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For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
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DavidSt Offline
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For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
http://www.military.com/education/2016/0...-bill.html

Corinthian Colleges that had Everest went out of business by the feds.

Devry
University of Phoenix
Ashford University
ITT Tech
Colorado Tech
Briarcliffe, NY.
Ameritech
Le Cordon Bleu
Walden
Remington
Wellspring

Are also targets.

St. Cathrine's Colleges of the NAIA got hit last year, and they are closing this month. They were a private 4 year college.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/data-...school/hcm
There is an XSL list of schools in trouble. They listed well known FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA schools issues with financial aid.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/dept...-findings/

Eastern Oklahoma State is listed, but they are public, non-profit.

If they lose out to the government? GCU might be toast in D1 for good. There is a lot of scrutiny over for profit schools which includes Trump University, Corinthian Colleges and others.
06-02-2016 06:46 AM
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krup Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?
06-02-2016 07:13 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
The issue is the government want to stop all the for-profit schools for good. I think that is why Grand Canyon U. wanted to go back to non-profit. What does GCU have in common with the others above? They are traded on the stock market like U, of Phoenix and others. So far only Grand Canyon U. and both AMA-New York and AMA-Miami are not being investigated yet. I would not think ITT nor Devry would get investigated since they have been around for years.
06-02-2016 07:30 AM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
Trump University was never a school. It wasn't even accredited or marketed like they were giving out degrees. I don't think it should be mentioned in your post since it really was more of a training program with a deceptive name that never rx'ed federal funding.

(06-02-2016 06:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.military.com/education/2016/0...-bill.html

Corinthian Colleges that had Everest went out of business by the feds.

Devry
University of Phoenix
Ashford University
ITT Tech
Colorado Tech
Briarcliffe, NY.
Ameritech
Le Cordon Bleu
Walden
Remington
Wellspring

Are also targets.

St. Cathrine's Colleges of the NAIA got hit last year, and they are closing this month. They were a private 4 year college.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/data-...school/hcm
There is an XSL list of schools in trouble. They listed well known FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA schools issues with financial aid.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/dept...-findings/

Eastern Oklahoma State is listed, but they are public, non-profit.

If they lose out to the government? GCU might be toast in D1 for good. There is a lot of scrutiny over for profit schools which includes Trump University, Corinthian Colleges and others.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2016 07:58 AM by Curtisc83.)
06-02-2016 07:48 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
krup,

you have an excellent point. Perhaps it should be the case that in order for a particular degree-program to enroll students that have federal financial aid, they must show that a minimum X% of graduates have jobs that require four-year degrees.


Of course, if it starts going that way ... then I imagine that colleges will just work with industry to make almost all non-retail/service/trade jobs require four-year degrees.
06-02-2016 08:34 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 08:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  krup,

you have an excellent point. Perhaps it should be the case that in order for a particular degree-program to enroll students that have federal financial aid, they must show that a minimum X% of graduates have jobs that require four-year degrees.


Of course, if it starts going that way ... then I imagine that colleges will just work with industry to make almost all non-retail/service/trade jobs require four-year degrees.

With a $15 min wage, that's exactly what will happen.
06-02-2016 08:44 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 07:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The issue is the government want to stop all the for-profit schools for good. I think that is why Grand Canyon U. wanted to go back to non-profit. What does GCU have in common with the others above? They are traded on the stock market like U, of Phoenix and others. So far only Grand Canyon U. and both AMA-New York and AMA-Miami are not being investigated yet. I would not think ITT nor Devry would get investigated since they have been around for years.

I suspect that GCU's decision had more to do with changes to non-discrimination laws in Arizona. For profit institutions cannot discriminate against non-Christians and others as easily as non-profit ones.

So they made created a non-profit that covers 98% of employment (which will probably have a Title IX 'license to discriminate' shortly, if they don't already have one). And then appeared to create a for profit consulting firm that the 'non-profit' must contract with to handle all of the decision making (and to funnel all the money to). Basically the worst of both worlds. They're still probably funneling all the cash up to the consulting firm and probably will reinstate their discriminatory practices.

---

But, for all the significant issues with GCU, they're not ITT or DeVry. The degrees granted are real ones at GCU. But of course so are some of those granted by Univ of Phoenix. My guess is that the reason GCU hasn't been investigated is that the default/deferral rate on their student loans isn't anywhere near as bad as with other private colleges. I don't think the government wants to get rid of for profits so much as to stop for profit colleges with astronomically high default/deferral rates on student loans.
06-02-2016 09:46 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
GCU, like all the others on the list, will certainly take your $50k a year (or whatever ridiculous amount it is) and give you a piece of paper.

Perhaps you can even use that piece of paper to land a job. Not sure about that, though.
06-02-2016 10:09 AM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 07:13 AM)krup Wrote:  I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?

Government can do whatever they want and you will like it. Just for asking that question you're going under an IRS audit.
06-02-2016 11:39 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Ca...
(06-02-2016 07:13 AM)krup Wrote:  I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?

I'm with you. If this is under the guise of consumer protection then it's not just for profit colleges that need to be investigated for fraud.
06-02-2016 12:04 PM
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CenterSquarEd Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 09:46 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  But, for all the significant issues with GCU, they're not ITT or DeVry. The degrees granted are real ones at GCU. But of course so are some of those granted by Univ of Phoenix. My guess is that the reason GCU hasn't been investigated is that the default/deferral rate on their student loans isn't anywhere near as bad as with other private colleges. I don't think the government wants to get rid of for profits so much as to stop for profit colleges with astronomically high default/deferral rates on student loans.

