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CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-28-2016 10:57 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  Thosee numbers are only the 2 year portion. The bein deal is for 4 not 3 and raises it. Plus we are still getting distrubutions from the exit fees and the basketball credits that memphis left behind.

It is not what we were getting before the last batch of schools left but not as bad as all these writers are reporting.

Those exit feels are about to be gone though, same with Memphis Basketball units.
05-28-2016 11:48 PM
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APPdiesel Offline
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Post: #22
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
TV going away for G5 programs might not be such an awful thing. The silver lining is schools and conferences regain control over start times, refocus on improving the in-stadium experience, and attendance returns. Of course that's an extreme "what if".

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05-28-2016 11:55 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #23
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
In the end this is what will happen....

CUSA will be playing 90% (guess est) on a Saturday. There's not one fan on this board of a SBC school that wouldn't give up a nu...pinky, to play all their football games at a decent kickoff time on a Saturday afternoon or evening. As a fan that will be more important than the across the board Olympic sports that will bite the bullet for any money lost on the CUSA TV contract...

football will not take the hit
basketball will not take the hit..at least not for the "basketball schools" in CUSA

One way to look at this deal is...CUSA put more of a value on Saturday football than the dollars playing on a Tuesday/Wednesday would have brought in.

As a fan...less TV money vs great Saturday football is a no brainer. Saturday afternoon/evening football wins out everytime.

So lets do the math and we will see what those 5 to 6 Saturday afternoon games adds more to the bottom line. A easy way to do that is to say a 5,000 difference in attendance for a Wednesday night vs a Saturday afternoon . That would be $100,000 a game at $20 a ticket. I think we can add in $5 a person for one drink on average ....$25,000 with $10,000 of that going to the school. So now we are up to $110,000 with just a 5,000 increase in fans. Work that out for 2 week night games out of the 6 and you now made up $220,000

Still doesn't make up for all of it but to us fans...WE DON'T REALLY CARE. All we want is what's best for us and Saturday football . Do we really care Track and Field or soccer or volleyball or softball or baseball gets their budgets cut to make up the difference?

We can look at CUSA's TV contract and how poor it is till the cows come but it won't change the fact you can take away a million dollars from the numbers in this spreadsheet (taken from what each school reported) and those CUSA schools (for the most part) are still bringing in millions more. These are 2015 numbers so even if espn or fox doesn't want to pay....

someone is seeing a value in CUSA

The numbers under rights are from 2015 and the last numbers are what each school brought in the year before changing conferences.

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(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 12:52 AM by WKUYG.)
05-29-2016 12:51 AM
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Post: #24
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-28-2016 11:55 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  TV going away for G5 programs might not be such an awful thing. The silver lining is schools and conferences regain control over start times, refocus on improving the in-stadium experience, and attendance returns. Of course that's an extreme "what if".

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I remember that MWC ditched ESPN because they couldn't get them Saturday telecasts and Utah and BYU and the front range schools said the weeknight games were killing them at the gate.
That's the beauty of streaming, unlimited number of teams can all be on at the same time.
05-29-2016 12:51 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #25
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 12:51 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  One way to look at this deal is...CUSA put more of a value on Saturday football than the dollars playing on a Tuesday/Wednesday would have brought in.

CUSA didn't have a say in the deal. They took what they could get. No amount of spinning will change that.
05-29-2016 07:51 AM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
For someone that doesn't care you did a lot of research and typing.

Programs jumped from the SBC for two reasons - to increase revenue (TV) and play "higher" caliber programs. We can argue how much higher your programs are but the former reason is now moot. Posting a novelette isn't going to change that, but I hope it makes you feel better.
05-29-2016 08:01 AM
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Bobcat87 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-28-2016 11:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 10:57 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  Thosee numbers are only the 2 year portion. The bein deal is for 4 not 3 and raises it. Plus we are still getting distrubutions from the exit fees and the basketball credits that memphis left behind.

It is not what we were getting before the last batch of schools left but not as bad as all these writers are reporting.

Love to see a link to that effect.

If Al Jazeera Sports is picking third behind ESPN and CBS it is unlikely they are paying a premium price and they are in roughly the same number of homes as CBS Sports even if there no overlap, beIN and CBSSN combined are in fewer homes than ESPN or ESPN2 or FS1. By all accounts ASN the fourth pick wasn't even paying for third pick in the old deal.

