:22 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  The democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

No, a coalition of Republicans and Democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

Those people didn't vote for Republicans...they voted for the outsider.

Republicans would do well to remember that. If they don't then those people will throw them out of office at the next opportunity.

If Republicans or neocons get the idea that it was THEIR stuff that got this win and start trying to push the same old HedgeFundy ship it to China with tax breaks plans then they'll be crushed next time.

The Dems were far more worried about letting men into women's bathrooms and supporting anarchists who hate this country, than the hard working people of the Rust Belt.

(11-09-2016 12:51 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  The Dems were far more worried about letting men into women's bathrooms and supporting anarchists who hate this country, than the hard working people of the Rust Belt.

Bingo. Those people were not important. They had no place to go.

Until they did.

Identity politics have bitten the Democrats this time.

The Wikileaks stuff was blown all out of proportion looking for gotchas. But if you read them for what they actually are.....they are just cynical people pulling levers to keep a gravy train to nowhere running. Democrats have to change. Republicans have to change.

Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania:

(1) Michigan - I grew up there.
(2) Pennsylvania - I went to school there.
(3) Ohio - I've spent my last 9 years here.

Those 3 states appear to have swung the election. I love all 3 states, I've spent 99% of my life in those states.

Good folk.

But --- it's fair to say, as one who has lived in all 3 states while visiting all of the 47 others --- they are more provincial and backward looking than the rest of America.

Witness the Penn State folk who, 5 years later, simply can't admit Joe Paterno screwed up.

Or witness the Ohio State folk who, 5 years later, simply can't admit Jim Tressel screwed up.

Or witness the Michigan folk who, 8 years later, simply can't admit that the Big 3 were failing in 2008 because they were consistently pumping out an inferior product vs. their foreign competition, and it finally caught up with them.

Trump seized on the provincialism of these states. And has won what looks like a historic upset as a result.

(11-09-2016 12:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 12:22 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  The democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

No, a coalition of Republicans and Democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

Those people didn't vote for Republicans...they voted for the outsider.

Republicans would do well to remember that. If they don't then those people will throw them out of office at the next opportunity.

If Republicans or neocons get the idea that it was THEIR stuff that got this win and start trying to push the same old HedgeFundy ship it to China with tax breaks plans then they'll be crushed next time.

The election was a brick through the windows of both parties establishment leaders

Every demographic should be able to vote in a president once in a while.

The recent presidents have been very hands off when it comes to job creation, letting the market forces guide the economy. There has been enabling of job creation such as simplifying access to business credit and saving industries with bailouts but not programs just for jobs.

Let's say Trump brings back energy jobs. He can do that and still maintain America's role in climate change initiatives.

He can cut taxes, cut military spending but at the same time beef up homeland security spending.

We will have to see.

(11-09-2016 01:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 12:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 12:22 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  The democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

No, a coalition of Republicans and Democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

Those people didn't vote for Republicans...they voted for the outsider.

Republicans would do well to remember that. If they don't then those people will throw them out of office at the next opportunity.

If Republicans or neocons get the idea that it was THEIR stuff that got this win and start trying to push the same old HedgeFundy ship it to China with tax breaks plans then they'll be crushed next time.

The election was a brick through the windows of both parties establishment leaders

And also the flaming bag of poo on their doorstep.

Ohio was a complete and total blowout

(11-09-2016 12:21 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  That's pretty much what this came down to at least IMO. We're seeing states that haven't gone red since Ronald Reagan go red. Hillary really screwed herself not taking a more hard line stance with the free trade issues.

This could be the beginning of a realignment of the two major parties.

Hillary's biggest mistake was assuming that the Rust Belt States would always go her way, and not spending enough time there rallying the voters. Failed to identify them as a disenfranchised group.

I can't say for sure without knowing how close those states will end up, but I'd be interested in knowing the percentage of people who voted for Sanders in those states who in turn voted Independent or Trump in the General election.

Bet you weren't anticipating this much #MACtion were you?

(11-09-2016 01:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 12:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 12:22 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  The democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

No, a coalition of Republicans and Democrats ruined the Rust Belt states.

Those people didn't vote for Republicans...they voted for the outsider.

Republicans would do well to remember that. If they don't then those people will throw them out of office at the next opportunity.

If Republicans or neocons get the idea that it was THEIR stuff that got this win and start trying to push the same old HedgeFundy ship it to China with tax breaks plans then they'll be crushed next time.

The election was a brick through the windows of both parties establishment leaders

Give an Amen to that !

It's rather astonishing that Ohio and Texas voted for Trump and Clinton at about the same percentages. Maybe in four years, the Democrats can actually spend some time and money campaigning here instead of wasting all their time in Ohio.