(04-24-2016 10:19 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:44 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:14 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Posted 2 years ago.

http://utamavericks.forumer.com/topic/13...x19WVI_qtM

We have a few of the same, but the whole issue was muted because in our first game as Red Wolves we beat Texas A&M. After a decade of losing as Indians it was sort of a sea-change, and before long we were winning. Winning begat attendance and donations and new facilities, etc. A snowball. That sort of thing makes a mascot change a whole lot easier.

I was at that game! Aggies were not happy as we descended down the stadium ramps.

The best part is that Aggies fans had given Texas hell the year before because we nearly beat the then #3 ranked Longhorns in Austin, only losing when the Big 12 officials stepped in and ruled that we had lined up incorrectly on an onside kick we had recovered. The League had to publicly apologize after TV replays made it clear that we weren't even close to being lined up wrong.

The next year, we went into A&M, kept it close, and this time the officials didn't step in, allowing us to take the lead and eventually intercept a pass in the final seconds to seal the win. Longhorn fans then gave Aggies fans hell and the cycle repeated.

If only we didn't turn to mush a couple games later on our way to another mediocre year without a bowl game.

(04-24-2016 09:45 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 08:59 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 02:54 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:40 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Texas State has negative repercussions from their name change. There are a plethora of SWT grads that refuse to recognize the change and refuse to have anything to do with their alma mater now. Bunches of them became longhorn fans because of it. TXST is having to build a new fan base from grads since 2003. Yes, there are those whose diplomas read SWT that still support the school but for every one of those I would bet there are 5 that washed their hands.

This is really fascinating. I never that this was so pervasive. So far I have not heard anything related to Georgia Perimeter students revolting at being absorbed by GSU. It just seems like some people are never satisfied.

But isn't Perimeter a junior college or something like that? I would not expect juco students to rebel against becoming part of a significant, nationally-known university.

This....students of Georgia Perimeter basically got an automatic "upgrade" in college status (update is in quotes because it's a qualitative thought per student). I don't imagine there will be much strife...add to that the fact that Georgia State as a football team is still in the process of trying to start their original fanbase, so whether people leave or not is irrelevant. I would imagine that GaState's fanbase will fluctuate over the next few years more so on their on field successes/failures and less dependent on whether Ga Perimeter fans are bitter and choose not to support the movement. I think there will be less backlash than in the Kennesaw State/ Southern Poly merger.

i would think going from SWT to The Texas State University would also be an upgrade.

(04-24-2016 10:37 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:45 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 08:59 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 02:54 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:40 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Texas State has negative repercussions from their name change. There are a plethora of SWT grads that refuse to recognize the change and refuse to have anything to do with their alma mater now. Bunches of them became longhorn fans because of it. TXST is having to build a new fan base from grads since 2003. Yes, there are those whose diplomas read SWT that still support the school but for every one of those I would bet there are 5 that washed their hands.

This is really fascinating. I never that this was so pervasive. So far I have not heard anything related to Georgia Perimeter students revolting at being absorbed by GSU. It just seems like some people are never satisfied.

But isn't Perimeter a junior college or something like that? I would not expect juco students to rebel against becoming part of a significant, nationally-known university.

This....students of Georgia Perimeter basically got an automatic "upgrade" in college status (upgrade is in quotes because it's a qualitative thought per student). I don't imagine there will be much strife...add to that the fact that Georgia State as a football team is still in the process of trying to start their original fanbase, so whether people leave or not is irrelevant. I would imagine that GaState's fanbase will fluctuate over the next few years more so on their on field successes/failures and less dependent on whether Ga Perimeter fans are bitter and choose not to support the movement. I think there will be less backlash than in the Kennesaw State/ Southern Poly merger.

i would think going from SWT to The Texas State University would also be an upgrade.

I agree, but like I said, its dependent on the individual how much it matters. Texas State's situation is different...SWT had 100ish years of football before the name change. That's a lot of donor and fan support to transition over to a new name. As stated, some came...some haven't quite yet...some never will. Georgia Perimeter doesn't have football and is a part of the NJCAA. I speculate that they currently foot the bill for most of their athletics and don't have a mass dedicated fan base at their athletic events. So if true, their lack of athletic donors and fans gives Ga State an advantage that Texas State wouldn't have had. Ga State won't have to worry as much about losing their fan base because of the merger...and this only pertains to the sports that Ga Perimeter currently have. Since they have 0 home team football fans, that number can only go up for Ga State. Their may not be a significant amount of Ga Perimeter fans to worry about in the other sports. Their fans that are around are the one's that will either decide to continue forward and support Ga State (whether now or later), or move on. Those that don't attend the Ga Perimeter games now probably won't just up and start attending Ga State games next year. They will have to be woo'd like any other potential new fan.

