From ESPN.com.

The story was posted yesterday, but I didn't see anybody make a thread on here. I truly hope he makes the team. Great news for the Midshipmen and the American Athletic Conference, especially coming on Memorial Day Weekend!
GO NAVY!
GO AAC!

(05-28-2016 10:18 AM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  From ESPN.com.

The story was posted yesterday, but I didn't see anybody make a thread on here. I truly hope he makes the team. Great news for the Midshipmen and the American Athletic Conference, especially coming on Memorial Day Weekend!
GO NAVY!
GO AAC!

That is good news!! He deserves it after the way he performed on his final year for the Midshipmen. Really hope he makes it, but if the he doesn't there are other teams that need a qb.

I mean he could follow in the same footsteps as another former Midshipmen player, Roger Staubach and join t he Cowboys ..... God, I cannot believe I just said that but I really want this guy to succeed.

Major congratulations to Keenan!!!!

Go chase your dream!!!

(05-28-2016 11:19 AM)BattleCougarRed_88 Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 10:18 AM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  From ESPN.com.

The story was posted yesterday, but I didn't see anybody make a thread on here. I truly hope he makes the team. Great news for the Midshipmen and the American Athletic Conference, especially coming on Memorial Day Weekend!
GO NAVY!
GO AAC!

That is good news!! He deserves it after the way he performed on his final year for the Midshipmen. Really hope he makes it, but if the he doesn't there are other teams that need a qb.

I mean he could follow in the same footsteps as another former Midshipmen player, Roger Staubach and join t he Cowboys ..... God, I cannot believe I just said that but I really want this guy to succeed.

No, I have to disagree. It is not great news & he does not deserve it.

I love Keenan, who he is and what he has done for Navy football. He is as fine a young man as they come and I have had the opportunity to tell his mother that at a tailgate after a game. Nothing I have to say has anything to do with him, but rather the policy and purpose of service academies.

Keenan (and Swain & Cardona) should be out there serving. The political appointees of SecNav & SecDef are allowing this & I have no problem with any of those players following the policy. But I disagree with this change to the policy.

The service academies (and for the sake of charity I will include that vo-tech school in Colorado with them) exist for one reason - to graduate leaders to serve in the military and the air force. This states it far better than I can - DOD Gets it Wrong. Without the having served aspect, the story loses the luster.

Pat Tillman was a great story before it became a tragic one. Not because he played in the NFL, but because he gave that up to serve his nation. Would anyone who wasn't a Sun Devil or Cardinal fan really know his name had it not been for his serving? Certainly there would no trophy named after him.

I will still root for all those players, but I don't support this change in the policy.

(06-02-2016 08:37 AM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 11:19 AM)BattleCougarRed_88 Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 10:18 AM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  From ESPN.com.

The story was posted yesterday, but I didn't see anybody make a thread on here. I truly hope he makes the team. Great news for the Midshipmen and the American Athletic Conference, especially coming on Memorial Day Weekend!
GO NAVY!
GO AAC!

That is good news!! He deserves it after the way he performed on his final year for the Midshipmen. Really hope he makes it, but if the he doesn't there are other teams that need a qb.

I mean he could follow in the same footsteps as another former Midshipmen player, Roger Staubach and join t he Cowboys ..... God, I cannot believe I just said that but I really want this guy to succeed.

No, I have to disagree. It is not great news & he does not deserve it.

I love Keenan, who he is and what he has done for Navy football. He is as fine a young man as they come and I have had the opportunity to tell his mother that at a tailgate after a game. Nothing I have to say has anything to do with him, but rather the policy and purpose of service academies.

Keenan (and Swain & Cardona) should be out there serving. The political appointees of SecNav & SecDef are allowing this & I have no problem with any of those players following the policy. But I disagree with this change to the policy.

The service academies (and for the sake of charity I will include that vo-tech school in Colorado with them) exist for one reason - to graduate leaders to serve in the military and the air force. This states it far better than I can - DOD Gets it Wrong. Without the having served aspect, the story loses the luster.

