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(09-01-2016 02:41 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:12 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:08 PM)Moomba Wrote:  This is a little more than "slipping through the cracks", wouldn't you think?

Not really, it's pretty much the definition of that idiom.

You also don't know **** about the situation or what the staff knew and neither does anyone else on this board. You're barely hiding your giddiness about the staff having this issue and its kind of sickening.

+2

You knew as soon as story came out that at least someone would have a smile on his face.

Actually, no. I want to be flat out wrong about Fleck and his character, or lack thereof. I still do. Still hoping he leaves after this year for bigger and better things. Personal preference.

(09-01-2016 02:37 PM)Riley1903 Wrote:  During the recruiting process you talk extensively to high school coaches and others. If a kid is bad, it's known. I find it hard to believe that whomever recruited this kid didn't know he was trouble, especially with pending charges. He would have had to left Kalamazoo to go home at in the middle of the season to deal with his pending charges back home. You can't cover that up. I think we looked the other way on this one!

It doesn't add up does it?

(09-01-2016 02:42 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  If anyone else needs to be questioned about this, its the coaching staff in Ohio who apparently coerced a victim into not bringing a sexual assault case against white, but then went on to lead WMU's coaching staff to think that White was an upstanding citizen...

WMU really dropped the ball here... I mean does the admissions office do any sort of vetting of an individuals criminal history on its own? I mean... football or not, this kid was on campus... taking classes.

Yes, it' was the HS that did it.

(09-01-2016 02:45 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:42 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  If anyone else needs to be questioned about this, its the coaching staff in Ohio who apparently coerced a victim into not bringing a sexual assault case against white, but then went on to lead WMU's coaching staff to think that White was an upstanding citizen...

WMU really dropped the ball here... I mean does the admissions office do any sort of vetting of an individuals criminal history on its own? I mean... football or not, this kid was on campus... taking classes.

Yes, it' was the HS that did it.

Good lord moomba... lets just let the high school off the hook too for coercion of a victim in a sexual assault... The High School's handling of this kid definitely didn't do anything to curb his superiority complex and that he was above the law...

Come on.... he was a star RB for gosh sakes... he should be allowed to treat girls however he wants....

I don't buy that they gave him a good sendoff. Not for a minute. They know better. It's best to say nothing unless the kid is REALLY TROUBLE. Then you suggest they do a background check rather than saying anything, this is an area I know a little about due to my consulting work.

Smells of cya at another level to me.

(09-01-2016 02:42 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  WMU really dropped the ball here... I mean does the admissions office do any sort of vetting of an individuals criminal history on its own? I mean... football or not, this kid was on campus... taking classes.

In short, no. The admissions office handles upwards of 20,000 applications every year. Impossible to screen for that. A question is asked on the application about being convicted, but this kid was never even charged. I'm not sure what a background check would have found anyway.

(09-01-2016 02:12 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:08 PM)Moomba Wrote:  This is a little more than "slipping through the cracks", wouldn't you think?

Not really, it's pretty much the definition of that idiom.

You also don't know **** about the situation or what the staff knew and neither does anyone else on this board. You're barely hiding your giddiness about the staff having this issue and its kind of sickening.

We all knew that would be the situation, though, right? I mean, nobody roots against Fleck and WMU more than DB.

(09-01-2016 02:37 PM)Riley1903 Wrote:  During the recruiting process you talk extensively to high school coaches and others. If a kid is bad, it's known. I find it hard to believe that whomever recruited this kid didn't know he was trouble, especially with pending charges. He would have had to left Kalamazoo to go home at in the middle of the season to deal with his pending charges back home. You can't cover that up. I think we looked the other way on this one!

Something was definitely missed. It can't happen again.

(09-01-2016 03:33 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:42 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  WMU really dropped the ball here... I mean does the admissions office do any sort of vetting of an individuals criminal history on its own? I mean... football or not, this kid was on campus... taking classes.

In short, no. The admissions office handles upwards of 20,000 applications every year. Impossible to screen for that. A question is asked on the application about being convicted, but this kid was never even charged. I'm not sure what a background check would have found anyway.

Background checks do turn up arrests. Juvenile court records are public. Fail. All the tv station had to do was call.

