The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-02-2015 03:55 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 08:18 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 05:06 PM)wmutkelaw Wrote:  Oddly, if Fleck is offered a new deal, and stays put for a couple cycles, perhaps we will have the stability.

it always gets laughed at, but perhaps WMU is trying to posture it's way out of the MAC and into a different conference...granted the budget increases for the other sports will have to happen. I dislike the MAC b/c it joins us with the likes of emu and cmu...WMU is a far superior school to emu/cmu (both essentially junior colleges with dorms).

Disagree. The only school that doesn't belong in the MAC is EMU. The rest of the MAC schools are on par with each other overall in academics and athletics. Let's not turn into NIU fans with the ridiculous talk of jumping to a "better" conference.

You're full of it today aren't you? EMU who won the Jacoby award last year and the Cartwright award the year before doesn't belong in the MAC?
The same EMU that in a regular season with WMU in men's basketball usually ends up with 1-1. You apparently miss the other MAC championships EMU wins like in track, cross country and swimming on a consistent basis. You're not a bronco you're an a**. but hey learn to beat schools like Stephen Austin in men's hoops on your way out of the MAC will you?

I was speaking more on an academic basis.

And that's the first thing I've said about EMU in a long time. Not sure if you're confusing me with someone else?

The "Kick EMU Out" subject makes an appearance by someone on the main MAC board once in a while, but would rather it not sprout up here. Doesn't reflect well, and it's too much kicking a program when it's down. I'd rather support them (except when they play us, of course).

For the record, I don't want to kick EMU out of the MAC. Perhaps my statements were misunderstood. I'm saying if I had to choose a university to drop, my first thought would be EMU because of their status as a regional university as opposed to the rest of the schools in the MAC that are all national universities.

I actually want to see EMU do well in football like they do well in all other sports. It would be better for the conference. I hate seeing annual bottom-feeders in any conference.


But I agree Motown, let's not turn this into an EMU thread.

No worries, my post was more general speaking anyhow (not directed toward you). There was another thread recently that was more EMU focused.

(12-02-2015 10:51 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  No worries, my post was more general speaking anyhow (not directed toward you). There was another thread recently that was more EMU focused.

I likely need to slow my roll, or is it role?

I think EMU would be awesome in the Horizon or Mid-Con...whatever they call themselves...Valpo/UDM/Oakland/Cleveland State, etc...those would be great schools for EMU to rival.

Quote:I think EMU would be awesome in the Horizon or Mid-Con...whatever they call themselves...Valpo/UDM/Oakland/Cleveland State, etc...those would be great schools for EMU to rival.

Yeah, but they don't have that for football. But for basketball if totally kicked out of MAC, sure.

Most likely they'd join the Pioneer League conference for football that has some mid-westerners and isn't an FCS power or anything -- Butler, Campbell, Davidson, Dayton, Drake, Jacksonville, Marist, Morehead, San Diego, Valpo.

(12-02-2015 05:17 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:I think EMU would be awesome in the Horizon or Mid-Con...whatever they call themselves...Valpo/UDM/Oakland/Cleveland State, etc...those would be great schools for EMU to rival.

Yeah, but they don't have that for football. But for basketball if totally kicked out of MAC, sure.

Most likely they'd join the Pioneer League conference for football that has some mid-westerners and isn't an FCS power or anything -- Butler, Campbell, Davidson, Dayton, Drake, Jacksonville, Marist, Morehead, San Diego, Valpo.

Isn't the pioneer league non-scholly?

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

(12-02-2015 09:13 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

I think NIU fits in the MAC very well academically and in athletics. I like our football competition in the MAC West. Our bball team has been down a long time, but it's now showing some promise to be competitive the next few years. I think the main reason NIU fans want to move up is because we have had 5-6 real good seasons in football and we are losing attendance every year in football. We have peaked out in MAC football and we have nothing to show for it. We have no rivalry teams in the MAC and we are not located close to anyone. Except for diehards, no one wants to come out to see even very good MAC teams or our weak OOC teams. What's going to happen when we start losing more. And weekday games are even worse. If we were in Michigan or Ohio, i think our attendance would be better and most fans would like to stay in the MAC. But fans think the only way to improve attendance, is to move to a 'better' football conference and the opponents will help draw fans.

Quote:Isn't the pioneer league non-scholly?

