(08-14-2016 11:11 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 03:00 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 01:54 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 09:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 07:49 AM)moehler Wrote:  mixed feelings about this, one hand why not put your name in the pot, what do you got to lose, on the other hand there is almost zero chance that the Big 12 would even seriously consider them, so it makes Ark State look kinda silly and foolish, that they even think they have a chance or deserve to be considered.

We are having a lot of fun with it. And in the end, its all supposed to be fun.

What is says to me is that if Ark State was willing to throw its hat into the ring for the B12 that its willing to move.

This could mean when the dust settles Ark State will get out of the belt and move over to CUSA which distances itself more from the SBC and lands a better TV deal with new schools on board in 2 years time.

One does not follow the other.
Paying $2 million to exit Sun Belt and getting little from Big XII as payment of entry fee can be cost-recovered in donations and ticket sales.
Doing something similar with AAC in proportion to their revenue can be cost recovered despite not having near the impact on sales and donations, assuming overall league revenue remains fairly constant.
With CUSA, unless they are waiving the admission fee AState cannot cost recover moving. We know from experience that outside of USM few members will do anything for our ticket sales.

AState's AD when discussing new projects always speaks in terms of peer programs and consistently lists AAC schools and sometimes MWC as examples, CUSA schools don't get that treatment.

AState won't be in CUSA unless CUSA splits roughly east and west and AState were invited to be part of the western group.

I'm saying that CUSA could waive the entrance fee and invite Texas St, Louisiana and Ark State. A trio too enticing to pass up in this example.

I know the Ohio AD mentioned before the great realignment of looking at 3 options.

1) Big East
2) Big East basketball w/ split.
3) CUSA

In 2010, he thought maybe the basketball schools of the Big East would split in a way that retained some football schools possibly. This is pre-G5 era thinking.

If you are AState and it appears you aren't ready for the B12 and Memphis is blocking you from the AAC, that maybe just maybe a CUSA deal could be worked out.

But of course times change. AState may feel a loyalty to CUSA even if others do not. CUSA could end up filling that opening with New Mexico State. Today the Ohio AD thinks differently.

1) AAC w/Marshall

CUSA makes no sense anymore. Big East basketball would never consider Ohio with Xavier in the conference. AAC only makes sense if we get the Marshall rivalry as part of the package, which won't happen.

Honestly, I highly doubt we'd even take that. We have no ties to Texas State really, and I'm not sure the Cajuns would present a strong enough league for us to consider. Especially when the TV deal is the same, and there is still a good chance that the remaining Sun Belt is a stronger conference.

Thing is Kitton, we're not doing this to get in CUSA. The Fan base is putting zero pressure on us to move right now. If we were still in the Sun Belt after everyone added, I think we'd be fine with that overall.

There are two ways that will get us to move to CUSA

1. Waive Entrance Fees, and get all 4 of AState, ULL, GS, and App to accept an invite together

2. Waive Entrance fees and SBC exit fees and realign the two leagues geographically.

(08-14-2016 11:11 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 03:00 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 01:54 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 09:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 07:49 AM)moehler Wrote:  mixed feelings about this, one hand why not put your name in the pot, what do you got to lose, on the other hand there is almost zero chance that the Big 12 would even seriously consider them, so it makes Ark State look kinda silly and foolish, that they even think they have a chance or deserve to be considered.

We are having a lot of fun with it. And in the end, its all supposed to be fun.

What is says to me is that if Ark State was willing to throw its hat into the ring for the B12 that its willing to move.

This could mean when the dust settles Ark State will get out of the belt and move over to CUSA which distances itself more from the SBC and lands a better TV deal with new schools on board in 2 years time.

One does not follow the other.
Paying $2 million to exit Sun Belt and getting little from Big XII as payment of entry fee can be cost-recovered in donations and ticket sales.
Doing something similar with AAC in proportion to their revenue can be cost recovered despite not having near the impact on sales and donations, assuming overall league revenue remains fairly constant.
With CUSA, unless they are waiving the admission fee AState cannot cost recover moving. We know from experience that outside of USM few members will do anything for our ticket sales.

AState's AD when discussing new projects always speaks in terms of peer programs and consistently lists AAC schools and sometimes MWC as examples, CUSA schools don't get that treatment.

AState won't be in CUSA unless CUSA splits roughly east and west and AState were invited to be part of the western group.