Everyone is missing the REAL story here.
No it's not cord-cutting (an overblown meme at least right now)
No it's not about it being a market correction (it is a correction adjusting for the change in line-up to a degree but that's not the significant story).

What makes this truly interesting is the two year deal. Anything under 8 years is cause for raised eyebrows.

Signing a two year deal signals some serious internal problems.
It could be just covering up ears yelling lalalala to not hear the truth hoping that it all gets better in 24 months (really TWELVE months because that's when negotiations get down and dirty).

The problem with that is that this deal is actually designed to minimize revenue.

Now waiting might be a gamble to be played, intentionally taking low dollars today in the hopes of making it up in the next deal.

G5 value comes from ratings and willingness to play in non-standard times and on non-standard dates. On the ratings front, FS1 CUSA ratings were terrible, kicking the can down the road to get some games on ESPN might actually produce greater revenue in two years by changing the baseline on ratings.

But it should also be observed that CUSA exit is tied to TV revenue. That was a post-CUSA 1.0 move tying a portion of exit to making the league whole on the TV deal. CUSA has created a window where schools have wider latitude to exit cheaply.

Here's why I believe that cord cutting matters, TV will use it as an excuse to continue "low balling" the smaller conferences . . . . They don't want to pay anymore for programming than they have to. And let's face it, the G5 probably need them more than they ned us.

And yes, the cord cutting has hurt folks like ESPN, which in addition to losing subscribers, now has air talent bailing as well.
05-29-2016 08:30 AM
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baruna falls Offline
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Post: #28
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 12:51 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  In the end this is what will happen....

CUSA will be playing 90% (guess est) on a Saturday. There's not one fan on this board of a SBC school that wouldn't give up a nu...pinky, to play all their football games at a decent kickoff time on a Saturday afternoon or evening. As a fan that will be more important than the across the board Olympic sports that will bite the bullet for any money lost on the CUSA TV contract...

football will not take the hit
basketball will not take the hit..at least not for the "basketball schools" in CUSA

One way to look at this deal is...CUSA put more of a value on Saturday football than the dollars playing on a Tuesday/Wednesday would have brought in.

As a fan...less TV money vs great Saturday football is a no brainer. Saturday afternoon/evening football wins out everytime.

So lets do the math and we will see what those 5 to 6 Saturday afternoon games adds more to the bottom line. A easy way to do that is to say a 5,000 difference in attendance for a Wednesday night vs a Saturday afternoon . That would be $100,000 a game at $20 a ticket. I think we can add in $5 a person for one drink on average ....$25,000 with $10,000 of that going to the school. So now we are up to $110,000 with just a 5,000 increase in fans. Work that out for 2 week night games out of the 6 and you now made up $220,000

Still doesn't make up for all of it but to us fans...WE DON'T REALLY CARE. All we want is what's best for us and Saturday football . Do we really care Track and Field or soccer or volleyball or softball or baseball gets their budgets cut to make up the difference?

We can look at CUSA's TV contract and how poor it is till the cows come but it won't change the fact you can take away a million dollars from the numbers in this spreadsheet (taken from what each school reported) and those CUSA schools (for the most part) are still bringing in millions more. These are 2015 numbers so even if espn or fox doesn't want to pay....

someone is seeing a value in CUSA

The numbers under rights are from 2015 and the last numbers are what each school brought in the year before changing conferences.

[Image: RIGHTS%20MONEY_zpst4hetupr.jpg]
Actually this is what is called a negative market valuation. CUSA has put its best foot forward and the market as devalued the product. There really is no difference now between Sun BELT and Cusa in terms of the market. WKU is no more valuable in CUSA then they were in the Sun Belt.

CUSA has had a significant drop in retail value. Two years from now it will probably be even worse as I am willing get to bet that the Sun BELT passes CUSA 8n terms of football tv rankings and football power rankings.
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 09:57 AM by baruna falls.)
05-29-2016 09:55 AM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
Shhhhhh.... He is working on some heavy duty internal rationalization.

Now it isn't really about money or markets but playing one more Saturday home game in November when the crowd is half the normal size!

