... Means UC and BYU will be gone. And one team will be added to the AAC. I feel like Toledo being in a city gives us a chance. We have great stadiums and good football, mens, and womens basketball programs. But UC going takes away a rivalry potential which could have been a reason to accept Toledo.

We know college football is eliminating the bottom conferences from being relevant. The AAC is probably the only way to stay in the hunt. I like the MAC, our rivalries and the staying power it has had through the allignment... BUT I would like the money and bigger stage for our football team.

Why is ODU and Tulane being taked about before us? We have Detroit close by. A GREAT tradition. We reside in a city. Have room to expand etc. Buffalo makes sense for the AAC too if they could get their football program up and build attendance.

why. Where is the win. Not enough money to make it worth extra travel costs.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

(07-23-2016 07:06 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  why. Where is the win. Not enough money to make it worth extra travel costs.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

There is plenty of money for travel. Plus I (like most of us) am tired of EMU, Ball St., Kent, Akron, and really every school in the MAC that really doesn't care any more. We don't make any money on conference games except BG and possibly NIU.

If we keep on the same path and stay with the MAC we will probably end up in D1-AA with the rest of the conference. Then no one will give a crap.

(07-23-2016 08:24 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 07:06 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  why. Where is the win. Not enough money to make it worth extra travel costs.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

There is plenty of money for travel. Plus I (like most of us) am tired of EMU, Ball St., Kent, Akron, and really every school in the MAC that really doesn't care any more. We don't make any money on conference games except BG and possibly NIU.

If we keep on the same path and stay with the MAC we will probably end up in D1-AA with the rest of the conference. Then no one will give a crap.

The only reason the MAC, and others, are still DI is because the P5 schools want to play "DI" schools they can beat. At some point they will only play each other and make a new division.

well, first of all the Big 12 has only announced that they are looking at expansion. who they would add is totally unclear. BYU and Cincy were slightly preferred in a poll of league football coaches. They may make the most sense in terms of major programs, budget, markets, but central florida, memphis, houston, boise and few other schools will make a pitch and all represent big markets with Boise emerging as one of the fastest growing and more popular rocky mountain cities and Houston representing a huge market and hot football program with good bball history.

i don't see toledo going anywhere. While I could see the benefit of the MAC shedding a few teams and merging in the closer CUSA schools. I don't see how playing in a likely further watered down Big East conference (it's remnants and CUSA additions making up the AAC) is a good fit. Travel is expensive, exhausting and an era of environmental collapse and (hopefully) fossil fuel reduction should be limited. i mean if we had a good passenger train system and the teams could stretch out, move around and cover distances faster than bussing across the country in rough winters and hotter summers/falls that might work. We don't have that. MAC teams can't afford private planes for cross country teams and track meets. How do you travel to orlando, greeneville, NC, Connecticut, Philly, New Orleans for every sport all the time? how much school do the athletes miss?

Football may be the factor that drives conferences to expand....but once that decision is made....then the MBB program also becomes a important criterion in the selection process. NCAA tournament dollars can add up in a hurry for successful basketball programs such Cincy or Memphis----that is how Cincy and Louisville got the nod for the Big East and that is how Louisville got the nod for the ACC

IMO MBB killed any chance Toledo may have had to move up (if in fact, they ever had a chance) back when football attendance was respectable and before the conference reorganization craze (as always driven by the TV $$$) played out.

If the Big XII gets back to 12, that should be the end of P5 re-alignment for a while which means the end of raids on the G5, which in turn means Toledo is not going anywhere (as if they were anyway) unless maybe there is a real shake up and complete reorganization at the G5 conference level.

Right now I would be more than happy just to see UT win a MACC in FB once in awhile or actually get a trip to the NCAA in MBB & WBB.....it has been a while now.

I sent President Gaber an email earlier in the week encouraging her to explore membership in the AAC.
IMO the only chance we stay in Division 1 and anywhere close to relevant is to move up to the AAC. EMU, Akron, Kent, & Ball St. are doomed to either move down to FCS or quit football all together. Buffalo, BG and Miami are questionable.Toledo, No. Ill. and maybe Ohio have an opportunity, but only if we make an effort to move up.
In Toledo we always seem to say "we can't". Look at Cincy, or Louisville. 20 years ago they were equivalent to Toledo. Now??
It's time we say "yes we can"!