Pat Tillman was a great story before it became a tragic one. Not because he played in the NFL, but because he gave that up to serve his nation. Would anyone who wasn't a Sun Devil or Cardinal fan really know his name had it not been for his serving? Certainly there would no trophy named after him.

I will still root for all those players, but I don't support this change in the policy.

+1

(06-02-2016 12:24 PM)Go Navy Wrote:  

(06-02-2016 08:37 AM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 11:19 AM)BattleCougarRed_88 Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 10:18 AM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  From ESPN.com.

The story was posted yesterday, but I didn't see anybody make a thread on here. I truly hope he makes the team. Great news for the Midshipmen and the American Athletic Conference, especially coming on Memorial Day Weekend!
GO NAVY!
GO AAC!

That is good news!! He deserves it after the way he performed on his final year for the Midshipmen. Really hope he makes it, but if the he doesn't there are other teams that need a qb.

I mean he could follow in the same footsteps as another former Midshipmen player, Roger Staubach and join t he Cowboys ..... God, I cannot believe I just said that but I really want this guy to succeed.

No, I have to disagree. It is not great news & he does not deserve it.

I love Keenan, who he is and what he has done for Navy football. He is as fine a young man as they come and I have had the opportunity to tell his mother that at a tailgate after a game. Nothing I have to say has anything to do with him, but rather the policy and purpose of service academies.

Keenan (and Swain & Cardona) should be out there serving. The political appointees of SecNav & SecDef are allowing this & I have no problem with any of those players following the policy. But I disagree with this change to the policy.

The service academies (and for the sake of charity I will include that vo-tech school in Colorado with them) exist for one reason - to graduate leaders to serve in the military and the air force. This states it far better than I can - DOD Gets it Wrong. Without the having served aspect, the story loses the luster.

Pat Tillman was a great story before it became a tragic one. Not because he played in the NFL, but because he gave that up to serve his nation. Would anyone who wasn't a Sun Devil or Cardinal fan really know his name had it not been for his serving? Certainly there would no trophy named after him.

I will still root for all those players, but I don't support this change in the policy.

+1

Even David Robinson served 2 years at least before joining the Spurs. The Spurs had to wait 2 years even though they drafted him.

(06-02-2016 03:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(06-02-2016 12:24 PM)Go Navy Wrote:  

(06-02-2016 08:37 AM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 11:19 AM)BattleCougarRed_88 Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 10:18 AM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  From ESPN.com.

The story was posted yesterday, but I didn't see anybody make a thread on here. I truly hope he makes the team. Great news for the Midshipmen and the American Athletic Conference, especially coming on Memorial Day Weekend!
GO NAVY!
GO AAC!

That is good news!! He deserves it after the way he performed on his final year for the Midshipmen. Really hope he makes it, but if the he doesn't there are other teams that need a qb.

I mean he could follow in the same footsteps as another former Midshipmen player, Roger Staubach and join t he Cowboys ..... God, I cannot believe I just said that but I really want this guy to succeed.

No, I have to disagree. It is not great news & he does not deserve it.

I love Keenan, who he is and what he has done for Navy football. He is as fine a young man as they come and I have had the opportunity to tell his mother that at a tailgate after a game. Nothing I have to say has anything to do with him, but rather the policy and purpose of service academies.

Keenan (and Swain & Cardona) should be out there serving. The political appointees of SecNav & SecDef are allowing this & I have no problem with any of those players following the policy. But I disagree with this change to the policy.

The service academies (and for the sake of charity I will include that vo-tech school in Colorado with them) exist for one reason - to graduate leaders to serve in the military and the air force. This states it far better than I can - DOD Gets it Wrong. Without the having served aspect, the story loses the luster.

Pat Tillman was a great story before it became a tragic one. Not because he played in the NFL, but because he gave that up to serve his nation. Would anyone who wasn't a Sun Devil or Cardinal fan really know his name had it not been for his serving? Certainly there would no trophy named after him.

I will still root for all those players, but I don't support this change in the policy.

+1

Even David Robinson served 2 years at least before joining the Spurs. The Spurs had to wait 2 years even though they drafted him.