I like playing a weeknight or two a year as long as only one is a home game. The eyeballs on a weeknight conference game dwarf those in an obscure channel on a Saturday. It also gives me some free Saturdays in the fall to spend with my family.

We have played more weeknights than a lot of teams the last several years and our budget more than doubled, our season tickets are an all time high and we have added major facility upgrades. It has been terrible.
05-29-2016 10:15 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #30
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 08:01 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  For someone that doesn't care you did a lot of research and typing.

Programs jumped from the SBC for two reasons - to increase revenue (TV) and play "higher" caliber programs. We can argue how much higher your programs are but the former reason is now moot. Posting a novelette isn't going to change that, but I hope it makes you feel better.

As a fan, and you are lying to yourself if say any different, I want 6 Saturday afternoon or evening games. As a fan I let others worry about making the budget work. I help with buying tickets and a donation.

But if we want to just look at the dollars as I said the TV dollars are less, a lot less. But it's still $250,000 to $350,000 more than Western got each year in the SBC. That is a fact. I believe the conference returns around $25k to each SBC school, at least they did in Western's last season, from their 'TV Contract' . Hell ULM reported to their state budget ZERO dollars in TV money. So maybe it's now ZERO.

But still looking at the dollars....you can take away 1 million and those numbers I posted are still a million+ ahead of what each school gets today compared to while they played in the SBC.

But as I said...I'm a FAN. With that I want whats best for me and that's Saturday football. We really don't know if espn would have offered more (no report either way) for playing on Tuesday or Wednesday. But I do know it's usually a 25% increase, if not more, in attendance on a Saturday.

Oh, BTW, what makes me feel better is being RANKED in the top 25, winning 12 games and watching my team play. I was there in person for all 14 games but if I wasn't I could have turned on my TV...TV, and watched all 14 games.

So what makes you feel better? And as far as the research or typing...most people on this board knows I do my research and hell what can I say...some people can get their point across in a few words. I'm long winded.
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 10:24 AM by WKUYG.)
05-29-2016 10:22 AM
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bluephi1914 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
Sorry, but according to a recent article published by our beat writer, ULM is budgeting for $150k in television money for the 2016-2017 year.
05-29-2016 10:29 AM
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Post: #32
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 08:30 AM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 11:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 10:57 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  Thosee numbers are only the 2 year portion. The bein deal is for 4 not 3 and raises it. Plus we are still getting distrubutions from the exit fees and the basketball credits that memphis left behind.

It is not what we were getting before the last batch of schools left but not as bad as all these writers are reporting.

Love to see a link to that effect.

If Al Jazeera Sports is picking third behind ESPN and CBS it is unlikely they are paying a premium price and they are in roughly the same number of homes as CBS Sports even if there no overlap, beIN and CBSSN combined are in fewer homes than ESPN or ESPN2 or FS1. By all accounts ASN the fourth pick wasn't even paying for third pick in the old deal.

Everyone is missing the REAL story here.
No it's not cord-cutting (an overblown meme at least right now)
No it's not about it being a market correction (it is a correction adjusting for the change in line-up to a degree but that's not the significant story).

What makes this truly interesting is the two year deal. Anything under 8 years is cause for raised eyebrows.

Signing a two year deal signals some serious internal problems.
It could be just covering up ears yelling lalalala to not hear the truth hoping that it all gets better in 24 months (really TWELVE months because that's when negotiations get down and dirty).

The problem with that is that this deal is actually designed to minimize revenue.

Now waiting might be a gamble to be played, intentionally taking low dollars today in the hopes of making it up in the next deal.

G5 value comes from ratings and willingness to play in non-standard times and on non-standard dates. On the ratings front, FS1 CUSA ratings were terrible, kicking the can down the road to get some games on ESPN might actually produce greater revenue in two years by changing the baseline on ratings.

But it should also be observed that CUSA exit is tied to TV revenue. That was a post-CUSA 1.0 move tying a portion of exit to making the league whole on the TV deal. CUSA has created a window where schools have wider latitude to exit cheaply.

Here's why I believe that cord cutting matters, TV will use it as an excuse to continue "low balling" the smaller conferences . . . . They don't want to pay anymore for programming than they have to. And let's face it, the G5 probably need them more than they ned us.