(09-01-2016 02:41 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:38 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 01:30 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  We need background checks. Don't care for the excuse that most schools don't do it. I'm all for second chances too, but of the Cleveland Smith variety (had a gun illegally because he felt he needed it for safety), not this sociopathic stuff.

Anybody here know if juvenile offenses show up on these background checks?

Even the "second chance" stuff, I quibble with. There are plenty of real good kids who don't get the "First chance" at opportunities like this, but because we want the bigger, faster or stronger kid a little bit more we give him a "second chance", "because he deserves it". What about the kid who never got in trouble at all and has done everything the right way (good grades, good character)? Why doesn't that kid "deserve" even a first chance? Shouldn't he be given an opportunity before the kid who has done something bad? doesn't the problem-free kid "deserve" it more?

This is what college football has developed into. I'm disgusted that this happened; whether it happened at WMU or anywhere else. It doesn't matter that these punks were football players. They were WMU students too, and it would be no less disgusting or noteworthy if they were not on the football team. But they may have only been at WMU because they were football players.

I hope Fleck and other top administrative people from WMU literally visit the victim in this case to offer genuine condolence, and provide whatever support is needed. That is the right thing to do.

Great post.

So you people balked when Cleveland Smith's story was told? Nah, not buying it. It was uplifting.

(09-01-2016 03:38 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:41 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:38 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 01:30 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  We need background checks. Don't care for the excuse that most schools don't do it. I'm all for second chances too, but of the Cleveland Smith variety (had a gun illegally because he felt he needed it for safety), not this sociopathic stuff.

Anybody here know if juvenile offenses show up on these background checks?

Even the "second chance" stuff, I quibble with. There are plenty of real good kids who don't get the "First chance" at opportunities like this, but because we want the bigger, faster or stronger kid a little bit more we give him a "second chance", "because he deserves it". What about the kid who never got in trouble at all and has done everything the right way (good grades, good character)? Why doesn't that kid "deserve" even a first chance? Shouldn't he be given an opportunity before the kid who has done something bad? doesn't the problem-free kid "deserve" it more?

This is what college football has developed into. I'm disgusted that this happened; whether it happened at WMU or anywhere else. It doesn't matter that these punks were football players. They were WMU students too, and it would be no less disgusting or noteworthy if they were not on the football team. But they may have only been at WMU because they were football players.

I hope Fleck and other top administrative people from WMU literally visit the victim in this case to offer genuine condolence, and provide whatever support is needed. That is the right thing to do.

Great post.

So you people balked when Cleveland Smith's story was told? Nah, not buying it. It was uplifting.

He was a kid, junior in hs, not an adult that screwed up.

Lame analogy.

(09-01-2016 03:35 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:37 PM)Riley1903 Wrote:  During the recruiting process you talk extensively to high school coaches and others. If a kid is bad, it's known. I find it hard to believe that whomever recruited this kid didn't know he was trouble, especially with pending charges. He would have had to left Kalamazoo to go home at in the middle of the season to deal with his pending charges back home. You can't cover that up. I think we looked the other way on this one!

Something was definitely missed. It can't happen again.

We agree.

(09-01-2016 03:40 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:38 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:41 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:38 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 01:30 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  We need background checks. Don't care for the excuse that most schools don't do it. I'm all for second chances too, but of the Cleveland Smith variety (had a gun illegally because he felt he needed it for safety), not this sociopathic stuff.

Anybody here know if juvenile offenses show up on these background checks?

Even the "second chance" stuff, I quibble with. There are plenty of real good kids who don't get the "First chance" at opportunities like this, but because we want the bigger, faster or stronger kid a little bit more we give him a "second chance", "because he deserves it". What about the kid who never got in trouble at all and has done everything the right way (good grades, good character)? Why doesn't that kid "deserve" even a first chance? Shouldn't he be given an opportunity before the kid who has done something bad? doesn't the problem-free kid "deserve" it more?

This is what college football has developed into. I'm disgusted that this happened; whether it happened at WMU or anywhere else. It doesn't matter that these punks were football players. They were WMU students too, and it would be no less disgusting or noteworthy if they were not on the football team. But they may have only been at WMU because they were football players.

I hope Fleck and other top administrative people from WMU literally visit the victim in this case to offer genuine condolence, and provide whatever support is needed. That is the right thing to do.

Great post.