You are correct, but there is even more to the story than that. David was too tall for the height/weight standards to serve. He required a waiver in order to graduate & serve. I'm not going to pretend that his service in the Civil Engineering Corps was the most productive in the history of the Navy, but regardless, he followed the policy & did what was required.

Again, I have no ill will towards Keenan/Swain/Cardona as I think all those guys are awesome, just that I do not agree with the change in the policy. Mitch Harris served 5 years and is now pitching for the Cardinals in MLB. Billy Hurley III served 5 years and is now on the PGA Tour. Now those are great stories.

I will go on record as well: I am against the policy of translating active duty service requirement of service Academy grad athletes to ready reserve service.

A couple thoughts. First I think Keenan will make the team and have a long NFL career, but let's say for the sake or argument he's a bust, and gets cut without having played a game for Ravens and is not able to latch on with another team. Does he now have to revert back to active duty? Or is he permanently released to pursue his football career.

Secondly, regular folks are granted release all the time to get out before their service time ends or to transfer to reserve duty. There was a program converting active duty time owed to reserve time when I was in that I looked at doing. Due to a family hardship, I ended up separating early on a hardship separation. This was a long time ago, but still.

(06-03-2016 11:59 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  A couple thoughts. First I think Keenan will make the team and have a long NFL career, but let's say for the sake or argument he's a bust, and gets cut without having played a game for Ravens and is not able to latch on with another team. Does he now have to revert back to active duty? Or is he permanently released to pursue his football career.

Secondly, regular folks are granted release all the time to get out before their service time ends or to transfer to reserve duty. There was a program converting active duty time owed to reserve time when I was in that I looked at doing. Due to a family hardship, I ended up separating early on a hardship separation. This was a long time ago, but still.

"Does he now have to revert back to active duty?"
I don't know all the details on how the policy was changed so I don't know what will happen. In the past, when Eric Kettani didn't make the Patriots team, the Navy recalled him to his ship in Jacksonville. There really isn't any history to go by with what he would have to do.

"Secondly, regular folks are granted release all the time to get out before their service time ends or to transfer to reserve duty."
That is true, but in this case the service time hadn't begun.

"Due to a family hardship, I ended up separating early on a hardship separation."
Sorry to hear about that and you bring up a good example of when a release could/should be granted. In my opinion, being drafted to an NFL team is not a hardship.

(06-03-2016 01:09 PM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 11:59 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  A couple thoughts. First I think Keenan will make the team and have a long NFL career, but let's say for the sake or argument he's a bust, and gets cut without having played a game for Ravens and is not able to latch on with another team. Does he now have to revert back to active duty? Or is he permanently released to pursue his football career.

Secondly, regular folks are granted release all the time to get out before their service time ends or to transfer to reserve duty. There was a program converting active duty time owed to reserve time when I was in that I looked at doing. Due to a family hardship, I ended up separating early on a hardship separation. This was a long time ago, but still.

"Does he now have to revert back to active duty?"
I don't know all the details on how the policy was changed so I don't know what will happen. In the past, when Eric Kettani didn't make the Patriots team, the Navy recalled him to his ship in Jacksonville. There really isn't any history to go by with what he would have to do.

"Secondly, regular folks are granted release all the time to get out before their service time ends or to transfer to reserve duty."
That is true, but in this case the service time hadn't begun.

"Due to a family hardship, I ended up separating early on a hardship separation."
Sorry to hear about that and you bring up a good example of when a release could/should be granted. In my opinion, being drafted to an NFL team is not a hardship.

Good points. I guess the Navy feels that he's more valuable to them in a Ravens uniform with the goodwill they would receive than in uniform. What I actually thought was going to happen is that he would be retained on active duty, stashed in some admin type job, and allowed to compete in the NFL at the same time, and maybe released to reserve duty after 2 years like David Robinson. Guess they are lightening up the rules for big time athletes.