I'm saying that CUSA could waive the entrance fee and invite Texas St, Louisiana and Ark State. A trio too enticing to pass up in this example.

I know the Ohio AD mentioned before the great realignment of looking at 3 options.

1) Big East
2) Big East basketball w/ split.
3) CUSA

In 2010, he thought maybe the basketball schools of the Big East would split in a way that retained some football schools possibly. This is pre-G5 era thinking.

If you are AState and it appears you aren't ready for the B12 and Memphis is blocking you from the AAC, that maybe just maybe a CUSA deal could be worked out.

But of course times change. AState may feel a loyalty to CUSA even if others do not. CUSA could end up filling that opening with New Mexico State. Today the Ohio AD thinks differently.

1) AAC w/Marshall

CUSA makes no sense anymore. Big East basketball would never consider Ohio with Xavier in the conference. AAC only makes sense if we get the Marshall rivalry as part of the package, which won't happen.

Personally, if the Big 12 gives us an unexpected and shocking turn down , and Memphis blocks us from AAC. Then I'd prefer to build the SBC with the current lineup over CUSA.

If Louisiana were to bail and go to CUSA it would be a big motivator for us to follow. But probably not as big as in the past now that App and GaSo are around.

Seriously, the current SBC lineup is a good one to build with.

Side note, but Terry Mohajir was asked for a public comment on this yesterday, and for the first time of his life he declined.

He never declines comment...on anything.

(08-14-2016 04:22 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 07:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 06:40 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  As an ECU fan i promise i am not telling your AD to know his place.. I do think,however, that if the goal is to position ones self for the AAC, there is a risk of appearing disconnected to the current trends in college sports that usually propel schools into desirable positions.

It seems like this is such a stretch ,that it calls into question the substance of Ark States argument for being a peer of many American teams. In other words,imo,this runs the risk of style over substance.

First the old model is bunk.
That's something I've been contending for years and CUSA proved.
Markets didn't deliver audience for FS1 and Fox lost interest in doing anything with CUSA other than weeknights they didn't want to play on. Nielsen TV markets being a proxy for viewership has been long discarded for real data on viewership not that conferences seemed to notice.

Arkansas State has narrowed the gap vs AAC in measurable categories.

Our fan base is a bit different.

We have zero G5 schools in our state. We have only one other G5 within 300 miles of campus (Memphis 70 miles away).

There is no pressure from our fan base to get in CUSA and we accept that Memphis will work actively to prevent AState from getting to the vote stage.

None of that means we can't toss our name in the Big XII hat and end up on a list with 10 AAC members and five MWC schools.
None of it means that when someone asks why do that when what you have is good enough for Sun Belt that we cannot answer we are comparing ourselves to AAC and MWC and what we have isn't good enough yet.

I remember only too well that ECU compared itself to Big East from 1991 forward. Big East added Louisville, Cincinnati, USF, TCU, Houston, UCF, SMU, Memphis, Boise State, and San Diego State all before inviting ECU and then slapped ECU by making it football only while Tulane got a full invite.

Was ECU's path style over substance? It wasn't ECU's fault that Big East leadership picked "markets" over an ECU program that was winning games and selling tickets. Maybe ECU should not have been so hopeful in 2003 when the rumors were that ECU would be passed over by the Big East but your interim AD said he wasn't accepting that as set in stone. Didn't work then but what harm came to ECU measuring itself vs Big East?

Except, respectfuly,ECU had a significantly better resume when applying to Big East than Ark State has now. For example, one of the largest fan basses for non BCS schools,wins against many nationaly ranked opponents, including beating a top 10 Miami school twice,wins against Stanford, Unc ,Nc State, Va Tech, and a number 9 finish in the polls. ECU had earned the right to put our name in the hat.

Ark State has one win against a P5 school right? My point is,i am not sure what Ark State has done to make this look like anything but a publicity stunt.

You might wish to look a tad harder.
ECU first made noise about wanting in the Big East after going 11-1, the second winning season for ECU football in 8 years. I fail to see that see that as an impressive resume (and ya'll got SCREWED on that onside kick vs Illinois in the only loss).

I know your program far better than you know mine.
But guess what you are more aware of it for what you call a publicity stunt.

(08-14-2016 11:31 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Side note, but Terry Mohajir was asked for a public comment on this yesterday, and for the first time of his life he declined.

He never declines comment...on anything.

