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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #41
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
For those who keep thinking CUSA is better, I can't help bit hear a Back to the Future quote.

You aren't thinking forth dimensionally.

At one point, the Southwest and Missouri Valley Conferences were top tier Unoversity Division football conferences, the WAC produced a national football champion and Tulane was a contending SEC football team. Things change. CUSA is a lateral move right now. No way to recoop millions needed to make that move.
01-29-2016 08:23 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #42
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-29-2016 08:16 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 05:14 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Who knows whether there are any invitations forthcoming, but I'd be 99% sure any Belt schools offered would accept.

Please explain how a school is going to make up the lost millions? It no longer makes financial sense to move like UNT, WKU, MTSU, the F_U's, etc. did.

Those moves make sense. Added travel costs, higher exit fees, high entrance fees and slightly higher tv revenues aren't the recipe for growing an athletic department.

It's not always about bean counting. At heart, college athletics is just part of the marketing for a university. Like it or not, CUSA is currently perceived as a more prestigious conference than the Sun Belt. If current lineups don't change for a while that may or may not be the case in a few years but right now that's the reality. So schools are going to opt for the prestige and improved perception. It's just good marketing.

And, as another poster has pointed out, if coming up with $2M in exit fee money is a problem for a school that school isn't getting invited anyway.

Plus, it's not like there are a ton of huge rivalries in the current Sun Belt -- these schools haven't been together long enough. GS/App is carried over from another conference and that's great, but they could recreate it elsewhere. A lot of the other rivalries are with schools that have already moved to CUSA, so that's even more incentive to leave.
01-29-2016 08:35 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #43
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
Also, part of the reason CUSA is considering this is so they can do regional scheduling and cut travel, so "added travel costs" shouldn't be a problem.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2016 08:44 PM by LatahCounty.)
01-29-2016 08:38 PM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #44
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
The SBC should come up with an agreement to stick together to prevent the prisoners dilemma where if you don't take the offer the next school will. Increase the exit fee? Not sure that is the answer but if we all agree to stick together, the SBC could soon be on the driver's seat and actually steal 2 or more CUSA schools that see themselves as football programs wanting to associate with like minded schools.
01-29-2016 09:03 PM
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APPdiesel Offline
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Post: #45
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
The problem with expansion is you can't have the "it's not you it's me" break up conversation. Meaning (hypothetically if they wanted to) CUSA can't force UTSA and UTEP out to bring A-State and ULL or App and Ga Southern in. Besides going the Big East route, blowing it up and starting all over its never been done before.

I would love to see the two conferences "trade" everything west of the Alabama / Mississippi state line. Geographically and competitively it's a relatively fair trade but it'd never happen. You'd never be able to get 25 university presidents to agree to it.

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(This post was last modified: 01-29-2016 11:18 PM by APPdiesel.)
01-29-2016 11:16 PM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #46
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-29-2016 08:35 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:16 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 05:14 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Who knows whether there are any invitations forthcoming, but I'd be 99% sure any Belt schools offered would accept.

Please explain how a school is going to make up the lost millions? It no longer makes financial sense to move like UNT, WKU, MTSU, the F_U's, etc. did.

Those moves make sense. Added travel costs, higher exit fees, high entrance fees and slightly higher tv revenues aren't the recipe for growing an athletic department.

It's not always about bean counting. At heart, college athletics is just part of the marketing for a university. Like it or not, CUSA is currently perceived as a more prestigious conference than the Sun Belt. If current lineups don't change for a while that may or may not be the case in a few years but right now that's the reality. So schools are going to opt for the prestige and improved perception. It's just good marketing.

And, as another poster has pointed out, if coming up with $2M in exit fee money is a problem for a school that school isn't getting invited anyway.

Plus, it's not like there are a ton of huge rivalries in the current Sun Belt -- these schools haven't been together long enough. GS/App is carried over from another conference and that's great, but they could recreate it elsewhere. A lot of the other rivalries are with schools that have already moved to CUSA, so that's even more incentive to leave.

So your saying these schools are magically going to fond millions of dollars they dont have for marketing purposes?

