(05-20-2016 11:11 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  Probably about 20% of the football supporters are against it based on the size of the stadium being only 35k. It's too small for us because we are getting an invite to the Big Ten they say. LOL ...

We had our share of those objections. People with no concept of the law of supply and demand playing an American Conference schedule in a major league city in the age of HDTV.

As long as you plan for future expansion to 50K+ it's all good.

Rutgers got in the Big 10 with a 52K seat stadium.
Maryland got in the Big 10 with a 54K seat stadium.
Louisville got in the ACC with a 55K seat stadium.
Syracuse got in the ACC with a 49K seat stadium.
BC got in the ACC with a 44K seat stadium.
Utah got in the Pac 12 with a 45K seat stadium.
Colorado got in the Pac 12 with a 53K seat stadium.
TCU got in the Big 12 with a 45K stadium.

At Houston, we designed a 60K seat stadium and built the first 40K. We poured the footings and foundation for future expansion during the initial construction.

(05-21-2016 07:26 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 11:11 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  Probably about 20% of the football supporters are against it based on the size of the stadium being only 35k. It's too small for us because we are getting an invite to the Big Ten they say. LOL ...

We had our share of those objections. People with no concept of the law of supply and demand playing an American Conference schedule in a major league city in the age of HDTV.

As long as you plan for future expansion to 50K+ it's all good.

Rutgers got in the Big 10 with a 52K seat stadium.
Maryland got in the Big 10 with a 54K seat stadium.
Louisville got in the ACC with a 55K seat stadium.
Syracuse got in the ACC with a 49K seat stadium.
BC got in the ACC with a 44K seat stadium.
Utah got in the Pac 12 with a 45K seat stadium.
Colorado got in the Pac 12 with a 53K seat stadium.
TCU got in the Big 12 with a 45K stadium.

At Houston, we designed a 60K seat stadium and built the first 40K. We poured the footings and foundation for future expansion during the initial construction.

It was a move that was necessary to get the call up when the moment is at hand. BYU and ECU are ready right now (stadium capacity wise) Rice has a big OCS. Air Force, Memphis, Hawaii and UTEP are at around 50k. UCF and UCONN are around 45k, Fresno, New Mexico and UNLV are around 40k. I'm sure I'm forgetting someone else...
Cheers!

(05-21-2016 09:02 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  It was a move that was necessary to get the call up when the moment is at hand. BYU and ECU are ready right now (stadium capacity wise) Rice has a big OCS. Air Force, Memphis, Hawaii and UTEP are at around 50k. UCF and UCONN are around 45k, Fresno, New Mexico and UNLV are around 40k. I'm sure I'm forgetting someone else...
Cheers!

UConn seats 38,110 with SRO of 2,532 at the scoreboard plaza. Source at page 29-30.

Also, I need someone from Cincinnati to explain to me how their seating capacity went from 35,097 to 40,000 by adding 1,100 club seats and 53 suites. 1+1 does not equal 5.

(05-20-2016 09:37 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 09:27 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  I didn't see it discussed here but Temple's CFO did a presentation to the faculty on the financials involved with the stadiums.

I will just list some highlights.

Essentially it is a classic "rent vs buy" situation.

Temple's lease at the Linc (NFL stadium) runs out after 2017.

Temple has proposed and is pushing for a $126 mil campus stadium that will also feature a retail store section.

Temple owns the land and already has identified financing for the project.

The NFL team wants to increase the rent from $1 mil to $3 mil per year with a 30 year lease. (That's 90 million to the NFL team plus a $12 mil stadium improvement fee due at the start of the lease.)

Just as troubling are the game day expenses which have increased from $195k in 2003 to $1.7 million. A nine-fold increase. In the future the rate of increase can be expected to be 17% a year..

Campus game day expenses would be $875k with a 5% increase per year.

So total stadium cost for Temple in 2003 came in at $1.2 mil. In 2017 it will be $2.7 mil. If we stay at the NFL stadium in 2018 with the new lease, $5 million.