(07-24-2016 08:35 AM)magoo Wrote:  I sent President Gaber an email earlier in the week encouraging her to explore membership in the AAC.
IMO the only chance we stay in Division 1 and anywhere close to relevant is to move up to the AAC. EMU, Akron, Kent, & Ball St. are doomed to either move down to FCS or quit football all together. Buffalo, BG and Miami are questionable.Toledo, No. Ill. and maybe Ohio have an opportunity, but only if we make an effort to move up.
In Toledo we always seem to say "we can't". Look at Cincy, or Louisville. 20 years ago they were equivalent to Toledo. Now??
It's time we say "yes we can"!

Please. Cincinnati football has NEVER been equivalent to Toledo.

I do not believe home games with the likes of Western Kentucky and Tulane will draw any better than EMU or Kent or Akron. Television revenue will be flat. Travel costs increase. Flying is a lot more expensive than bus travel. Right now most BB games are bus trips. Moving to AAC will change that significantly to almost all air travel

And don't forget minor / Olympic sports will have same travel demands. Since we don't have enough donors to finish our football stadium where are the donors coming from to pay for these extra travel costs

See my other post about us all buying lottery tickets for powerball. Only way it works. Or would you prefer that an already inflated general fee be increased to cover these costs. Been looking at colleges for my 16 yo. Excluding out of state fees, tuition room and board at Purdue is CHEAPER than Toledo

We need to continue to grow our donor base. Grow our endowment. Grow fan base. Then the conferences will come to us


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(07-24-2016 08:35 AM)magoo Wrote:  I sent President Gaber an email earlier in the week encouraging her to explore membership in the AAC.
IMO the only chance we stay in Division 1 and anywhere close to relevant is to move up to the AAC. EMU, Akron, Kent, & Ball St. are doomed to either move down to FCS or quit football all together. Buffalo, BG and Miami are questionable.Toledo, No. Ill. and maybe Ohio have an opportunity, but only if we make an effort to move up.
In Toledo we always seem to say "we can't". Look at Cincy, or Louisville. 20 years ago they were equivalent to Toledo. Now??
It's time we say "yes we can"!

Nothing wrong with "making an effort" as long as it is done quietly behind the scenes thus avoiding the embarrassment of a public rejection.

Please do look at Cincy and Louisville, but don't make the mistake of looking at just football, instead look at their NCAA tourney history and their MBB attendances prior to their invitation to move up and then compare that to UT's MBB NCAA history during this same period and you will better understand my pessimism about moving to "a better" conference anytime soon. Also look at Tulsa and ODU MBB and you will more readily see why they are being talked about as expansion candidates and UT is not.

FB was not the ticket "to a better life" for Cincy and Louisville, it was MBB..... and that is the exact same reason UT was not on anyone's expansion radar screen as a serious candidate. UT was putting a better football product on the field and in the stands than Cincy was around Y2K; however, Cincy was raking in big time NCAA Tournament $$$ on a yearly basis during that period while UT sat at home year after year after year----for over 20 years then, over 35 years now and that is a SERIOUS problem if you trying to upgrade your conference affiliation.

UT fans think football and of course wonder how schools like Tulsa or ODU seem to be more attractive to conferences than Toledo does. Well you are looking at the wrong thing----try MBB instead, and ask yourself "How many NCAA tournaments have Tulsa and ODU been to since 1980 (the Rockets last appearance)"

and the answer for number of tournaments in which they were invited is:

ODU----10 times

Tulsa-- 14 times

PS---Since 1980 Louisville has played in over EIGHTY (80) NCAA tourney games and Cincy has played in around FORTY (40). Of course this includes both their play that got them to a better conference as well as what they did once they were there.

Given that every NCAA tourney game played is currently worth about $1.5 million to each participating team's conference paid out over 6 years, you can begin to better understand why teams like ODU and Tulsa have more appeal than UT---if it were only about football, UT would be in a lot better shape than it is with respect to "new conference" aspirations.