Maybe, dunno. If so, EMU would probably be "out" (or "in" if they oddly decided to radically change things). But point being, their only regional option for D1AA/FCS football would be in the Missouri Valley conference (better for Bball than MAC), or Ohio Valley Conference. Or independent (there's only 1 Independent FCS team right now).

Quote:I think NIU fits in the MAC very well academically and in athletics.

I agree. CUSA isn't any better for football & basketball. Arguments can be made that they're budding for the future in football as their best teams left to the ACC & AAC, but their newer Sun Belt & FCS imports are growing and set to grow... but that remains to be seen if they'll end up better than the MAC like they used to be. They're just an upgraded Sun Belt that won't really expand any more due to being filled up, and teams won't go to the AAC unless the filled-up AAC loses teams to the P5 conference(s) like B12.

Quote:We have peaked out in MAC football and we have nothing to show for it.

I agree NIU has peaked in the MAC, in terms of being total-dominant, but that's to be expected, IMO. However what should be expected is that they be a MAC West title contender 9 out of 10 years, and have winning seasons basically every year thru thick & thin.

But NIU does have something to show for it. BCS Bowl game. Should have been 2, but Matt Johnson & BGSU ruined that for undefeated NIU a couple years back. There's something to show for it. Dominance, etc made NIU recognizable as a real mid-major force. Will help carry them thru years like this (8-5; assuming loss to BGSU in MACC) -- and don't have to be super-dominant all the time to be respected outside the midwest.

Quote:If we were in Michigan or Ohio, i think our attendance would be better and most fans would like to stay in the MAC.

But you'd also have a lot of Ohio State & Michigan & Michigan State fans caring less about the games. :) But I understand your point. NIU fans aren't caring, but I think the lack of power P5 football teams in the state is countered by the lack of enthusiasm in the state. Everything centered around Chicago. Maybe if NIU had their football stadium in Chicago, there'd be more fans.

Quote: But fans think the only way to improve attendance, is to move to a 'better' football conference and the opponents will help draw fans.

It would only help, but at the end of the day, the same problem would be there in lacking. If you kept the wheels churning, and let's say 2 AAC teams leave to the B12, and AAC takes Marshall & NIU -- sure, that could only be for the better. More $$ returns for football & Definitely basketball games would cover more travel costs and then some... and thus more $$ available to draw more fans in. However, what I would see instead of struggling to get 20k fans -- would be more a struggle to get 30k fans. At the end of the day, it's not like it's Easy for any AAC team to get 30k fans on a mid-season/non-homecoming game anyway.

Attendance would increase, but that same problem would be there. It'd just bump things up a bit. You'd basically be sitting where Ohio is now in attendance when doing that, IMO.

(12-02-2015 10:51 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  No worries, my post was more general speaking anyhow (not directed toward you). There was another thread recently that was more EMU focused.

You mean misfocused correct? The anti EMU bias on this board and ignorance of the school and the facts ie academics, athletic academics MAC athletic awards and non football championships is truly amazing. And let me remind the readers of this board it wasn't that long ago that WMU was the bottom feeder in MAC football and EMU and WMU played against each other in football was a .500 affair just as it is today with men's basketball.

(12-02-2015 09:13 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

Marshall in Conference USA 2005-2012 = 40-57. That's "struggling," certainly compared to what they had done in MAC.

Doc Holliday has gotten it going last three years but the makeup of the league has changed dramatically too.

(12-03-2015 12:37 AM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:13 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

I think NIU fits in the MAC very well academically and in athletics. I like our football competition in the MAC West. Our bball team has been down a long time, but it's now showing some promise to be competitive the next few years. I think the main reason NIU fans want to move up is because we have had 5-6 real good seasons in football and we are losing attendance every year in football. We have peaked out in MAC football and we have nothing to show for it. We have no rivalry teams in the MAC and we are not located close to anyone. Except for diehards, no one wants to come out to see even very good MAC teams or our weak OOC teams. What's going to happen when we start losing more. And weekday games are even worse. If we were in Michigan or Ohio, i think our attendance would be better and most fans would like to stay in the MAC. But fans think the only way to improve attendance, is to move to a 'better' football conference and the opponents will help draw fans.

Personally I think the MAC needs to look to add schools from the group of Northern Iowa/Illinois State/Southern IL. I think not only would any add to the BBall strength they might become rivals to NIU to boost attendance of all involved.