If Temple moved into their own campus stadium in 2018, they would save $21 mil by 2024 even if the attendance stays the same. Temple only gets 10% of the concessions at the NFL stadium and no parking money.

At the end of the presentation the faculty just sat speechless. The financial reality of the situation had turned them all around.

In my opinion, if we (Temple) don't get the campus stadium, the football program may be doomed. We would be stuck in an NFL stadium that's too big, too far from campus that comes with NFL sized expenses.

Man that sounds like a no-brainer. When will the final decision be made?

Thought the decision was made and they were in the process of doing this thing. Sounds like they are still trying to evaluate the OCS and that it is still not a given. Is that why things suddenly went quit.

(05-20-2016 10:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Maybe UC will schedule a 1 and 1 with Temple once we are in the B12.

There will be so many UC fans there they will probably have to move the game to the LINC to accommodate the crowd. Cinn travels to Philly like Penn State and Notre Dame - right????

(05-21-2016 07:26 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 11:11 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  Probably about 20% of the football supporters are against it based on the size of the stadium being only 35k. It's too small for us because we are getting an invite to the Big Ten they say. LOL ...

We had our share of those objections. People with no concept of the law of supply and demand playing an American Conference schedule in a major league city in the age of HDTV.

As long as you plan for future expansion to 50K+ it's all good.

Rutgers got in the Big 10 with a 52K seat stadium.
Maryland got in the Big 10 with a 54K seat stadium.
Louisville got in the ACC with a 55K seat stadium.
Syracuse got in the ACC with a 49K seat stadium.
BC got in the ACC with a 44K seat stadium.
Utah got in the Pac 12 with a 45K seat stadium.
Colorado got in the Pac 12 with a 53K seat stadium.
TCU got in the Big 12 with a 45K stadium.

At Houston, we designed a 60K seat stadium and built the first 40K. We poured the footings and foundation for future expansion during the initial construction.

Stadium size doesn't mean much....as TCU, located just hours away from the biggest Big 12 fan bases (plus zillions that already live in the DFW area), recently completed a multi-year renovation and their stadium capacity went from 44,500 to 45,000. Focus of the renovation was changing many bleacher seating to higher revenue premium seating.

Baylor just built a brand new stadium and their total capacity DROPPED from 50,000 to 45,000...again, even though a ton of Big 12 fans are within an easy drive to their field.

The move for many schools is to add premium seating (higher revenue generating), and many times, lowering capacity...some traveling fan bases aren't nearly as big these days as they once were...especially back in the 80's when so many games weren't even on TV (so you had to be there to see it), and/or tv coverage was not that good back then.

(05-22-2016 10:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-21-2016 07:26 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 11:11 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  Probably about 20% of the football supporters are against it based on the size of the stadium being only 35k. It's too small for us because we are getting an invite to the Big Ten they say. LOL ...

We had our share of those objections. People with no concept of the law of supply and demand playing an American Conference schedule in a major league city in the age of HDTV.

As long as you plan for future expansion to 50K+ it's all good.

Rutgers got in the Big 10 with a 52K seat stadium.
Maryland got in the Big 10 with a 54K seat stadium.
Louisville got in the ACC with a 55K seat stadium.
Syracuse got in the ACC with a 49K seat stadium.
BC got in the ACC with a 44K seat stadium.
Utah got in the Pac 12 with a 45K seat stadium.
Colorado got in the Pac 12 with a 53K seat stadium.
TCU got in the Big 12 with a 45K stadium.

At Houston, we designed a 60K seat stadium and built the first 40K. We poured the footings and foundation for future expansion during the initial construction.

Stadium size doesn't mean much....as TCU, located just hours away from the biggest Big 12 fan bases (plus zillions that already live in the DFW area), recently completed a multi-year renovation and their stadium capacity went from 44,500 to 45,000. Focus of the renovation was changing many bleacher seating to higher revenue premium seating.

Baylor just built a brand new stadium and their total capacity DROPPED from 50,000 to 45,000...again, even though a ton of Big 12 fans are within an easy drive to their field.