And it's not just the exit fee, it the increase in travel costs and less than half the tv revenue it was. The previous schools would have had a tough decision of those circumstances existed today.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 12:24 AM by FoUTASportscaster.)
01-30-2016 12:21 AM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #47
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-29-2016 08:38 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Also, part of the reason CUSA is considering this is so they can do regional scheduling and cut travel, so "added travel costs" shouldn't be a problem.

Olympic sports will still travel to the cross division. It stretches from West Virginia to the mountain time zone.

CUSA is several states northern and hundreds of miles western and southern.

They want to reduce travel costs. I buy that. To say they'll lower their costs more than the current Belt? Ha!
01-30-2016 12:28 AM
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airtroop Offline
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Post: #48
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-29-2016 08:35 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:16 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 05:14 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Who knows whether there are any invitations forthcoming, but I'd be 99% sure any Belt schools offered would accept.

Please explain how a school is going to make up the lost millions? It no longer makes financial sense to move like UNT, WKU, MTSU, the F_U's, etc. did.

Those moves make sense. Added travel costs, higher exit fees, high entrance fees and slightly higher tv revenues aren't the recipe for growing an athletic department.

It's not always about bean counting. At heart, college athletics is just part of the marketing for a university. Like it or not, CUSA is currently perceived as a more prestigious conference than the Sun Belt. If current lineups don't change for a while that may or may not be the case in a few years but right now that's the reality. So schools are going to opt for the prestige and improved perception. It's just good marketing.

And, as another poster has pointed out, if coming up with $2M in exit fee money is a problem for a school that school isn't getting invited anyway.

Plus, it's not like there are a ton of huge rivalries in the current Sun Belt -- these schools haven't been together long enough. GS/App is carried over from another conference and that's great, but they could recreate it elsewhere. A lot of the other rivalries are with schools that have already moved to CUSA, so that's even more incentive to leave.

Please, please, PLEASE, go join C-USA then... like, yesterday (with all due respect). The Vandals deserve MUCH more respect and prestige than they are enjoying here in the lowly SBC. Up to now I've been kinda "shrug... meh" about renewing Idaho's associate membership but now it's crystal clear the Belt is just holding you guys back.... BYE-BYE!!!! (waving)
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 05:06 AM by airtroop.)
01-30-2016 04:56 AM
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BRtransplant Offline
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Post: #49
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-29-2016 08:23 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  For those who keep thinking CUSA is better, I can't help bit hear a Back to the Future quote.

You aren't thinking forth dimensionally.

At one point, the Southwest and Missouri Valley Conferences were top tier Unoversity Division football conferences, the WAC produced a national football champion and Tulane was a contending SEC football team. Things change. CUSA is a lateral move right now. No way to recoop millions needed to make that move.

The BIGGEST change that has taken place is the formation of the P5 as an entity. Those P5 conferences have now officially separated themselves from us. We've all been relegated down to second class citizenship and it'll only get worse from here. In the end, it won't matter which G5 conference one is a member of. If you didn't make the cut and get into a P5 conference, you are SOL like the rest of us. Of course, those most delusional among us will still suffer from dreams of grandeur for quite a while, but reality will eventually sink in for them too.
01-30-2016 05:37 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #50
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 05:37 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:23 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  For those who keep thinking CUSA is better, I can't help bit hear a Back to the Future quote.

You aren't thinking forth dimensionally.

At one point, the Southwest and Missouri Valley Conferences were top tier Unoversity Division football conferences, the WAC produced a national football champion and Tulane was a contending SEC football team. Things change. CUSA is a lateral move right now. No way to recoop millions needed to make that move.

The BIGGEST change that has taken place is the formation of the P5 as an entity. Those P5 conferences have now officially separated themselves from us. We've all been relegated down to second class citizenship and it'll only get worse from here. In the end, it won't matter which G5 conference one is a member of. If you didn't make the cut and get into a P5 conference, you are SOL like the rest of us. Of course, those most delusional among us will still suffer from dreams of grandeur for quite a while, but reality will eventually sink in for them too.

If our goal for our schools is to get into a P5 conference...don't forget to buy your Powerball tickets.