Edit: Ga Perimeter being a community college with no official football team, and a few campuses that on the eastern and northern side of Atlanta, you're probably dealing with a ton of thUGA fans also....fun fun!

(04-24-2016 10:37 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:45 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 08:59 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 02:54 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:40 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Texas State has negative repercussions from their name change. There are a plethora of SWT grads that refuse to recognize the change and refuse to have anything to do with their alma mater now. Bunches of them became longhorn fans because of it. TXST is having to build a new fan base from grads since 2003. Yes, there are those whose diplomas read SWT that still support the school but for every one of those I would bet there are 5 that washed their hands.

This is really fascinating. I never that this was so pervasive. So far I have not heard anything related to Georgia Perimeter students revolting at being absorbed by GSU. It just seems like some people are never satisfied.

But isn't Perimeter a junior college or something like that? I would not expect juco students to rebel against becoming part of a significant, nationally-known university.

This....students of Georgia Perimeter basically got an automatic "upgrade" in college status (update is in quotes because it's a qualitative thought per student). I don't imagine there will be much strife...add to that the fact that Georgia State as a football team is still in the process of trying to start their original fanbase, so whether people leave or not is irrelevant. I would imagine that GaState's fanbase will fluctuate over the next few years more so on their on field successes/failures and less dependent on whether Ga Perimeter fans are bitter and choose not to support the movement. I think there will be less backlash than in the Kennesaw State/ Southern Poly merger.

i would think going from SWT to The Texas State University would also be an upgrade.

As far as the general perception in the State of Texas, I think I can accurately report that it was an upgrade.

(04-24-2016 09:14 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Posted 2 years ago.

http://utamavericks.forumer.com/topic/13...x19WVI_qtM

Over-heated melodrama.
Don't know how long ago our poet wrote that. Of course, history has clearly shown that that Rebel and Confererate theme had to go those 46 or so years ago.

(04-24-2016 12:35 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:28 PM)LaCajunsFan Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:13 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 11:18 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  ULM has a similar separation issue. When Northeast Louisiana changed its name to Louisiana Monore a lot of the alums who graduated from Northeast refused to join in the Louisiana Monroe name change. Now we have those who support ULM and those NLU fans who refuse to support ULM. They have a Facebook page and everything. It's pretty sad how some people just can't adapt to change.

That is unfortunate, it can take away the identity of the institution from the alumni. From what you've said earlier, that seems to be the case.

If we were ever changed to University of Georgia - Stateboro, I probably do the same thing.

Yes, I'm sure that it had a negative impact on some fans....especially older ones. Even though it was a good change, and ULM benefited from it on several fronts, such changes have can have a big impact. But most similar cases, as is the one, are short term only.

After all, I'm sure there are people who were upset over all those blacksmiths loosing jobs way back when. And I'm sure if Facebook had been around there would have been lots of pages concerning it.....but that doesn't mean that the change was wrong or inappropriate. Same thing here; people have adjusted and moved on.

Agree to disagree.

Just because you don't see any negative effects, doesn't mean others don't. In fact I met an alum at the 2014 game and he had mentioned his same disdain.

I can understand the plight of NLU graduates, it seems like a silly political change to begin with.

That silly political change carried enough weight to secure an all sports Sun Belt invite. It also gave them a much more palatable moniker in ULM over NLU.

This is an interesting discussion from this Coastal fan's perspective for a couple of reasons.

Coastal was founded in 1954 as a community college - not trade-school but a place to allow local students to get first 2 years before transferring - by locals, It was affiliated with CofC for 2 years then was independent. It was then brought into the SC system about a decade later and that's also about the time Coastal got its own land and buildings. The Chanticleer was selected based on SC's gamecock mascot - Coastal was the Trojans previously.

Fast forward 30 years, Coastal is granting some 4-year degrees and has some dorms but is finding it difficult to work from within the SC system. So they broke away and became independent once again in 1993. So this was a major issue for some in-state people. There was an attempt to change the mascot but it failed. Before attending Coastal I worked with a guy who started when it was USC - Coastal but took the 6 year plan so the option expired for him to get a USC degree. Many alums from pre-1993 won't claim Coastal but rather claim SC. Some do claim Coastal however and it makes me happy when they do.