But it's a publicity stunt.

stAte has been told over and over in our own state that we can't do that and we do. Now we are being told by other fans "you can't apply for the Big 12". Well we did. Why should we follow the script...whatever that may be. In this case we only answer to ourselves. Besides that I imagine a lot of the naysayers are out on a road kicking a can with their head down saying "I wish our idiot AD had the guts to do that."

Let's all cut the crap and be honest, the only realistic aspirations any of us have in the next 10-20 years would be to become members in the top athletic conference in the G5. As things currently stand that would be the AAC. We're all preparing ourselves to varying degrees for this. The problem is that the P5 needs to expand to allow lower tier G5 schools to move up some and get in the mix for AAC membership. As it currently stands, the Big XII is only adding two schools as the most likely outcome. I doubt that that's enough change to create any upward movement within Sun Belt membership. Down the road if there is any additional growth in P5 membership, this will almost certainly affect the Sun Belt, but who knows when this will be.

(08-14-2016 01:49 PM)pjc1979 Wrote:  Let's all cut the crap and be honest, the only realistic aspirations any of us have in the next 10-20 years would be to become members in the top athletic conference in the G5. As things currently stand that would be the AAC. We're all preparing ourselves to varying degrees for this. The problem is that the P5 needs to expand to allow lower tier G5 schools to move up some and get in the mix for AAC membership. As it currently stands, the Big XII is only adding two schools as the most likely outcome. I doubt that that's enough change to create any upward movement within Sun Belt membership. Down the road if there is any additional growth in P5 membership, this will almost certainly affect the Sun Belt, but who knows when this will be.

stop it, your making too much sense

(08-13-2016 07:40 AM)moonshine Wrote:  Congrats to stAte on having a seat at the table regardless of the outcome. If you leave us, don't go getting all big headed on your former brethren. Think Mohajir will give App a home n home?

So that's the finger you wear your ring on when you marry your sister!

(08-14-2016 01:49 PM)pjc1979 Wrote:  Let's all cut the crap and be honest, the only realistic aspirations any of us have in the next 10-20 years would be to become members in the top athletic conference in the G5. As things currently stand that would be the AAC. We're all preparing ourselves to varying degrees for this. The problem is that the P5 needs to expand to allow lower tier G5 schools to move up some and get in the mix for AAC membership. As it currently stands, the Big XII is only adding two schools as the most likely outcome. I doubt that that's enough change to create any upward movement within Sun Belt membership. Down the road if there is any additional growth in P5 membership, this will almost certainly affect the Sun Belt, but who knows when this will be.

If AAC loses two I think their best options are
1) Add Wyoming, Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico
2) Stay at 10

Neither of those options helps any of us get to AAC.

But none of it prevents us from looking at AAC and measuring our facilities, budgets, attendance and success against them.

Our past leadership measured us against whomever was atop the Sun Belt and even at the worst times they could look and say "well we are pretty close". Since we have changed our measure we've been working a lot harder and I suspect we aren't the only one in the league using outside measuring sticks.

The ECU guy is funny. So ECU deserved to apply and express interest in better conferences because they had a good record?
YET - Here they are with their name "in the hat" at 5-7? And Ark State hasn't "earned" the right to put their name "in the hat"...

Hey buddy, there isn't a check list next to the hat and there is no application fee.

Nobody has to follow the path ECU did. Nobody here even wants a part of the CUSA of today as that would be a step backwards in football power.

AAC first and then the BIG12 might seem like a more logical plan, but as far as I know - They haven't announced expansion plans i.e..... they don't have a "hat" sitting outside the conference door (and if they did... A bunch of SBC teams would have their name in there that want no part of CUSA).

The AAC is not a P5, so there really is no position to stand in line. I mean - if you think that way - Why did the mighty CUSA go straight to FCS programs.. scratch that... straight to new programs with NO TEAM for new members? How did UNCC "earn" an invite to anything? There is no line, we are "just as good as any of you".

Good move Ark State.

(08-14-2016 05:59 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  The ECU guy is funny. So ECU deserved to apply and express interest in better conferences because they had a good record?
YET - Here they are with their name "in the hat" at 5-7? And Ark State hasn't "earned" the right to put their name "in the hat"...

Hey buddy, there isn't a check list next to the hat and there is no application fee.

Nobody has to follow the path ECU did. Nobody here even wants a part of the CUSA of today as that would be a step backwards in football power.