The majority of college football fans are like middle school girls. Worrying about who is popular, who is richer, who gets more attention, who hangs with who, and who has the coolest hat.

I honestly do not care if the University of Arkansas has a $5 billion dollar diamond encrusted stadium with 200 pig statues made of solid gold surrounding it.

I care that my school's stadium is better than it was last year. I care that my school's indoor facility is better than a few years ago. I care that we sold more season tickets. I care that donations are up. I care that we have a full complement of scholarships unlike the 1990's. Is MY SCHOOL getting better? That's the only thing that matters.

You can sit around and cry that Bill Gates won't invite you to his parties (and he won't) or you can just go to work and get better every day.
01-30-2016 10:10 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #51
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 12:21 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  So your saying these schools are magically going to fond millions of dollars they dont have for marketing purposes?

And it's not just the exit fee, it the increase in travel costs and less than half the tv revenue it was. The previous schools would have had a tough decision of those circumstances existed today.

You are talking about university presidents. This is a Prisoner's Dilemma and its not just the school's future that is on the line....it is the university president's career on the line too.

1) If you are a university president that chooses not to accept a CUSA invite....and your rival school does....your career is personally...fried. DOA. A corpse.

2) If you are a university president that chooses not to accept a CUSA invite....and your rival does not either.....your career remains as-is.

3) If you are a university president that chooses to accept a CUSA invite.....your career is boosted...at least for a while.

So....even if it costs the school a lot of money and doesn't have a clear-cut way to recoup the money....which do you choose?

Hell, I have no illusions about CUSA and I'd probably pick option 3 if I were a university president who wasn't near retirement.

How does the SBC change this dynamic? Until they find a way...CUSA is going to troll us about expansion like this every single year. And every single year we are going to sit here undercutting our own conference perception discussing why everyone would leave for CUSA.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 10:27 AM by ark30inf.)
01-30-2016 10:26 AM
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Post: #52
CUSA Talks Expansion
We would be gone tomorrow if they called today. So would everyone else in the league. No big deal and nothing personal.


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01-30-2016 10:29 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #53
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 10:29 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We would be gone tomorrow if they called today. So would everyone else in the league. No big deal and nothing personal.


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It all depends on the university president. They don't all think alike. If you find someone who is nearing retirement and isn't particularly worried about his future career.....he might just follow the financials and the cost-benefit and buck the Prisoner's Dilemma.

You have to remember that we just had a university president decide to not only leave CUSA...but disband their football program. University presidents do not always behave as fans anticipate.

Everyone is making blanket statements that "nobody would leave anymore because of the cost-benefit"...or "everyone would leave immediately". People like to make everything black and white and simple. Even when they aren't.
01-30-2016 10:40 AM
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Post: #54
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
Would Cusa try to have travel partners like the SBC?

Seems to me that is how they can save money.
Along with less cross division games.
I guess whoever they would invite would need to work as a travel partner.
Ideally for a member that doesn't have one currently.
Like Coastal for App St saving the rest of the conference money.
01-30-2016 10:41 AM
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WolfBird Offline
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CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 10:40 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:29 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We would be gone tomorrow if they called today. So would everyone else in the league. No big deal and nothing personal.


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It all depends on the university president. They don't all think alike. If you find someone who is nearing retirement and isn't particularly worried about his future career.....he might just follow the financials and the cost-benefit and buck the Prisoner's Dilemma.

You have to remember that we just had a university president decide to not only leave CUSA...but disband their football program. University presidents do not always behave as fans anticipate.

Everyone is making blanket statements that "nobody would leave anymore because of the cost-benefit"...or "everyone would leave immediately". People like to make everything black and white and simple. Even when they aren't.

They aren't going to ask someone who won't say yes. Therefore, anyone they ask will say yes.


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01-30-2016 10:43 AM
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Post: #56
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
Would be interesting to know which CUSA schools want to expand.

I can think of only one rational reason to expand...to avoid neck-and-neck races with the Sun Belt in the conference rankings every year. Of course CUSA has proven they don't expand rationally so that doesn't mean anything.
01-30-2016 10:46 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 10:43 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:40 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:29 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We would be gone tomorrow if they called today. So would everyone else in the league. No big deal and nothing personal.