The move for many schools is to add premium seating (higher revenue generating), and many times, lowering capacity...some traveling fan bases aren't nearly as big these days as they once were...especially back in the 80's when so many games weren't even on TV (so you had to be there to see it), and/or tv coverage was not that good back then.

Factor in the geographic size of modern conferences as well and the impact on travelling fan bases. The B10 spans from Nebraska to New Jersey, not a good weekend drive. WVU's travel distance is often cited as an issue with them in the B12. Temple got some bad publicity last year for not buying official American championship tickets; if the game had been at Annapolis, different story.

(05-22-2016 11:46 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 10:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-21-2016 07:26 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 11:11 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  Probably about 20% of the football supporters are against it based on the size of the stadium being only 35k. It's too small for us because we are getting an invite to the Big Ten they say. LOL ...

We had our share of those objections. People with no concept of the law of supply and demand playing an American Conference schedule in a major league city in the age of HDTV.

As long as you plan for future expansion to 50K+ it's all good.

Rutgers got in the Big 10 with a 52K seat stadium.
Maryland got in the Big 10 with a 54K seat stadium.
Louisville got in the ACC with a 55K seat stadium.
Syracuse got in the ACC with a 49K seat stadium.
BC got in the ACC with a 44K seat stadium.
Utah got in the Pac 12 with a 45K seat stadium.
Colorado got in the Pac 12 with a 53K seat stadium.
TCU got in the Big 12 with a 45K stadium.

At Houston, we designed a 60K seat stadium and built the first 40K. We poured the footings and foundation for future expansion during the initial construction.

Stadium size doesn't mean much....as TCU, located just hours away from the biggest Big 12 fan bases (plus zillions that already live in the DFW area), recently completed a multi-year renovation and their stadium capacity went from 44,500 to 45,000. Focus of the renovation was changing many bleacher seating to higher revenue premium seating.

Baylor just built a brand new stadium and their total capacity DROPPED from 50,000 to 45,000...again, even though a ton of Big 12 fans are within an easy drive to their field.

The move for many schools is to add premium seating (higher revenue generating), and many times, lowering capacity...some traveling fan bases aren't nearly as big these days as they once were...especially back in the 80's when so many games weren't even on TV (so you had to be there to see it), and/or tv coverage was not that good back then.

Factor in the geographic size of modern conferences as well and the impact on travelling fan bases. The B10 spans from Nebraska to New Jersey, not a good weekend drive. WVU's travel distance is often cited as an issue with them in the B12. Temple got some bad publicity last year for not buying official American championship tickets; if the game had been at Annapolis, different story.

Depends on the team and their traveling base. Funny you mention Nebraska too. I go to Rutgers football games and was at the Nebraska / Rutgers game last year. By the end of the game half the stadium was empty. The half that had stayed were all Nebraska fans. When we were tailgating in the parking lot we were surrounded by Nebraska fans. I talked to many of them. They were from all over the place Nebraska, Nova Scotia, and every state between. Long distance traveling is nothing to real traveling bases - I have seen traveling RV's at South Carolina where I also attend games and at Penn State and other large traveling schools too. Its a way of life for true traveling fans.

A few more things. The numbers came from the Temple CFO from his presentation to the faculty senate. Some are obviously estimates such as when he says that Temple will save $21 million by 2024 with a campus stadium. Also when he says that game day cost would increase 17% a year at the Linc and only 5% per year with a campus stadium.

Someone mentioned the faculty voting on the stadium. They don't get to vote. Even if they do take a vote, it does not matter. The vote that is needed will have to come from the Board of Trustees. So far it looks like a yes.

Temple's 35k stadium will most likely be expandable to 45k. Also keep in mind that the Eagles have stated that Temple can still rent out the Linc. The Linc would be needed perhaps twice a decade if PSU comes to town.

Temple is no longer battling or negotiating for better terms with the Eagles. The game day cost has Temple absolutely convinced that they need the campus stadium. I would say at this point Temple has good relations with the Eagles. It's not their fault that we are not a big budget Big Ten type of program.

I suppose that it's good news for you guys that the Temple brass is absolutely convinced that the American is going to be our conference for a long, long time.