Fast forward to 2002 - Coastal is adding football and there were some within athletics / university that wanted a different mascot for a few reasons - not fierce enough, break away from SC, etc. So they started to go down that path again, but it failed again thanks mainly to the SGA. There were some students that felt very strongly about keeping the mascot, while I also think some just didn't want it because it wasn't their idea. We almost became the Storm, Copperheads, and others that i can't remember. I heard a comment at that time that was similar to 'well if we are going to keep the Chanticleers then they need to embrace it'. So far so good, the Chanticleer is getting embraced more and more - event have a hand sign now and many students on social media flash it. It looks like the O.K. sign but the bottom fingers are more pointy than round.

I've joked before that I wanted to change the name to Carolina University just to screw with everyone else but was shocked to see some really wanted ECU to do that. I've come to realize, and this thread hits home, any change is hard and if not handled correctly that it could cause some major problems with supporters in identifying / relating positively with the school. But also, time should heal the wounds.

Obviously EMU has some issues but winning would help unite the fanbase. Also, I wonder now if the UAB route wouldn't be a good choice. Drop football and see if the fan outrage is enough to resurrect the program as this would be a unifying factor as well. Plus the school gets to re-boot and hopefully start off in better shape.

(04-23-2016 12:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  So I guess AState is the odd ball in the group? When we changed from Indians to Red Wolves, our merchandise sales, attendance, and donations all went up. There are a few Razorback fans who claim to have degrees from here who still argue that it was stupid to change the name, but those same people still think we're stupid for trying to play FBS football.

Beating TAMU in our first game as Red Wolves soothed a lot of ill feelings.

(04-23-2016 04:55 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 11:18 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 10:04 PM)RamblinRedWolf44 Wrote:  Reading up on them a little bit, they actually had a very loyal fan base once upon a time, but once they decided to retire their old nickname (the "Hurons") it really split the fan base apparently. If memory serves me correctly, their's actually a separate EMU alumni association dedicated solely to the "Hurons".

ULM has a similar separation issue. When Northeast Louisiana changed its name to Louisiana Monore a lot of the alums who graduated from Northeast refused to join in the Louisiana Monroe name change. Now we have those who support ULM and those NLU fans who refuse to support ULM. They have a Facebook page and everything. It's pretty sad how some people just can't adapt to change.

Yeah, I work with an NLU grad who has totally severed his ties to ULM over the name change issue. I figured he'd get over it in a year or two but he has yet to soften his position on the matter. Of course, he's taken this opportunity to throw 100% of his support to LSU, which is probably what he wanted to do all along. I think that he just used the name issue as an excuse to abandon his alma mater and jump on the LSU bandwagon. ULM doesn't have the market cornered on those guys though. We've got plenty of turncoat alums at LA Tech even without a name change.

I feel ya... But ULM also changed their mascot from the Indians to the Warhawks, a double whammy.. Total break from their past..

We have somewhat of an identity crisis as well.. There are some that will only say the graduated from USL... I agree with the Tech guy, those are the ones that (I believe) were never fans at all... They probably wore their LSU shirts to class... Hated those guys...

Eastern Michigan is like the poster-child of "worst case scenario".

They had some decent years in the NAIA and Division II and in 1976 moved to Division I and the MAC. They had 8 straight winning seasons, had close calls but losing seasons last two years before entering the MAC for 1976. That began the darkness.

In the forty seasons since joining the MAC they have posted six winning seasons, the last 21 seasons ago. They've had eight seasons with one or zero wins in the past forty years. Of the seven head coaches for men's basketball since moving Division I, four had losing records over their time at EMU, 22 losing seasons out of 40 in Division I. They had made the NAIA title game in 1971 and Division II Final Four in 1972.

Other than the amazing 10 win football team of 1987 and four good (two great hoops years) they've struggled with the whole success in Division I thing in the two major sports. Hard to blame the fans for writing them off. They've not had consecutive winning seasons in football since 1986-89.



In 1981 when the NCAA changed the criteria for I-A and I-AA the MAC voted to expel EMU and EMU sued and the league finally settled and allowed them to remain.

On the hoops side, EMU had four NCAA appearances 1988, 1991, 1996, 1998, with Sweet 16 in 1991 and round of 32 in 1996.