So you people balked when Cleveland Smith's story was told? Nah, not buying it. It was uplifting.

He was a kid, junior in hs, not an adult that screwed up.

Lame analogy.

Right, if you read my previous posts I agree theres no comparison with White. Brovol said he has an issue with second chances in general, thats what I'm addressing.

(09-01-2016 03:43 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:40 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:38 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:41 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:38 PM)brovol Wrote:  Even the "second chance" stuff, I quibble with. There are plenty of real good kids who don't get the "First chance" at opportunities like this, but because we want the bigger, faster or stronger kid a little bit more we give him a "second chance", "because he deserves it". What about the kid who never got in trouble at all and has done everything the right way (good grades, good character)? Why doesn't that kid "deserve" even a first chance? Shouldn't he be given an opportunity before the kid who has done something bad? doesn't the problem-free kid "deserve" it more?

This is what college football has developed into. I'm disgusted that this happened; whether it happened at WMU or anywhere else. It doesn't matter that these punks were football players. They were WMU students too, and it would be no less disgusting or noteworthy if they were not on the football team. But they may have only been at WMU because they were football players.

I hope Fleck and other top administrative people from WMU literally visit the victim in this case to offer genuine condolence, and provide whatever support is needed. That is the right thing to do.

Great post.

So you people balked when Cleveland Smith's story was told? Nah, not buying it. It was uplifting.

He was a kid, junior in hs, not an adult that screwed up.

Lame analogy.

Right, if you read my previous posts I agree theres no comparison with White. Brovol said he has an issue with second chances in general, thats what I'm addressing.

Really, because you quoted my post and said "you people". Oh, you were being racist?

I should have known.

(09-01-2016 03:46 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:43 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:40 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:38 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 02:41 PM)Moomba Wrote:  Great post.

So you people balked when Cleveland Smith's story was told? Nah, not buying it. It was uplifting.

He was a kid, junior in hs, not an adult that screwed up.

Lame analogy.

Right, if you read my previous posts I agree theres no comparison with White. Brovol said he has an issue with second chances in general, thats what I'm addressing.

Really, because you quoted my post and said "you people". Oh, you were being racist?

I should have known.

Yeah, you agreed with him. Are you dumb?

(09-01-2016 03:47 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:46 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:43 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:40 PM)Moomba Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:38 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  So you people balked when Cleveland Smith's story was told? Nah, not buying it. It was uplifting.

He was a kid, junior in hs, not an adult that screwed up.

Lame analogy.

Right, if you read my previous posts I agree theres no comparison with White. Brovol said he has an issue with second chances in general, thats what I'm addressing.

Really, because you quoted my post and said "you people". Oh, you were being racist?

I should have known.

Yeah, you agreed with him. Are you dumb?

Possibly, but I'm not a racist like you.

(09-01-2016 02:37 PM)Riley1903 Wrote:  During the recruiting process you talk extensively to high school coaches and others. If a kid is bad, it's known. I find it hard to believe that whomever recruited this kid didn't know he was trouble, especially with pending charges. He would have had to left Kalamazoo to go home at in the middle of the season to deal with his pending charges back home. You can't cover that up. I think we looked the other way on this one!

THIS

Can we just end this with...

Not a scholy athlete... Brought in to attempt to make the team. Bad vetting by coaching staff based on no huge red flags because they didn't really dig much into a walk on... Mistake. They weren't offering him a scholy so why do the extra work... Lesson learned... got another weak link to follow suit... ( anxious to see what Georges background turns up... Prob nothing... )

This is going to transform our recruiting tactics and philosophies. Let's not lose track of the fact that the ONLY criminals here are the a$$wagons who perpetrated the crime... End of story.

PUT MOOMBA ON IGNORE!

(09-01-2016 04:09 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Can we just end this with...

Not a scholy athlete... Brought in to attempt to make the team. Bad vetting by coaching staff based on no huge red flags because they didn't really dig much into a walk on... Mistake. They weren't offering him a scholy so why do the extra work... Lesson learned... got another weak link to follow suit... ( anxious to see what Georges background turns up... Prob nothing... )

This is going to transform our recruiting tactics and philosophies. Let's not lose track of the fact that the ONLY criminals here are the a$$wagons who perpetrated the crime... End of story.

FAIL. He was a preferred walk on.