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UTEP will have a massive offensive line
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Eagle9 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
What do Georgia tech and navy have to do with the point I made ? Inside zone doesn't just mean "inside running play", zone is a blocking scheme. A trap play is also an inside run, but it's not a zone play. Most NFL teams run zone schemes, so does Alabama. They have huge lines.

The reason you see more pulling, trapping, and counter plays at the High School level is because they have smaller, quicker lineman.
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2016 12:56 PM by Eagle9.)
08-12-2016 12:55 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-11-2016 04:39 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 12:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 11:46 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Give me an OLine that's 275-280 that can move side to side and backwards and can tackle than a bunch of immobile 300-325 pound linemen that gets beat at the line time after time.

I'm a little confused, what is it about that 20-50 lbs of difference in the two groups that means the heavier linemen can't move ss well?

You can be agile at 280, but not 300?

The question was CAN they move. A lot of times G5 schools that have offensive lineman that big aren't as athletic as the smaller lines, thus leaving them open to being beaten consistently. They may not get pushed back but they don't get up the field or pull quick enough in run blocking.

I guess there was a bit of that discussion going on prior to your response, it just read to me like you were saying bigger definitely equals slower.
08-12-2016 02:19 PM
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ericsaid Offline
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Post: #23
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-12-2016 12:55 PM)Eagle9 Wrote:  What do Georgia tech and navy have to do with the point I made ? Inside zone doesn't just mean "inside running play", zone is a blocking scheme. A trap play is also an inside run, but it's not a zone play. Most NFL teams run zone schemes, so does Alabama. They have huge lines.

The reason you see more pulling, trapping, and counter plays at the High School level is because they have smaller, quicker lineman.

But UTEP's offensive line isn't equal to Alabama in athleticism and most certainly all will not be going to the NFL. I know what an inside run is versus the blocking scheme inherent in the play call. My gripe is that the teams who generally are more successful in zone blocking scheme's have more athletic lineman, regardless of size, than what your massive line has.
08-12-2016 04:56 PM
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ericsaid Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-12-2016 02:19 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(08-11-2016 04:39 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 12:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 11:46 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Give me an OLine that's 275-280 that can move side to side and backwards and can tackle than a bunch of immobile 300-325 pound linemen that gets beat at the line time after time.

I'm a little confused, what is it about that 20-50 lbs of difference in the two groups that means the heavier linemen can't move ss well?

You can be agile at 280, but not 300?

The question was CAN they move. A lot of times G5 schools that have offensive lineman that big aren't as athletic as the smaller lines, thus leaving them open to being beaten consistently. They may not get pushed back but they don't get up the field or pull quick enough in run blocking.

I guess there was a bit of that discussion going on prior to your response, it just read to me like you were saying bigger definitely equals slower.

No, I am saying that at the G5 level, it is difficult to get lineman that big who are also have adequate athleticism though one isn't necessarily present without the other at all times.

But the comparison of an NFL team running a zone scheme or any scheme with the same size players as UTEP isn't an indictment that big guys can move too, it's just that I doubt UTEP has attracted NFL caliber offensive lineman across the board to justify making that comparison.

When it comes to a G5 team, I personally would rather see between 6-2 to 6-4 and 285 to 300 pounds on the line. Tackles can be larger because they need the wing span. However you want your interior guys to move.
08-12-2016 04:59 PM
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stanman505 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
Just thought I would add something to the discussion. No team in CUSA has defensive linemen with the size and athleticism as and NFL team. Another thing is that most defenses are designed to play against a spread type of offense. This requires completely different game preparation which is what a team's like Navy and Georgia Tech have. In case you didn't know already Coach Kuglar was the offensive line coach for the Steelers before coming to UTEP. Coach Kuglar has stated that this offensive line is the best he has had at UTEP and that Aaron rushed for 1,321 yards in 12 games. We will see how it plays out but UTEP was able to rush for close to 2,000 yards while using 7 different backs because of injuries. So it is my opinion that the offensive linemen UTEP has are athletic. I am looking forward to this match up during the season.
08-12-2016 11:48 PM
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EagNBran Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
But can they pass the ball. I've always seen UTEP as a team that can run decently, but can they pass it? And can they play defense?
08-13-2016 12:10 AM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-13-2016 12:10 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  But can they pass the ball. I've always seen UTEP as a team that can run decently, but can they pass it? And can they play defense?

Good questions that won't be answered until a couple of games into the season. Right now all is rosy because in camp when the passing game is working well is it due to good offense or bad defense? Don't really know.

If the Miners can't handle NMSU and then put on a decent game at Texas, then the questions might be answered in the negative. On the other hand, a solid win to open the season followed by a good performance vs the Longhorns, we may be on the way to having a very good season.
08-13-2016 07:44 AM
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jamrob Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2016 04:30 PM by jamrob.)
08-22-2016 04:15 PM
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Eagleholic Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

Should easily win CUSA with that NFL O-line.
08-22-2016 06:22 PM
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goliath74 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
I recall watching Mississippi Valley State O-Line about 20 years ago with about 1200 pounds of an offensive line at once. I wasn't sure they ever moved.
08-22-2016 07:27 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?
08-22-2016 07:34 PM
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El Runner Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 07:34 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?