(07-24-2016 09:37 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  I do not believe home games with the likes of Western Kentucky and Tulane will draw any better than EMU or Kent or Akron. Television revenue will be flat. Travel costs increase. Flying is a lot more expensive than bus travel. Right now most BB games are bus trips. Moving to AAC will change that significantly to almost all air travel

And don't forget minor / Olympic sports will have same travel demands. Since we don't have enough donors to finish our football stadium where are the donors coming from to pay for these extra travel costs

See my other post about us all buying lottery tickets for powerball. Only way it works. Or would you prefer that an already inflated general fee be increased to cover these costs. Been looking at colleges for my 16 yo. Excluding out of state fees, tuition room and board at Purdue is CHEAPER than Toledo

We need to continue to grow our donor base. Grow our endowment. Grow fan base. Then the conferences will come to us


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The State of Ohio has systematically reduced the amount of money that it gives to higher education.

(07-24-2016 09:53 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 09:37 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  Purdue is CHEAPER than Toledo

The State of Ohio has systematically reduced the amount of money that it gives to higher education.

When I was applying to colleges back in 1979, it would've been cheaper for me to attend an Indiana public university as an out-of-state student than to attend an Ohio public university in-state.

As I see it, the larger schools have been trying for a long time to shrink the pie whether it be capacity/attendance requirements, academic ratings, etc.... Conference expansion is in that same vein. Ultimately I see the elimination of G-5, 1AA, FCS, etc. with that becoming the new div. 2 and div 2 becoming div3 and so on. I could see the NCAA getting rid of the NIT and replacing it with a division 2 basketball tournament. For me the question is at which division should Toledo compete?

The question will be if changing the name to DII, while keeping the conference names in tact will lose supporters and viewership on TV?

There is still a large enough talent pool that the good players in the current G5 will still have to go to G5 or "DII" schools... Simply too many fast and strong athletes to all flock to the 50 some P5 schools. Also those schools have too many academic requirements to get the high school strugglers with 5 star talent. They can try, but it won't happen. NDSU is better than P5 schools and they're supposed to be getting the 129x80th best players.

(07-24-2016 09:44 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The question will be if changing the name to DII, while keeping the conference names in tact will lose supporters and viewership on TV?

There is still a large enough talent pool that the good players in the current G5 will still have to go to G5 or "DII" schools... Simply too many fast and strong athletes to all flock to the 50 some P5 schools. Also those schools have too many academic requirements to get the high school strugglers with 5 star talent. They can try, but it won't happen. NDSU is better than P5 schools and they're supposed to be getting the 129x80th best players.

NDSU against P-5/G-5 Schools since 2004:
2004-
2005-
2006 NDSU 29 Ball State(5-7) 24
2006 Minnesota(6-7) 10 NDSU 9
2007 NDSU 44 CMU(8-6) 14
2007 NDSU 27 Minnesota(1-10) 21
2008 Wyoming(4-8) 16 NDSU 13
2009 Iowa State(7-6) 34 NDSU 17
2010 NDSU 6 Kansas(3-9) 3
2011 NDSU 37 Minnesota(3-9) 24
2012 NDSU 22 Colorado State(8-6) 7
2013 NDSU 24 Kansas State(11-2) 21
2014 NDSU 38 Iowa State(2-10) 14
2015-

NDSU's Athletic Budget is approximately $20 million.

Also the most current MAC Athletic Expenses I could come up with:
Akron $34,070,009
EMU $33,956,234
WMU $33,255,611
Miami $32,756,388
Buffalo $31,909,540
Toledo $29,902,989
CMU $28,491,818
NIU $27,276,554
Ohio U $27,110,443
Kent St $26,291,930
Ball St $25,495,662
BGSU $21,823,670

What's the old adage: "you are who you associate with........."

Most of the MAC schools are rated # 90 to #100 all the way down to #128.....

Even when Toledo is ranked in the Top 25 many around the country see it as a #100 type football program when it isn't.....

You are who you associate with.

(07-25-2016 02:24 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 09:44 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The question will be if changing the name to DII, while keeping the conference names in tact will lose supporters and viewership on TV?