(04-25-2016 06:18 AM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:14 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Posted 2 years ago.

http://utamavericks.forumer.com/topic/13...x19WVI_qtM

Over-heated melodrama.
Don't know how long ago our poet wrote that. Of course, history has clearly shown that that Rebel and Confererate theme had to go those 46 or so years ago.

I was there at the time. It was divisive for sure but only a small number of students were at the forefront. I remember that even the black players on the football team were ok with the rebel theme . at that time a large percentage of the students ( like me ) were mainly focused on getting their degree and not really invested in the school spirit thing. as I recall, maybe less than 2000 of the then 15 or 16000 students even voted on it. It wasnt till years later I joined the maverick club and met many boosters who lost much of their enthusiasm due to the way the name change was rammed thru. then later came the dropping of football and the rest is history. luckily uta did not become the aardvarks which was one of the leading vote getters in the name change poll at the time

(04-25-2016 08:49 AM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:35 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:28 PM)LaCajunsFan Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:13 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 11:18 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  ULM has a similar separation issue. When Northeast Louisiana changed its name to Louisiana Monore a lot of the alums who graduated from Northeast refused to join in the Louisiana Monroe name change. Now we have those who support ULM and those NLU fans who refuse to support ULM. They have a Facebook page and everything. It's pretty sad how some people just can't adapt to change.

That is unfortunate, it can take away the identity of the institution from the alumni. From what you've said earlier, that seems to be the case.

If we were ever changed to University of Georgia - Stateboro, I probably do the same thing.

Yes, I'm sure that it had a negative impact on some fans....especially older ones. Even though it was a good change, and ULM benefited from it on several fronts, such changes have can have a big impact. But most similar cases, as is the one, are short term only.

After all, I'm sure there are people who were upset over all those blacksmiths loosing jobs way back when. And I'm sure if Facebook had been around there would have been lots of pages concerning it.....but that doesn't mean that the change was wrong or inappropriate. Same thing here; people have adjusted and moved on.

Agree to disagree.

Just because you don't see any negative effects, doesn't mean others don't. In fact I met an alum at the 2014 game and he had mentioned his same disdain.

I can understand the plight of NLU graduates, it seems like a silly political change to begin with.

That silly political change carried enough weight to secure an all sports Sun Belt invite. It also gave them a much more palatable moniker in ULM over NLU.

How so? ULM was as qualified to join the SBC with the name NLU. The SBC needed qualified members and had to designate some OOC games as conference games because there weren't enough teams for the first few years. The SBC needed ULM with or without the name change.

(04-25-2016 06:18 AM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:14 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Posted 2 years ago.

http://utamavericks.forumer.com/topic/13...x19WVI_qtM

Over-heated melodrama.
Don't know how long ago our poet wrote that. Of course, history has clearly shown that that Rebel and Confererate theme had to go those 46 or so years ago.

Dismiss it if you want to, but it obviously still sticks with some people.

(04-25-2016 11:40 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 06:18 AM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:14 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Posted 2 years ago.

http://utamavericks.forumer.com/topic/13...x19WVI_qtM

Over-heated melodrama.
Don't know how long ago our poet wrote that. Of course, history has clearly shown that that Rebel and Confererate theme had to go those 46 or so years ago.

Dismiss it if you want to, but it obviously still sticks with some people.

I did not know it was UTA Rebels at one time. UTA was way ahead on the PC curve.

(04-22-2016 05:36 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 03:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 03:00 PM)RamblinRedWolf44 Wrote:  http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/t...two-years/

"HBO dropped a bomb on the school Tuesday night during a Real Sports program that said the athletic department lost $52 million the last two years and ranks last in Division I football attendance."


http://thebiglead.com/2016/04/20/eastern...-football/

"That’s despite a pilot program to sell beer. The professor estimates the program is costing $1,000 per student. The Eagles have won more than two games once in the past seven years."

Just reading that sentence gave me shivers. Sounds like a struggle for them though. I wish them the best especially if they're in danger of being UAB'd.

As bad as I hate to say it schools that have shown over a period time that no one comes to the games should drop down. If not the G5 will start to look like FCS with schools that really should not be playing at that level.

If you drop you have to go way down as the FCS is not that much less expensive. I remember Rice doing a study about dropping down to then I-AA but concluded they would lose more by doing so.

Having football has a lot of non quantifiable benefits as far as keeping alumni involved and attracting students but man that is tough sledding at EMU.