And yes, the cord cutting has hurt folks like ESPN, which in addition to losing subscribers, now has air talent bailing as well.

true many folks including me are looking at ways to cut spending on non necessities like cable tv and home phone etc. when I scroll around the guide for something to watch, the selection is often not very attractive. I live in the dfw area and when espn is showing millsaps vs quachita baptist lacrosse or binghampton vs norwalk equestrian competition I wonder if even one person in the metroplex has tuned in. with the dozens of college sports programs in the state from which they could choose activities to broadcast I have to wonder who's in charge there.
05-29-2016 10:31 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #33
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 10:29 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Sorry, but according to a recent article published by our beat writer, ULM is budgeting for $150k in television money for the 2016-2017 year.

According to the numbers you reported to your state you had ZERO dollars in TV revenue for 2015. Below are the state numbers for LA G5 schools...FoUTASportscaster reported or linked to.

Media rights
ULM: 0
ULL: 43,070
LTU: 1,010,717

When Western was in the SBC just about all of the TV money went for conference expenses.
05-29-2016 10:43 AM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
Only one person is lying to themselves in this thread. sorry you didn't get what you thought you were with your move.

Congrats on your season last year, what makes me happy is comparing our second year in the FBS to WKUs.
05-29-2016 10:47 AM
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RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
So basically, this disproves anybody's theory that media market matters
05-29-2016 10:52 AM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
I have watched pretty much every game in person or on TV the last few years. You lose virtually nothing playing one home game on a weeknight and you gain a ton of exposure. We have even had recruits note that seeing us play on ESPN weeknights influenced their decision to come to ASU.

I would like to see easier non-conference scheduling as that appears to be the best path to an Access slot but playing games on a major network when the more established conferences are not playing is fantastic.

Also, that TV money is before production costs come out.
05-29-2016 10:56 AM
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bluephi1914 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
Wait, I was wrong, ULM budgeted $100k in television revenue for this coming year. With the SBC products improving in football and basketball, I would venture to say that our next television deal should be negotiated with a per team payout on par with that of CUSA.
05-29-2016 10:57 AM
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Post: #38
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 10:22 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 08:01 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  For someone that doesn't care you did a lot of research and typing.

Programs jumped from the SBC for two reasons - to increase revenue (TV) and play "higher" caliber programs. We can argue how much higher your programs are but the former reason is now moot. Posting a novelette isn't going to change that, but I hope it makes you feel better.

As a fan, and you are lying to yourself if say any different, I want 6 Saturday afternoon or evening games. As a fan I let others worry about making the budget work. I help with buying tickets and a donation.

But if we want to just look at the dollars as I said the TV dollars are less, a lot less. But it's still $250,000 to $350,000 more than Western got each year in the SBC. That is a fact. I believe the conference returns around $25k to each SBC school, at least they did in Western's last season, from their 'TV Contract' . Hell ULM reported to their state budget ZERO dollars in TV money. So maybe it's now ZERO.

But still looking at the dollars....you can take away 1 million and those numbers I posted are still a million+ ahead of what each school gets today compared to while they played in the SBC.

But as I said...I'm a FAN. With that I want whats best for me and that's Saturday football. We really don't know if espn would have offered more (no report either way) for playing on Tuesday or Wednesday. But I do know it's usually a 25% increase, if not more, in attendance on a Saturday.

Oh, BTW, what makes me feel better is being RANKED in the top 25, winning 12 games and watching my team play. I was there in person for all 14 games but if I wasn't I could have turned on my TV...TV, and watched all 14 games.

So what makes you feel better? And as far as the research or typing...most people on this board knows I do my research and hell what can I say...some people can get their point across in a few words. I'm long winded.

Seriously we had to listen to tripe about how awful it was to be on ESPN3 vs ASN or a minor Fox channel, now it is ESPN3 is the wave of the future and permits Saturday games.

Unless I heard wrong CUSA has some weeknight, on Friday nights the absolute worst night for promoting brand to potential players.

Let's save some time.