There is still a large enough talent pool that the good players in the current G5 will still have to go to G5 or "DII" schools... Simply too many fast and strong athletes to all flock to the 50 some P5 schools. Also those schools have too many academic requirements to get the high school strugglers with 5 star talent. They can try, but it won't happen. NDSU is better than P5 schools and they're supposed to be getting the 129x80th best players.

NDSU against P-5/G-5 Schools since 2004:
2004-
2005-
2006 NDSU 29 Ball State(5-7) 24
2006 Minnesota(6-7) 10 NDSU 9
2007 NDSU 44 CMU(8-6) 14
2007 NDSU 27 Minnesota(1-10) 21
2008 Wyoming(4-8) 16 NDSU 13
2009 Iowa State(7-6) 34 NDSU 17
2010 NDSU 6 Kansas(3-9) 3
2011 NDSU 37 Minnesota(3-9) 24
2012 NDSU 22 Colorado State(8-6) 7
2013 NDSU 24 Kansas State(11-2) 21
2014 NDSU 38 Iowa State(2-10) 14
2015-

NDSU's Athletic Budget is approximately $20 million.

Also the most current MAC Athletic Expenses I could come up with:
Akron $34,070,009
EMU $33,956,234
WMU $33,255,611
Miami $32,756,388
Buffalo $31,909,540
Toledo $29,902,989
CMU $28,491,818
NIU $27,276,554
Ohio U $27,110,443
Kent St $26,291,930
Ball St $25,495,662
BGSU $21,823,670

Why is Toledo's athletic budget $8M higher than BG's? That is around 37% higher. Are we spending a lot more on football? Would seem that way - but we should also be bringing in more from football as well and we have no men's hockey which would seem to be costly to have.

(07-24-2016 08:43 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:35 AM)magoo Wrote:  I sent President Gaber an email earlier in the week encouraging her to explore membership in the AAC.
IMO the only chance we stay in Division 1 and anywhere close to relevant is to move up to the AAC. EMU, Akron, Kent, & Ball St. are doomed to either move down to FCS or quit football all together. Buffalo, BG and Miami are questionable.Toledo, No. Ill. and maybe Ohio have an opportunity, but only if we make an effort to move up.
In Toledo we always seem to say "we can't". Look at Cincy, or Louisville. 20 years ago they were equivalent to Toledo. Now??
It's time we say "yes we can"!

Please. Cincinnati football has NEVER been equivalent to Toledo.

Here is the 1990 cinci schedule and results.. by the way they were an independant
Sep 2, 1990 Sun Cincinnati Bowling Green State MAC L 20 34 0 1 0 L 1 Cincinnati, OH
2 Sep 8, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ Central Michigan MAC L 0 34 0 2 0 L 2
3 Sep 15, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ Iowa Big Ten L 10 63 0 3 0 L 3
4 Sep 22, 1990 Sat Cincinnati Miami (OH) MAC L 12 16 0 4 0 L 4 Cincinnati, OH
5 Sep 29, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ Kent State MAC W 27 24 1 4 0 W 1
6 Oct 13, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ West Virginia Ind L 20 28 1 5 0 L 1
7 Oct 20, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ East Carolina Ind L 32 56 1 6 0 L 2
8 Oct 27, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ Tulane Ind L 7 49 1 7 0 L 3
9 Nov 3, 1990 Sat Cincinnati (25) Louisville Ind L 16 41 1 8 0 L 4 Cincinnati, OH
10 Nov 10, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ (12) Florida State Ind L 21 70 1 9 0 L 5
11 Nov 17, 1990 Sat Cincinnati @ Alabama

Oh... And dont expect that return trip from BYU. With a 9 game conference shedule, they'll be cutting out Toledo, UMass, Fresno, Hawaii, etc.

(07-25-2016 02:21 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Oh... And dont expect that return trip from BYU. With a 9 game conference shedule, they'll be cutting out Toledo, UMass, Fresno, Hawaii, etc.

Little doubt there's a lot of smoke and mirrors to fire up the mid-major fans but with good chance the major player will either drop the game or buy it out as game time approaches. I'll believe the Miami game when I see the camo get off the bus but not sooner.