(04-24-2016 12:40 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Texas State has negative repercussions from their name change. There are a plethora of SWT grads that refuse to recognize the change and refuse to have anything to do with their alma mater now. Bunches of them became longhorn fans because of it. TXST is having to build a new fan base from grads since 2003. Yes, there are those whose diplomas read SWT that still support the school but for every one of those I would bet there are 5 that washed their hands.

All they did was drop "Southwest" from the name. I don't get the group that can't get over the name change. They were debating a name change back in the 70's. It was inevitable.

San Marcos was and is a great place to go to school, but there was always very little school pride related to athletics. Those students were always Longhorn or Aggie fans first. The Bobcats need to win to get fans to support the team. Playing mediocre football and bad basketball is not going to get it done in San Marcos. We need to create a winning environment where going to a game is an enjoyable experience. I don't think Teis gets that.

(04-25-2016 01:19 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:40 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Texas State has negative repercussions from their name change. There are a plethora of SWT grads that refuse to recognize the change and refuse to have anything to do with their alma mater now. Bunches of them became longhorn fans because of it. TXST is having to build a new fan base from grads since 2003. Yes, there are those whose diplomas read SWT that still support the school but for every one of those I would bet there are 5 that washed their hands.

All they did was drop "Southwest" from the name. I don't get the group that can't get over the name change. They were debating a name change back in the 70's. It was inevitable.

San Marcos was and is a great place to go to school, but there was always very little school pride related to athletics. Those students were always Longhorn or Aggie fans first. The Bobcats need to win to get fans to support the team. Playing mediocre football and bad basketball is not going to get it done in San Marcos. We need to create a winning environment where going to a game is an enjoyable experience. I don't think Teis gets that.

I wonder how many fans stuck from the two D2 championships? My mom was at TXST when those happened and claims being a Bobcat over anything else, however she doesn't really watch Bobcat athletics unless I tell her it's on real TV, but when she does she roots hard for the Cats.

"...if you have any sense of what is right for EMU, you will drop EMU from Division I football as soon as possible. "

Report presented to the EMU Board of Regents this past Friday

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/mi.../83493156/


The report goes on to propose alternative routes and although it strongly pushes to end football entirely, it does suggest alternatives such as dropping the football down to the DII or DIII levels and join the Horizon League (which doesn't offer scholarships)

(04-25-2016 02:19 PM)RamblinRedWolf44 Wrote:  "...if you have any sense of what is right for EMU, you will drop EMU from Division I football as soon as possible. "

Report presented to the EMU Board of Regents this past Friday

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/mi.../83493156/


The report goes on to propose alternative routes and although it strongly pushes to end football entirely, it does suggest alternatives such as dropping the football down to the DII or DIII levels and join the Horizon League (which doesn't offer scholarships)

They can drop down to FCS (scholarship or non-scholarship) but not DII if they want to keep the rest of their sports in DI, correct?

I imagine they just used the wrong terminology.

(04-25-2016 12:11 PM)stodgdog Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 11:40 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 06:18 AM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:14 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Posted 2 years ago.

http://utamavericks.forumer.com/topic/13...x19WVI_qtM

Over-heated melodrama.
Don't know how long ago our poet wrote that. Of course, history has clearly shown that that Rebel and Confererate theme had to go those 46 or so years ago.

Dismiss it if you want to, but it obviously still sticks with some people.

I did not know it was UTA Rebels at one time. UTA was way ahead on the PC curve.

Yea, they really were. Sometimes that is part of the problem. There was a lot of strife in that time due to doing the right thing.

UTA was the first school in the A&M system (where they were until 1967) to allow any race other than white to enroll.

Due to that there were many in the black power movement who protested the football games causing a distraction. At the time, UTA was one of the SLC leaders in attendance and many within the department and U viewed it as a distraction. It also led to a competition, with hard feelings for both sides.

Back then, ASC/UTA embarrassed the full on Southern Rebel theme, with a Dixie flag and Johnny Reb mascot, a confederate soldier on horseback. There was no ambiguity on what the Rebel theme meant.

Some of the more empathetic folks at the U with a good deal of foresight saw that wasn't sustainable. But they handled (one student vote was totally disregarded cause the outcome wasn't desired) it wrong and those that saw nothing wrong with the Rebel theme were alienated.

Then UTA went 0-10, moved up to the University Division (FBS today) ill-prepared, lost a lot and went from SRO crowds on campus to averaging 5,000 in the Texas Rangers Stadium.

UTA is literally the best case study on how not to move up to the next level.