In the last 16 years La Tech has had only 2 OL drafted, the last being Jordan Mills. Willie Roaf was a La Tech grad and I believe a hall of famer. So La Tech isn't a mill producing OL for the nfl every year. Mills was a sixth rounder and I don't think he even is on a NFL roster at the moment.
08-22-2016 07:55 PM
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Dawgxas Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-10-2016 07:43 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  The point of the EP Times article about the size of the UTEP O-line is to point out that as coach Kugler, a former UTEP O-lineman, is entering his 4th year as the head man and making good on building his team to be a big, strong, physical one. His first year he had to weed out a bunch of players that did not have the work ethic on the field or in the classroom and the undermanned team went 2-10. Second year saw a big improvement in the classroom and a 7-5 record with a bowl appearance. A loss unfortunately. Third year saw an unreasonable level of injuries with starting qb missing several games and star rb lost for the year among them and barely missed qualifying for a 2nd straight bowl. Now the fourth year, big and deep O-line, deep at rb, a few faster receivers and more depth at qb. Looking for his rebuild to be near completion this season with another bowl appearance and hopefully a win there too.

I think UTEP will have the most improved team this year
08-22-2016 08:19 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 07:55 PM)El Runner Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 07:34 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?

In the last 16 years La Tech has had only 2 OL drafted, the last being Jordan Mills. Willie Roaf was a La Tech grad and I believe a hall of famer. So La Tech isn't a mill producing OL for the nfl every year. Mills was a sixth rounder and I don't think he even is on a NFL roster at the moment.

So what you're saying is that the poster claiming 4 on the current roster may be optimistic? 04-jawdrop
08-22-2016 09:27 PM
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jamrob Offline
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Post: #35
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 07:34 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?

Two Seniors only but they rank no.3 and no.4 talent wise. It is an unusually talented line for us. We ususlly get one or two in camp, but theres almost always a starter in the league. Brown and Wixon are the Seniors. Dugas the sophomore, a very athletic 6-5 330 was a freshman All American last season. Outlaw the junior, 6-6 305 was the no. 24 OG nationally out of high school.

It is a sign of an established program when you can get both O Line and D Line drafted and we have been trending up in that regard.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2016 06:54 AM by jamrob.)
08-23-2016 06:26 AM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #36
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
All of this discussion leads me to believe that the solid, established football programs in C-USA presently are, in no particular order:

Marshall, USM, LT, WKU, MT, Rice.

Those programs can be counted on to produce very good teams most years with the rebuilding process only being minor setbacks.

My hope is that UTEP will be in that group starting this year and going forward as Kugler continues to build his program the right way. I'm sure the ODU fans are feeling their program will be there as well and about on the same timeline. Lots of potential at all the other schools as well and it will be interesting to see how this conference looks in a few years. May be a lot better than we all think.
08-23-2016 07:39 AM
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jamrob Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 09:27 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 07:55 PM)El Runner Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 07:34 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?

In the last 16 years La Tech has had only 2 OL drafted, the last being Jordan Mills. Willie Roaf was a La Tech grad and I believe a hall of famer. So La Tech isn't a mill producing OL for the nfl every year. Mills was a sixth rounder and I don't think he even is on a NFL roster at the moment.

So what you're saying is that the poster claiming 4 on the current roster may be optimistic? 04-jawdrop
The poster says all three Seniors are on the board. Not too crazy about where they're ranked right now. We'll have to wait and see but at the least id expect two in camp and two drafted out of their respective classes.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2016 08:14 AM by jamrob.)
08-23-2016 08:11 AM
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KAjunRaider Offline
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Post: #38
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-22-2016 07:55 PM)El Runner Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 07:34 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?

In the last 16 years La Tech has had only 2 OL drafted, the last being Jordan Mills. Willie Roaf was a La Tech grad and I believe a hall of famer. So La Tech isn't a mill producing OL for the nfl every year. Mills was a sixth rounder and I don't think he even is on a NFL roster at the moment.

I remember Tech had a HUGE guy about 6-10 playing line around 1999 or so.

ULM had a true frosh back in the day that was 430 pounds.
08-23-2016 09:30 AM
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ODU AGGIE Offline
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Post: #39
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
(08-23-2016 06:26 AM)jamrob Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 07:34 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-22-2016 04:15 PM)jamrob Wrote:  Wait until you see TECH'S O Line: We're not "massive" but we are a big, tough, athletic 6-4 3/4 314 average. LT a four year starter will get drafted, LG will be a first rounder 6-5 330, RG will get drafted, and RT should be a first day draftee. Center is 6-4 315 and a good college ball player. RT back-up is a big, athletic 6-8 320.

So you have 4 offensive linemen that will be drafted into the NFL? How many offensive linemen have you have drafted in your history?

Two Seniors only but they rank no.3 and no.4 talent wise. It is an unusually talented line for us. We ususlly get one or two in camp, but theres almost always a starter in the league. Brown and Wixon are the Seniors. Dugas the sophomore, a very athletic 6-5 330 was a freshman All American last season. Outlaw the junior, 6-6 305 was the no. 24 OG nationally out of high school.

It is a sign of an established program when you can get both O Line and D Line drafted and we have been trending up in that regard.

Here is what I could find on nfldraftscout.com, which has one offensive tackle and three offensive guards ranked. The highest ranked is Darrell Brown, a senior OG ranked at number 36.

2017
36 Darrell Brown OG (looks like he will be playing LT*)
93 Kirby Wixson OG

2019
53 Shane Carpenter OT (Outlaw listed as No. 2 behind Carpenter*)
64 OShea Dugas OG

So yeah, I think in a normal, homer sort of way, he did a little exaggerating, but there does appear to be some relatively well thought of O-linemen hitting the field for the Dogs this year.

* http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-dep...tech/90889
08-23-2016 09:57 AM
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WWDog Offline
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Post: #40
RE: UTEP will have a massive offensive line
I think I remember reading that Holtz said that UTEP would be vastly improved this year. I think they have been physical in the last few years and if they have the depth, they could be on the rise.

TECH's lines and particularly the O line are going to be very good this year. If they end up in the NFL is yet to be determined and there is a lot of football to be played before the draft. We have been trending up on players to the NFL and it wouldn't surprise me if at least a few got picked.
08-24-2016 12:18 AM
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