Let me try to start with one sentence in overarching terms: athlete graduates should not get any special deals not available to all.
Hardship discharge? The policy exists, is clear, and it applies to all.
I don't have heartburn over Army West Point's Trent Steelman getting a release after one year because the Army is trying to downsize by 40,000 personnel - LOTS of 2LTs had the opportunity to get out, I bet. (Now, if I hear that his Branch was not cutting people and he was an exception I would start to rethink that.)
Even the previous policy which drew a hard line at two years active service talked not about professional sports but special skills, so one could frame a hypothetical discussion around a cello player or a midshipmen hitting the big-time as America's next male model.
The good stories about Academy athletes in pro sports include the service: Robinson, Staubach, Phil McConkey, Army's Villanueva, Air Force's Chad Hennings, Brian Stann, Harris, Hurley III. We provide a brand that our conference mates should love, when announcers trot out the cliché "These young men facing off against Notre Dame are going on to bigger and better things than the NFL - serving their country." That loses a lot of value when you have to add "Except the hero of last week's game who will get released from his commitment...and that special teams guy who might be good enough to make a roster...and the other guy who should be able to keep a place on a practice squad."
Big fan of Reynolds, Cardona, Swain, but it is not a good policy.

(06-03-2016 02:01 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Good points. I guess the Navy feels that he's more valuable to them in a Ravens uniform with the goodwill they would receive than in uniform. What I actually thought was going to happen is that he would be retained on active duty, stashed in some admin type job, and allowed to compete in the NFL at the same time, and maybe released to reserve duty after 2 years like David Robinson. Guess they are lightening up the rules for big time athletes.

I know that most people will probably interpret the situation as you are stating in bold. I don't think that the Navy feels that way, I think that the political appointees of SecNav & SecDef feel that way - and they make (or change) the policy.

There is a difference, but John Q. Public probably doesn't know that.

(06-03-2016 02:18 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Let me try to start with one sentence in overarching terms: athlete graduates should not get any special deals not available to all.
Hardship discharge? The policy exists, is clear, and it applies to all.
I don't have heartburn over Army West Point's Trent Steelman getting a release after one year because the Army is trying to downsize by 40,000 personnel - LOTS of 2LTs had the opportunity to get out, I bet. (Now, if I hear that his Branch was not cutting people and he was an exception I would start to rethink that.)
Even the previous policy which drew a hard line at two years active service talked not about professional sports but special skills, so one could frame a hypothetical discussion around a cello player or a midshipmen hitting the big-time as America's next male model.
The good stories about Academy athletes in pro sports include the service: Robinson, Staubach, Phil McConkey, Army's Villanueva, Air Force's Chad Hennings, Brian Stann, Harris, Hurley III. We provide a brand that our conference mates should love, when announcers trot out the cliché "These young men facing off against Notre Dame are going on to bigger and better things than the NFL - serving their country." That loses a lot of value when you have to add "Except the hero of last week's game who will get released from his commitment...and that special teams guy who might be good enough to make a roster...and the other guy who should be able to keep a place on a practice squad."
Big fan of Reynolds, Cardona, Swain, but it is not a good policy.

Excellent points.

And for full disclosure, the views we are expressing are not universal. Had a couple beers this afternoon with a company mate, second generation grad, wearing Colonel, and he was fully in favor. Fully buying the good pub arguments, heard my points on service and special treatment and still strongly felt it is a net win for big Navy recruiting, Academy recruiting and Navy athletics.

(06-03-2016 02:28 PM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 02:01 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Good points. I guess the Navy feels that he's more valuable to them in a Ravens uniform with the goodwill they would receive than in uniform. What I actually thought was going to happen is that he would be retained on active duty, stashed in some admin type job, and allowed to compete in the NFL at the same time, and maybe released to reserve duty after 2 years like David Robinson. Guess they are lightening up the rules for big time athletes.

I know that most people will probably interpret the situation as you are stating in bold. I don't think that the Navy feels that way, I think that the political appointees of SecNav & SecDef feel that way - and they make (or change) the policy.

There is a difference, but John Q. Public probably doesn't know that.

I understand that but the secretary is "the Navy" when it comes to implementing policy decisions.