(10-04-2016 06:23 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 05:24 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 03:11 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 01:32 PM)Bear Wrote:  I would love for someone to explain:

that politely (through non-participation) kneeling during the anthem is WORSE than someone who

carries around the confederate flag (anti-union symbol for treason and treachery that cost a lot of American lives)?



(Don't forget Ole Miss)

LOL. You asked a real question.

Yea because university groups were on the field kneeling and waving the confederate flag. Outsiders don't understand North Carolina has one of the largest military bases and many alums go on to OCS after they graduate. Most military are very proud and will die for you and don't ask for **** but a little respect.

Universities themselves flew that confederate flag. That is far worse than a bunch of kids kneeling.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/us/ole-mis...ed-campus/

Why are people always trying to bootstrap their argument with the military and police? The kneeling doesn't seem to have anything with either. I am former military and I have never felt disrespected by somebody protesting or kneeling or whatever.

Spot on

(10-04-2016 07:47 PM)RoyK Wrote:  I am a proud veteran and I can tell you that people kneeling during the national anthem has not bothered me the least bit. I care way more about a system that has people struggling to just survive even after serving their country. Medical care struggles, politicians knowing giving polluted water and other things rank so much higher for me.

Thank you.

(10-04-2016 05:29 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-03-2016 10:03 PM)NTTHOR Wrote:  I don't disagree with you, but who is to say what is the right or wrong way to protest?

We all have just as much right to say what is the "right or wrong way to protest" as the protesters have to protest.

Does the constitution protect ECU band member's right to protest during the national anthem? Yes.

Does the constitution also protect my right to criticize them for doing so? Yes.

It is thier job to play the national anthem and they refused. They have freedom of speech but the band director can kick them the hell out for not doing thier one job they are on the field for. It is so simple

Absolutely. No "employer" is required to subsidize your free speech. If you don't perform your job duties because you are protesting, you can be fired.

(10-05-2016 06:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Does the constitution protect ECU band member's right to protest during the national anthem? Yes.

Incorrect as those 19 Marching Band Members broke 3 or 4 code of conduct (including breaking formation and refusing to perform while wearing Univ paid uniforms while having Univ paid for instruments) that all of those members signed prior to the start of band camp back in the summer.

I'm not incorrect, and neither are you beyond saying I am. The constitution does protect their right to protest during the national anthem - but only against government sanctions. The government (local, state, federal) cannot make it illegal for them to protest. But others - such as their employers - can punish them for doing so if it interferes with their job duties, etc.

What possibly creates a court situation should ECU kick them off the band is that ECU is an arm of government. It is a state organization, and so a band member booted off could argue that the government was punishing them for exercising their constitutional right. ECU would then have to show that the motivation for dismissal was strictly that they failed to perform their job duties and not punishment based on the content of their protest.

(10-05-2016 09:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 06:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Does the constitution protect ECU band member's right to protest during the national anthem? Yes.

Incorrect as those 19 Marching Band Members broke 3 or 4 code of conduct (including breaking formation and refusing to perform while wearing Univ paid uniforms while having Univ paid for instruments) that all of those members signed prior to the start of band camp back in the summer.

I'm not incorrect, and neither are you beyond saying I am. The constitution does protect their right to protest during the national anthem - but only against government sanctions. The government (local, state, federal) cannot make it illegal for them to protest. But others - such as their employers - can punish them for doing so if it interferes with their job duties, etc.

What possibly creates a court situation should ECU kick them off the band is that ECU is an arm of government. It is a state organization, and so a band member booted off could argue that the government was punishing them for exercising their constitutional right. ECU would then have to show that the motivation for dismissal was strictly that they failed to perform their job duties and not punishment based on the content of their protest.

Thanks Mr. Obvious. Explain why the teacher can't pack heat to class using that same constitutional rights rationale or why you can't carry in the Smithsonian, etc.

(10-05-2016 09:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 06:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Does the constitution protect ECU band member's right to protest during the national anthem? Yes.

Incorrect as those 19 Marching Band Members broke 3 or 4 code of conduct (including breaking formation and refusing to perform while wearing Univ paid uniforms while having Univ paid for instruments) that all of those members signed prior to the start of band camp back in the summer.

I'm not incorrect, and neither are you beyond saying I am. The constitution does protect their right to protest during the national anthem - but only against government sanctions. The government (local, state, federal) cannot make it illegal for them to protest. But others - such as their employers - can punish them for doing so if it interferes with their job duties, etc.

What possibly creates a court situation should ECU kick them off the band is that ECU is an arm of government. It is a state organization, and so a band member booted off could argue that the government was punishing them for exercising their constitutional right. ECU would then have to show that the motivation was strictly that they failed to perform their job duties and not to punishment based on the content of their protest.

And that's where ECU would have big problems, and if they kicked them off now it would be clear it's because the content of their protest was insanely unpopular and people were pulling or threatening to pull donations because of their actions. Maybe if he had done it beforehand he could have gotten away with that argument, but it would have been so bad in the court of public opinion that he'd have still been in trouble. He was damned either way. The only thing I think he could have done was pull the entire band from doing the anthem and have someone sing it or something to argue he wasn't singling out any individual band members, but even that might not have worked.

Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

2 more local articles that miss out on the fact that those band members REFUSED TO PLAY/PERFORM.

All they focused on was the kneeling (breaking band formation) but they almost always miss that BIG point of refusing to PLAY/PERFORM.

Also, since those band members that didn't play refused to speak to anyone in the media...no one knows what they were really protesting. (Could have been the mistreatment of lab rats for all I know).

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

Nah....let the band nerds have it. It isn't considered an assault if it is a beautiful smoothie. Kidding....kind of.