If we could add 2 of them and move a West School East. Like Toledo. It might even the overall strength of the conference as well.

(12-03-2015 08:22 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:13 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 07:09 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  People forget how NIU trotted off to the Big West in the '90s and came limping back.

Marshall went on to supposedly bigger and better things, has struggled in C-USA.

Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

Marshall in Conference USA 2005-2012 = 40-57. That's "struggling," certainly compared to what they had done in MAC.

Doc Holliday has gotten it going last three years.

I think getting busted for cheating took a toll on them even more then the move to CUSA or atleast helped with the fall. Just my opinion though.

It's no coincidence that Marshall's record jumped starting in 2013. When CUSA's upper crust teams moved to the new AAC and CUSA had to backfill with Sun Belt teams, it opened Marshall's door for better W/L records.

(12-03-2015 08:45 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  It's no coincidence that Marshall's record jumped starting in 2013. When CUSA's upper crust teams moved to the new AAC and CUSA had to backfill with Sun Belt teams, it opened Marshall's door for better W/L records.

That, former FBS teams, and two start-ups (Charlotte, UTSA). Plus they got West Virginia off the schedule.

(12-03-2015 08:30 AM)Chibronco Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 12:37 AM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:13 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:02 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  Stop with the facts. Stop it I say!

"Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

I think NIU fits in the MAC very well academically and in athletics. I like our football competition in the MAC West. Our bball team has been down a long time, but it's now showing some promise to be competitive the next few years. I think the main reason NIU fans want to move up is because we have had 5-6 real good seasons in football and we are losing attendance every year in football. We have peaked out in MAC football and we have nothing to show for it. We have no rivalry teams in the MAC and we are not located close to anyone. Except for diehards, no one wants to come out to see even very good MAC teams or our weak OOC teams. What's going to happen when we start losing more. And weekday games are even worse. If we were in Michigan or Ohio, i think our attendance would be better and most fans would like to stay in the MAC. But fans think the only way to improve attendance, is to move to a 'better' football conference and the opponents will help draw fans.

Personally I think the MAC needs to look to add schools from the group of Northern Iowa/Illinois State/Southern IL. I think not only would any add to the BBall strength they might become rivals to NIU to boost attendance of all involved.

If we could add 2 of them and move a West School East. Like Toledo. It might even the overall strength of the conference as well.

Don't see SIU or ISU dropping down to the MAC in hoops. Stepping up in FB is an unnecessary drain of revenue. FB eventually will divided into the super elite class and the want a be's. $ is king and a WMU can't compete financially. It's a pipe dream.

(12-03-2015 01:22 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 08:30 AM)Chibronco Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 12:37 AM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:13 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 09:06 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  "Struggled?"

What's your definition of struggling?

2015: 9-3
2014: 13-1
2013: 10-4

My comment was re NIU. Big time, big move, big fail. Personally know Jerry Pettibone (HC at NIU) at the time.

I think NIU fits in the MAC very well academically and in athletics. I like our football competition in the MAC West. Our bball team has been down a long time, but it's now showing some promise to be competitive the next few years. I think the main reason NIU fans want to move up is because we have had 5-6 real good seasons in football and we are losing attendance every year in football. We have peaked out in MAC football and we have nothing to show for it. We have no rivalry teams in the MAC and we are not located close to anyone. Except for diehards, no one wants to come out to see even very good MAC teams or our weak OOC teams. What's going to happen when we start losing more. And weekday games are even worse. If we were in Michigan or Ohio, i think our attendance would be better and most fans would like to stay in the MAC. But fans think the only way to improve attendance, is to move to a 'better' football conference and the opponents will help draw fans.

Personally I think the MAC needs to look to add schools from the group of Northern Iowa/Illinois State/Southern IL. I think not only would any add to the BBall strength they might become rivals to NIU to boost attendance of all involved.

If we could add 2 of them and move a West School East. Like Toledo. It might even the overall strength of the conference as well.

Don't see SIU or ISU dropping down to the MAC in hoops. Stepping up in FB is an unnecessary drain of revenue. FB eventually will divided into the super elite class and the want a be's. $ is king and a WMU can't compete financially. It's a pipe dream.

I see more a 3 way split. Say:

1-25
26-50
Everybody else

It a worthy goal to try for that 40-50 area. That is doable with an Elite effort.