AAC first and then the BIG12 might seem like a more logical plan, but as far as I know - They haven't announced expansion plans i.e..... they don't have a "hat" sitting outside the conference door (and if they did... A bunch of SBC teams would have their name in there that want no part of CUSA).

The AAC is not a P5, so there really is no position to stand in line. I mean - if you think that way - Why did the mighty CUSA go straight to FCS programs.. scratch that... straight to new programs with NO TEAM for new members? How did UNCC "earn" an invite to anything? There is no line, we are "just as good as any of you".

Good move Ark State.

One of the best single lines ever posted on this board.

(08-14-2016 12:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 11:31 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Side note, but Terry Mohajir was asked for a public comment on this yesterday, and for the first time of his life he declined.

He never declines comment...on anything.

But it's a publicity stunt.

How'd you get more rep points than me?!? You must be buying them.

Big 12 adds Cincinnati, Colorado State, and two of BYU, Houston, or Memphis.

AAC responds by adding USM and NIU or possibly Arkansas State if Memphis is taken.

MWC responds by adding NMSU.

MAC adds Marshall if NIU is taken, but otherwise stays put.

CUSA stays put if both Marshall and USM are taken, and adds JMU if only one is taken.

Sun Belt adds Chatty if Arkansas State is taken.

(08-14-2016 08:04 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 08:02 AM)moehler Wrote:  ECU chances-slim and none
Ark State chances-not a snowball chance in hell

Ecu was one of of 8 teams Fox approved for expansion. But yes,slim to nil.

ECU message board your source? That is good.

(08-13-2016 06:40 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 05:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 05:34 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 03:00 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 01:54 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  What is says to me is that if Ark State was willing to throw its hat into the ring for the B12 that its willing to move.

This could mean when the dust settles Ark State will get out of the belt and move over to CUSA which distances itself more from the SBC and lands a better TV deal with new schools on board in 2 years time.

One does not follow the other.
Paying $2 million to exit Sun Belt and getting little from Big XII as payment of entry fee can be cost-recovered in donations and ticket sales.
Doing something similar with AAC in proportion to their revenue can be cost recovered despite not having near the impact on sales and donations, assuming overall league revenue remains fairly constant.
With CUSA, unless they are waiving the admission fee AState cannot cost recover moving. We know from experience that outside of USM few members will do anything for our ticket sales.

AState's AD when discussing new projects always speaks in terms of peer programs and consistently lists AAC schools and sometimes MWC as examples, CUSA schools don't get that treatment.

AState won't be in CUSA unless CUSA splits roughly east and west and AState were invited to be part of the western group.

I dont get it,what does Ark State have that the rest of tge Sun Belt, Cusa and most of the MAC schools don't? How does this put Ark State in a better position going forward? Are you not worried that your AD is creating a narrative that woukd make tge AAC Ad's nervous as to how realistic Ark State is?

I get the swing for tge fence vision,but it seems like Ark State might lose some credibility going forward when it looks like your AD is trying to shortcut a rise through the ranks.

To be a true peer,the desired peer group must also acknowledge the equality of the relationship, right?

lol...we don't know our proper place. We've been told that for years. Apparently its true.

As an ECU fan i promise i am not telling your AD to know his place.. I do think,however, that if the goal is to position ones self for the AAC, there is a risk of appearing disconnected to the current trends in college sports that usually propel schools into desirable positions.

It seems like this is such a stretch ,that it calls into question the substance of Ark States argument for being a peer of many American teams. In other words,imo,this runs the risk of style over substance.

Following your comments in recent days, I have to ask "why are you so concerned over A-State's contact with the Big X!!"? You seem too concerned, even a little jealous. You have to fear that a State effort will hurt ECU in some way. Level with us.

(08-14-2016 05:59 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  The ECU guy is funny. So ECU deserved to apply and express interest in better conferences because they had a good record?
YET - Here they are with their name "in the hat" at 5-7? And Ark State hasn't "earned" the right to put their name "in the hat"...

Hey buddy, there isn't a check list next to the hat and there is no application fee.

Nobody has to follow the path ECU did. Nobody here even wants a part of the CUSA of today as that would be a step backwards in football power.

AAC first and then the BIG12 might seem like a more logical plan, but as far as I know - They haven't announced expansion plans i.e..... they don't have a "hat" sitting outside the conference door (and if they did... A bunch of SBC teams would have their name in there that want no part of CUSA).