Maybe it depends on the branch and the program, but I wouldn't necessarily bash the ITT Techs of the world. I've hired their graduates before and would do so again. Let's say you're looking for an IT pro who knows how to diagnose some sort of policy issue in a Microsoft environment, you might actually be better off with someone who recently got an associate's degree in "network systems administration" than with a computer science grad who spent their last four years studying a bunch of different types of programming and math. So maybe your new hire isn't the sort of critical thinker who's going to become your boss someday, but there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes your budget doesn't allow you to hire all the liberal arts types.
06-02-2016 12:23 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 12:04 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(06-02-2016 07:13 AM)krup Wrote:  I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?

I'm with you. If this is under the guise of consumer protection then it's not just for profit colleges that need to be investigated for fraud.


They did went after St. Catherine of Kentucky. They wound up closing their doors. A lot of for profits are under investigation. On the excel sheet, they listed North Alabama, Alabama State, West Alabama, Southern Illinois and some others. It is a list that schools get on as HMC 1 which is more of a warning, and HMC 2 which the schools are put on that receives no grant. The for-profit schools are on the HMC 2 same as with St. Catherine.
D2 St. Martin's in Washington is on the list as so of many other NAIA, D1, D2 and D3 schools.
06-02-2016 05:34 PM
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 07:13 AM)krup Wrote:  I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?

Like Rutgers?
06-02-2016 08:52 PM
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 09:46 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I don't think the government wants to get rid of for profits so much as to stop for profit colleges with astronomically high default/deferral rates on student loans.

This. The #1 issue here is colleges enrolling vast numbers of students online with a very large percentage of those paying high tuition with student loans and then never getting a degree and defaulting on the loans.

The government ought to make federally guaranteed loans available only at colleges that have a relatively high rate of graduation within 6 years and a low rate of students defaulting on loans. If for profit colleges then have to offer their students only financing backed by banks and not the government, so much the better.

Having said that... this is policy or politics, it's a non-sports discussion that belongs in The Sports Bar or in The Spin Room. I'll send this thread to The Sports Bar shortly unless people weigh in quickly and say they'd prefer this in The Spin Room.
06-02-2016 09:30 PM
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 07:13 AM)krup Wrote:  I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?
I've taught at both, and the for profits are the worst abusers of the Federal funding. Many of them are in essence founded in order to convert student's student loan eligibility into profit for shareholders.

It would certainly be a good thing to expand the investigation into the rampant administration cost inflation (which is the source of the not for profit's tuition inflation) at not for profits, but if you are going to start somewhere, the for profits are the clear place to start.
06-02-2016 11:21 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
For Profit colleges should not have access to a cent of federal tuition assistance money.

That said, I'm sure -- sadly -- that For Profit's will be all the more glad to partner with a For Profit bank to provide private loans for students to pay tuition.

No different than payday loans, really. Garbage.
06-03-2016 07:01 AM
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
All I can say is it's about time. Those schools are garbage. I personally have yet to meet anybody that has gone to these schools and has graduated.
I hope they add more to the list. (ECPI being one that a lot of people in Hampton Roads hate and they pray on the Military)

(06-02-2016 07:13 AM)krup Wrote:  I am not defending the fraud that goes on in these for profit schools, and they should be punished where they break the law. But, how exactly do non-profit colleges skate for giving out an skyrocketing number of degrees, at tuition rates that increase far beyond the rate of inflation, in majors that have little to no possibility of turning into a job that relates to the degree?

I think most of the public non-profit schools costs are going up faster than the rate of inflation if I recall correctly.
Also plenty of public schools giving out degrees that are junk as well.
06-04-2016 09:14 PM
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RE: For Profit Schools Being Investigated By The Feds, Not Good News For Grand Canyon U.
(06-02-2016 06:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.military.com/education/2016/0...-bill.html

Corinthian Colleges that had Everest went out of business by the feds.

Devry
University of Phoenix
Ashford University
ITT Tech
Colorado Tech
Briarcliffe, NY.
Ameritech
Le Cordon Bleu
Walden
Remington
Wellspring

Are also targets.

St. Cathrine's Colleges of the NAIA got hit last year, and they are closing this month. They were a private 4 year college.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/data-...school/hcm
There is an XSL list of schools in trouble. They listed well known FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA schools issues with financial aid.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/dept...-findings/

Eastern Oklahoma State is listed, but they are public, non-profit.

If they lose out to the government? GCU might be toast in D1 for good. There is a lot of scrutiny over for profit schools which includes Trump University, Corinthian Colleges and others.

It's been a while since I checked in here, but I'll tie up some loose ends in regards to NAIA schools listed here. I know nothing about the merits of the investigations, I'll stick to athletics.

Ashford announced early in the year that they would be shutting down their physical campus and thus their athletics program. They will be online only. I have no idea if this is related to any investigation.
http://victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/new...campus.htm

As mentioned elsewhere, St Catharine is an older private non-profit school. In their closing announcement, they mentioned that the DOE admitted that they were in the wrong for withholding student aid, yet wouldn't make amends. Enrollment dropped during this period and they couldn't recover.
http://victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/new...f-july.htm

Making lemonade out of lemons, nearby NAIA Midway College made a deal within days to absorb the St Cat Men's basketball, soccer and baseball programs, including coaches and honoring scholarships. Midway is a women's college that announced earlier this year that they would go coed, with eventual expansion to men's sports. With St Cat's "turn key" programs ready to go, they accelerated the schedule and will be competing come August. They are also recruiting female athletes orphaned from St Cat. Midway is about 3 times the size of St Cat, and will be growing more with male enrollment.
http://victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/new...s-fall.htm

Similarly, NCAA D2 Bellarmine has announced that they will absorb St Cat's wrestling program.
http://www.whas11.com/sports/bellarmine-.../243859023
06-17-2016 01:15 PM
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