(10-05-2016 09:25 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

2 more local articles that miss out on the fact that those band members REFUSED TO PLAY/PERFORM.

All they focused on was the kneeling (breaking band formation) but they almost always miss that BIG point of refusing to PLAY/PERFORM.

Also, since those band members that didn't play refused to speak to anyone in the media...no one knows what they were really protesting. (Could have been the mistreatment of lab rats for all I know).

So what you are saying is that its ok to get assaulted for protesting peacefully. Ok great thanks for your input.

(10-05-2016 07:57 AM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 07:50 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 07:09 AM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 06:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Does the constitution protect ECU band member's right to protest during the national anthem? Yes.

Incorrect as those 19 Marching Band Members broke 3 or 4 code of conduct (including breaking formation and refusing to perform while wearing Univ paid uniforms while having Univ paid for instruments) that all of those members signed prior to the start of band camp back in the summer.

Those members can protest on their own time (i.e. like lunch time on Tues, Wed or Thur...or instead of hitting the coffee shop at night...they can protest on the quad), they can't "do what they want" when they are representing the ECU Marching Band, hence why the Music Dept leaders came out so strong the other day that there will be major consequences if they break band rules once more.

Once you start allowing people to break rules and choose amendments to hide behind you open up a can of worms. The plot thickens

http://www.witn.com/content/news/ECU-pro...18021.html

There's a difference between school rules and state laws. If this lady wants to carry her firearm on campus she needs to petition her legislature not the chancellor.

That is what she is doing, he openly wrote a letter supporting thier free speech even though what they did was against university policy. Now they are choosing what rules to enforce

You're missing the point. The chancellor does have the authority to pick and choose what school rules to enforce, fair or unfair. The chancellor does not have the authority to let this woman carry a firearm on campus as there is a state law prohibiting it. If she does carry her weapon onto campus she's likely to get arrested.

(10-05-2016 09:26 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

Nah....let the band nerds have it. It isn't considered an assault if it is a beautiful smoothie. Kidding....kind of.

So if I spit on you, throw bottles of water at you and hurl racial slurs at you then you are going to look at me and laugh?

(10-05-2016 09:25 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

2 more local articles that miss out on the fact that those band members REFUSED TO PLAY/PERFORM.

All they focused on was the kneeling (breaking band formation) but they almost always miss that BIG point of refusing to PLAY/PERFORM.

Also, since those band members that didn't play refused to speak to anyone in the media...no one knows what they were really protesting. (Could have been the mistreatment of lab rats for all I know).

Who cares what they were peacefully protesting if people were throwing things at them, spitting on them, and hurling slurs towards them that's crossing the line.

(10-05-2016 09:29 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:26 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

Nah....let the band nerds have it. It isn't considered an assault if it is a beautiful smoothie. Kidding....kind of.

So if I spit on you, throw bottles of water at you and hurl racial slurs at you then you are going to look at me and laugh?

Apples and Oranges. Band nerds are there to preform. If they don't want to do their jobs then bye. Be honest and tell me how well the protest would be handled if they protested illegal aliens coming into the US from Mexico. The response would be a lot less understanding.

Quote:Most Veterans are not offended by it...

Some actually agree with the peaceful act of protest

So just to clarify, you've spoken to most veterans, and they're not offended by it...

Well, you clearly didn't speak to my dad and the others that served with him.

(10-05-2016 09:34 AM)Sellular1 Wrote:  

Quote:Most Veterans are not offended by it...

Some actually agree with the peaceful act of protest

So just to clarify, you've spoken to most veterans, and they're not offended by it...

Well, you clearly didn't speak to my dad and the others that served with him.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't speak for 95% of them.

(10-05-2016 09:33 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:29 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:26 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

Nah....let the band nerds have it. It isn't considered an assault if it is a beautiful smoothie. Kidding....kind of.

So if I spit on you, throw bottles of water at you and hurl racial slurs at you then you are going to look at me and laugh?

Apples and Oranges. Band nerds are there to preform. If they don't want to do their jobs then bye. Be honest and tell me how well the protest would be handled if they protested illegal aliens coming into the US from Mexico. The response would be a lot less understanding.

Anyone spitting and throwing things at people should be arrested for assault, no matter what the protesters are protesting against. There is no place for that in this country no matter what your beliefs are.

In the real world you get fired for not doing your job. Might be a good life lesson to kick them out.

(10-05-2016 09:35 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:34 AM)Sellular1 Wrote:  

Quote:Most Veterans are not offended by it...

Some actually agree with the peaceful act of protest

So just to clarify, you've spoken to most veterans, and they're not offended by it...

Well, you clearly didn't speak to my dad and the others that served with him.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't speak for 95% of them.

I know the guys he's still close with feel the same way, he told me so.

(10-05-2016 09:33 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:29 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:26 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:19 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  Just saw this on another board.

http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/opinion...80f99.html

http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/10/05...afety.html

I understand that you have the right to boo but you do not have the right to assault.

Nah....let the band nerds have it. It isn't considered an assault if it is a beautiful smoothie. Kidding....kind of.

So if I spit on you, throw bottles of water at you and hurl racial slurs at you then you are going to look at me and laugh?

Apples and Oranges. Band nerds are there to preform. If they don't want to do their jobs then bye. Be honest and tell me how well the protest would be handled if they protested illegal aliens coming into the US from Mexico. The response would be a lot less understanding.

Are you even listening to yourself? We are talking about kids who took a knee during the national anthem. They didn't act violent in anyway whatsoever. If you don't agree with what they did then thats fine. You can voice your opinion. Boo, shout, yell to the high heavens for all I care but to assault them is just cowardly. But yet the only thing you want to say is well they should of performed. I don't care if they were protesting that they support ISIS. If it is done with non violence then your response should be non violent.