(05-22-2016 05:24 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  A few more things. The numbers came from the Temple CFO from his presentation to the faculty senate. Some are obviously estimates such as when he says that Temple will save $21 million by 2024 with a campus stadium. Also when he says that game day cost would increase 17% a year at the Linc and only 5% per year with a campus stadium.

Someone mentioned the faculty voting on the stadium. They don't get to vote. Even if they do take a vote, it does not matter. The vote that is needed will have to come from the Board of Trustees. So far it looks like a yes.

Temple's 35k stadium will most likely be expandable to 45k. Also keep in mind that the Eagles have stated that Temple can still rent out the Linc. The Linc would be needed perhaps twice a decade if PSU comes to town.

Temple is no longer battling or negotiating for better terms with the Eagles. The game day cost has Temple absolutely convinced that they need the campus stadium. I would say at this point Temple has good relations with the Eagles. It's not their fault that we are not a big budget Big Ten type of program.

I suppose that it's good news for you guys that the Temple brass is absolutely convinced that the American is going to be our conference for a long, long time.

I will repeat - there is more opinion in the last post than fact. Keep that in mind with these kind of posts.

(05-22-2016 07:40 PM)malenko2 Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 05:24 PM)Philly Brian Wrote:  A few more things. The numbers came from the Temple CFO from his presentation to the faculty senate. Some are obviously estimates such as when he says that Temple will save $21 million by 2024 with a campus stadium. Also when he says that game day cost would increase 17% a year at the Linc and only 5% per year with a campus stadium.

Someone mentioned the faculty voting on the stadium. They don't get to vote. Even if they do take a vote, it does not matter. The vote that is needed will have to come from the Board of Trustees. So far it looks like a yes.

Temple's 35k stadium will most likely be expandable to 45k. Also keep in mind that the Eagles have stated that Temple can still rent out the Linc. The Linc would be needed perhaps twice a decade if PSU comes to town.

Temple is no longer battling or negotiating for better terms with the Eagles. The game day cost has Temple absolutely convinced that they need the campus stadium. I would say at this point Temple has good relations with the Eagles. It's not their fault that we are not a big budget Big Ten type of program.

I suppose that it's good news for you guys that the Temple brass is absolutely convinced that the American is going to be our conference for a long, long time.

I will repeat - there is more opinion in the last post than fact. Keep that in mind with these kind of posts.

Well temple getting an ocs helps the aac so I'm all for it.

A nice covered 35K seat stadium might get a lot of use in one of the biggest cities in America, football games, NCAA soccer, concerts, etc.

I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

(05-23-2016 10:48 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

Take a trip to North Philadelphia before you consider this a no-brainer. Then try to park your car. Then try to imagine where to put another 17,000 cars.

BTW, the OP listed a series of costs to Temple without one citation.

The rent increase is not $3million a year, but two.
http://articles.philly.com/2014-04-12/sp...t-theobald

The other costs cited in the OP are not substantiated. When you factor the costs of a 30 year lease against the costs of a new OCS, it becomes a wash. Temple needs to build its fanbase, not a stadium, IMHO.

.

(05-23-2016 11:42 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:48 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

Take a trip to North Philadelphia before you consider this a no-brainer. Then try to park your car. Then try to imagine where to put another 17,000 cars.

BTW, the OP listed a series of costs to Temple without one citation.

The rent increase is not $3million a year, but two.
http://articles.philly.com/2014-04-12/sp...t-theobald

The other costs cited in the OP are not substantiated. When you factor the costs of a 30 year lease against the costs of a new OCS, it becomes a wash. Temple needs to build its fanbase, not a stadium, IMHO.
.

They to go hand and hand IMO. Look around, the schools that play far off campus are constantly looking for a better solution.

Temple has a ton of commuters, I am sure there must be parking available to shuttle people to the stadium. I am not familiar with the area but there has to be ample public transportation. College football is meant to be played on campus, the stadium will do wonders to bring together Temple fans, students and alums.

It is clearly a tough call.