In TV value CUSA has a deal that is NOMINALLY more valuable than Sun Belt. Since the creation of CUSA 3.x the two leagues have earned exactly the same number of NCAA Tournament units but CUSA splits its units more ways. Since the CFP (two years of data now) Sun Belt has averaged just over $170,000 more in CFP revenue and that will improve for the Sun Belt when we go from 11 to 10 while CUSA will decline when UAB returns and the split is 14 ways.

League revenue of TV+Hoops+CFP is now essentially identical.

The 13 (soon 14) football member CUSA has 5 bowls the 11 soon 10 member Sun Belt now has five. Of those CUSA has two that are impossible to reach by car, Sun Belt none. CUSA has 2.5 outside the league footprint (2 no matter what, 3 if UTEP doesn't go to New Mexico) and Sun Belt has one.

As to the idea you don't care about finances, fine but you really ought to, considering that WKU is now at the FBS minimum number of sports and having to cut that 16 sport budget after being a school that in the Sun Belt sponsored 19 sports.
05-29-2016 11:17 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #39
RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 10:52 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  So basically, this disproves anybody's theory that media market matters
Really missing the larger point. Media market is a component.

Arkstfan however has seen the canary in the coal mine.

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05-29-2016 11:20 AM
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RE: CUSA TV Deal Worth Less Than $250K Year Per School
(05-29-2016 11:17 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 10:22 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 08:01 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  For someone that doesn't care you did a lot of research and typing.

Programs jumped from the SBC for two reasons - to increase revenue (TV) and play "higher" caliber programs. We can argue how much higher your programs are but the former reason is now moot. Posting a novelette isn't going to change that, but I hope it makes you feel better.

As a fan, and you are lying to yourself if say any different, I want 6 Saturday afternoon or evening games. As a fan I let others worry about making the budget work. I help with buying tickets and a donation.

But if we want to just look at the dollars as I said the TV dollars are less, a lot less. But it's still $250,000 to $350,000 more than Western got each year in the SBC. That is a fact. I believe the conference returns around $25k to each SBC school, at least they did in Western's last season, from their 'TV Contract' . Hell ULM reported to their state budget ZERO dollars in TV money. So maybe it's now ZERO.

But still looking at the dollars....you can take away 1 million and those numbers I posted are still a million+ ahead of what each school gets today compared to while they played in the SBC.

But as I said...I'm a FAN. With that I want whats best for me and that's Saturday football. We really don't know if espn would have offered more (no report either way) for playing on Tuesday or Wednesday. But I do know it's usually a 25% increase, if not more, in attendance on a Saturday.

Oh, BTW, what makes me feel better is being RANKED in the top 25, winning 12 games and watching my team play. I was there in person for all 14 games but if I wasn't I could have turned on my TV...TV, and watched all 14 games.

So what makes you feel better? And as far as the research or typing...most people on this board knows I do my research and hell what can I say...some people can get their point across in a few words. I'm long winded.

Seriously we had to listen to tripe about how awful it was to be on ESPN3 vs ASN or a minor Fox channel, now it is ESPN3 is the wave of the future and permits Saturday games.

Unless I heard wrong CUSA has some weeknight, on Friday nights the absolute worst night for promoting brand to potential players.

Let's save some time.

In TV value CUSA has a deal that is NOMINALLY more valuable than Sun Belt. Since the creation of CUSA 3.x the two leagues have earned exactly the same number of NCAA Tournament units but CUSA splits its units more ways. Since the CFP (two years of data now) Sun Belt has averaged just over $170,000 more in CFP revenue and that will improve for the Sun Belt when we go from 11 to 10 while CUSA will decline when UAB returns and the split is 14 ways.

League revenue of TV+Hoops+CFP is now essentially identical.

The 13 (soon 14) football member CUSA has 5 bowls the 11 soon 10 member Sun Belt now has five. Of those CUSA has two that are impossible to reach by car, Sun Belt none. CUSA has 2.5 outside the league footprint (2 no matter what, 3 if UTEP doesn't go to New Mexico) and Sun Belt has one.

As to the idea you don't care about finances, fine but you really ought to, considering that WKU is now at the FBS minimum number of sports and having to cut that 16 sport budget after being a school that in the Sun Belt sponsored 19 sports.


*mic drop*

/thread
05-29-2016 11:20 AM
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