The AAC is not a P5, so there really is no position to stand in line. I mean - if you think that way - Why did the mighty CUSA go straight to FCS programs.. scratch that... straight to new programs with NO TEAM for new members? How did UNCC "earn" an invite to anything? There is no line, we are "just as good as any of you".

Good move Ark State.

In the bizarro world maybe

9-1 CUSA vs Sunbelt since current team lineup

Winless Charlotte beats Sunbelt Bowl team
Tech dominates Undefeated Sunbelt Champs and breaks NO Bowl record
WKU and Tech had as many draft picks as the whole Sunbelt Conference

LA Tech fans September's coming.

(08-15-2016 08:04 AM)Dawgxas Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 05:59 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  The ECU guy is funny. So ECU deserved to apply and express interest in better conferences because they had a good record?
YET - Here they are with their name "in the hat" at 5-7? And Ark State hasn't "earned" the right to put their name "in the hat"...

Hey buddy, there isn't a check list next to the hat and there is no application fee.

Nobody has to follow the path ECU did. Nobody here even wants a part of the CUSA of today as that would be a step backwards in football power.

AAC first and then the BIG12 might seem like a more logical plan, but as far as I know - They haven't announced expansion plans i.e..... they don't have a "hat" sitting outside the conference door (and if they did... A bunch of SBC teams would have their name in there that want no part of CUSA).

The AAC is not a P5, so there really is no position to stand in line. I mean - if you think that way - Why did the mighty CUSA go straight to FCS programs.. scratch that... straight to new programs with NO TEAM for new members? How did UNCC "earn" an invite to anything? There is no line, we are "just as good as any of you".

Good move Ark State.

In the bizarro world maybe

9-1 CUSA vs Sunbelt since current team lineup

Winless Charlotte beats Sunbelt Bowl team
Tech dominates Undefeated Sunbelt Champs and breaks NO Bowl record
WKU and Tech had as many draft picks as the whole Sunbelt Conference

Draft picks in one year is cherry picking at its finest. ASU had someone drafted for 8 or 9 years in a row before last year.

USA beat the undefeated champs of MWC who blew out Cincy in a bowl last year.

Tech dominated one half of a bowl game against a depleted roster.

Anyone can play that game. Nobody who knows anything about college football thinks there is much difference at all between the SBC, CUSA and MAC.

(08-15-2016 06:35 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 06:40 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 05:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 05:34 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 03:00 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  One does not follow the other.
Paying $2 million to exit Sun Belt and getting little from Big XII as payment of entry fee can be cost-recovered in donations and ticket sales.
Doing something similar with AAC in proportion to their revenue can be cost recovered despite not having near the impact on sales and donations, assuming overall league revenue remains fairly constant.
With CUSA, unless they are waiving the admission fee AState cannot cost recover moving. We know from experience that outside of USM few members will do anything for our ticket sales.

AState's AD when discussing new projects always speaks in terms of peer programs and consistently lists AAC schools and sometimes MWC as examples, CUSA schools don't get that treatment.

AState won't be in CUSA unless CUSA splits roughly east and west and AState were invited to be part of the western group.

I dont get it,what does Ark State have that the rest of tge Sun Belt, Cusa and most of the MAC schools don't? How does this put Ark State in a better position going forward? Are you not worried that your AD is creating a narrative that woukd make tge AAC Ad's nervous as to how realistic Ark State is?

I get the swing for tge fence vision,but it seems like Ark State might lose some credibility going forward when it looks like your AD is trying to shortcut a rise through the ranks.

To be a true peer,the desired peer group must also acknowledge the equality of the relationship, right?

lol...we don't know our proper place. We've been told that for years. Apparently its true.

As an ECU fan i promise i am not telling your AD to know his place.. I do think,however, that if the goal is to position ones self for the AAC, there is a risk of appearing disconnected to the current trends in college sports that usually propel schools into desirable positions.

It seems like this is such a stretch ,that it calls into question the substance of Ark States argument for being a peer of many American teams. In other words,imo,this runs the risk of style over substance.

Following your comments in recent days, I have to ask "why are you so concerned over A-State's contact with the Big X!!"? You seem too concerned, even a little jealous. You have to fear that a State effort will hurt ECU in some way. Level with us.

It is bizarre and petty.