(05-23-2016 11:42 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:48 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

Take a trip to North Philadelphia before you consider this a no-brainer. Then try to park your car. Then try to imagine where to put another 17,000 cars.

Why try to imagine that? No need.

Thousands of Temple students that live on and/or just off campus wouldn't need to drive to an "on-campus" game.

Thousands more would take rail, subway and buses to Temple campus...just like thousands do every single day and plenty at night for hoop games.

No clue where you get 17,000 cars (especially for a college 35,000 seat stadium that has plenty of public transportation options plus thousands of campus/nearby students).

Heck, even the Eagles probably don't draw 17,000 cars on game day (Phillies don't come close to that).

(05-23-2016 11:42 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:48 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

Take a trip to North Philadelphia before you consider this a no-brainer. Then try to park your car. Then try to imagine where to put another 17,000 cars.

BTW, the OP listed a series of costs to Temple without one citation.

The rent increase is not $3million a year, but two.
http://articles.philly.com/2014-04-12/sp...t-theobald

The other costs cited in the OP are not substantiated. When you factor the costs of a 30 year lease against the costs of a new OCS, it becomes a wash. Temple needs to build its fanbase, not a stadium, IMHO.

.

Ok, doesnt want an OCS...

(05-23-2016 12:01 PM)panama Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:42 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:48 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

Take a trip to North Philadelphia before you consider this a no-brainer. Then try to park your car. Then try to imagine where to put another 17,000 cars.

BTW, the OP listed a series of costs to Temple without one citation.

The rent increase is not $3million a year, but two.
http://articles.philly.com/2014-04-12/sp...t-theobald

The other costs cited in the OP are not substantiated. When you factor the costs of a 30 year lease against the costs of a new OCS, it becomes a wash. Temple needs to build its fanbase, not a stadium, IMHO.

.

Ok, doesnt want an OCS...

One Temple board spends half of its bytes on stadium debates. I am all for an on-campus stadium for Temple, though I would recommend starting at 40,000. The Temple fan above believes that we either build a stadium or build a fan base; I do not see these two things as mutually exclusive; in other words, do both. Most of the stadium financing will come from private donations that are available for a stadium only; they will not be transferable to academics or coaches salaries or recruiting costs.

(05-23-2016 12:46 PM)vick mike Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:01 PM)panama Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:42 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:48 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  I am confused. Did the CFO re0inforce the cost savings without discussing the cost to build and/or debt financing. Not to mention using up space on campus.

On the flip side, did he say anything about branding and goodwill having 30k+ people coming to campus 6 weekends a year? What that will mean to the surrounding businesses and the property values?

In the end I think it is a no brainer to build it. Have to make like Houston in which you install the foundation for expansion. What the Eagles are doing to Temple is unfathomable for a half publicly financed stadium, the NFL is the absolute epitome of greed.

Take a trip to North Philadelphia before you consider this a no-brainer. Then try to park your car. Then try to imagine where to put another 17,000 cars.

BTW, the OP listed a series of costs to Temple without one citation.

The rent increase is not $3million a year, but two.
http://articles.philly.com/2014-04-12/sp...t-theobald

The other costs cited in the OP are not substantiated. When you factor the costs of a 30 year lease against the costs of a new OCS, it becomes a wash. Temple needs to build its fanbase, not a stadium, IMHO.

.

Ok, doesnt want an OCS...

One Temple board spends half of its bytes on stadium debates. I am all for an on-campus stadium for Temple, though I would recommend starting at 40,000. The Temple fan above believes that we either build a stadium or build a fan base; I do not see these two things as mutually exclusive; in other words, do both. Most of the stadium financing will come from private donations that are available for a stadium only; they will not be transferable to academics or coaches salaries or recruiting costs.

Several of our programs are being handed a once in a lifetime oppurtunity. Especially for those of us that are city schools, we HAVE to do this now. There will not be $$$ nor land to do this later.

We don't have a 'ton of commuters'. We haven't been a commuter school in close to a decade. Demand for on-campus housing exceeds supply. We just built the most expensive dorm in the country and it's still not enough.

I have no idea what Fishpro is talking about, but we need the stadium.