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It all depends on the university president. They don't all think alike. If you find someone who is nearing retirement and isn't particularly worried about his future career.....he might just follow the financials and the cost-benefit and buck the Prisoner's Dilemma.

You have to remember that we just had a university president decide to not only leave CUSA...but disband their football program. University presidents do not always behave as fans anticipate.

Everyone is making blanket statements that "nobody would leave anymore because of the cost-benefit"...or "everyone would leave immediately". People like to make everything black and white and simple. Even when they aren't.

They aren't going to ask someone who won't say yes. Therefore, anyone they ask will say yes.


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The whole basis of this entire discussion is the Prisoner's Dilemma. In that context your statement makes no sense.
01-30-2016 10:47 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #58
RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 10:46 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Would be interesting to know which CUSA schools want to expand.

I can think of only one rational reason to expand...to avoid neck-and-neck races with the Sun Belt in the conference rankings every year. Of course CUSA has proven they don't expand rationally so that doesn't mean anything.

I doubt any of them actually want to expand. I think they are going to say this every single year in order to maintain the perception of the pecking order and keep the Prisoner's Dilemma going.

If they did expand to 16 then the very next year they'd release a statement saying that they were considering expansion to 18 in order to keep the SBC talking about getting "promoted" to CUSA...perpetually.

Bankowsky kept floating it....their new commissioner is now floating it. It's a thing.
01-30-2016 10:53 AM
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CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 10:47 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:43 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:40 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:29 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We would be gone tomorrow if they called today. So would everyone else in the league. No big deal and nothing personal.


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It all depends on the university president. They don't all think alike. If you find someone who is nearing retirement and isn't particularly worried about his future career.....he might just follow the financials and the cost-benefit and buck the Prisoner's Dilemma.

You have to remember that we just had a university president decide to not only leave CUSA...but disband their football program. University presidents do not always behave as fans anticipate.

Everyone is making blanket statements that "nobody would leave anymore because of the cost-benefit"...or "everyone would leave immediately". People like to make everything black and white and simple. Even when they aren't.

They aren't going to ask someone who won't say yes. Therefore, anyone they ask will say yes.


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The whole basis of this entire discussion is the Prisoner's Dilemma. In that context your statement makes no sense.


I know you're a rally the troops guy, but do you think we will ever get where we continually say we want to be of we never get out of the Sun Belt?

You used to be a Pig fan too before you came around. I will not give up the fight on this battle either!


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01-30-2016 11:12 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: CUSA Talks Expansion
(01-30-2016 11:12 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:47 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:43 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:40 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:29 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We would be gone tomorrow if they called today. So would everyone else in the league. No big deal and nothing personal.


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It all depends on the university president. They don't all think alike. If you find someone who is nearing retirement and isn't particularly worried about his future career.....he might just follow the financials and the cost-benefit and buck the Prisoner's Dilemma.

You have to remember that we just had a university president decide to not only leave CUSA...but disband their football program. University presidents do not always behave as fans anticipate.

Everyone is making blanket statements that "nobody would leave anymore because of the cost-benefit"...or "everyone would leave immediately". People like to make everything black and white and simple. Even when they aren't.

They aren't going to ask someone who won't say yes. Therefore, anyone they ask will say yes.


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The whole basis of this entire discussion is the Prisoner's Dilemma. In that context your statement makes no sense.


I know you're a rally the troops guy, but do you think we will ever get where we continually say we want to be of we never get out of the Sun Belt?

You used to be a Pig fan too before you came around. I will not give up the fight on this battle either!


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There are already a whole lot of SBC fans who like what the SBC is more than what CUSA is. But they still would choose to leave because of lingering perception, pecking order, and fear. That's a stupid situation. I have no idea why you feel like that's something worth fighting to maintain permanently.

And yes, the goal is to be in a conference where everyone prefers to stay. Because in the end....most or all of us are NEVER going to be invited to CUSA. Some of those who think they are....ain't. And they are wasting their time instead of building the house they actually live in.
01-30-2016 11:32 AM
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