They were also a fumble at the goal line (which looked from several angles that he crossed) from going into the half tied. The first half was very even, the second half, specifically until the last 4 minutes, is where we dominated.

(10-08-2015 10:18 AM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 07:28 AM)moehler Wrote:  I don't know about more talented than App or GS, first of all, this is the same App team last year that went down to A-State and dominated the game from start to finish, I watched that game, Apps talent was as good, or better at many positions, and they had their all world qb playing that game. As far as a favorite in the App game, you obviously haven't been to a game in Boone, we are very, very tough to beat us at home, if we make it to that game without anymore losses, (going to be a challenge with GS and ULM waiting for us), or even just one loss to one of those teams, we still will be favored in the A-State game. Not saying they cant beat us, should be a really close game, first to admit A-State is a quality team, that if we don't play our best, A-State certainly can win the game, but your comment about them having superior talent, na,, ain't buying it.

No comment on the "debate" but A-State was in control of that game in the first half and was a first down away from going to the locker room up 20-6.

Qtr Time Scoring Play V-H
1st 08:28 ASU - Knighten, Fredi 1 yd TD RUSH (KICK by Ferguson, Luke), 9-81 3:04 0-7
1st 06:22 ASU - Taylor, B. 38 yd TD PUNT 0-13
2nd 13:59 APP - Cox, Marcus 1 yd TD RUSH 9-80 4:23 6-13
2nd 07:10 ASU - Houston, Tres 12 yd TD PASS from Knighten, Fredi (KICK by Ferguson, Luke), 3-31 0:46 6-20
2nd 00:05 APP - Meadors, S. 24 yd TD PASS from Lamb, Taylor (KICK by Critcher, B.), 4-37 0:31 13-20


https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf9/2977069.pdf

No debate, that A-State was a big favorite in the game is a fact. No one, including the guys in Vegas had this game close.

Or that everyone associated with the school had already started celebrating their impending 9 win season after the USA. Even with that the game should have been over by halftime, but they just forgot to tell AppSt that.

That App won, and a few days later TxSt are also facts.

I would debate everyone associated with A-State who have used injuries in the DL as an excuse for the late season collapse. I say you lost because of the play of your offense, who should have outscored both with ease.

This year, because the defense is playing well, the lack of productivity by their offense is more obvious, but it was there last year.

They can look at Memphis and see what they are suppose to be doing, outscoring people, which you can do if your qb performs, and theirs has not.

(10-08-2015 09:35 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

The A-State "talent", whatever that is exactly, seems to show up on All- Sun belt teams in relatively high proportions.

Depth is tough when you change systems and coordinators so frequently, and the coaches have different recruiting priorities and there is associated additional attrition.

But, stAte has already lost 3 defensive starters for the year in 2015, and the depth is showing up on defense - but you probably haven't heard about that, because your little narrative "everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly" is BS.

If I am wrong about that, please point me to just some injuries to specific players that have been pointed out as the reason for failure by stAte fans.

(10-08-2015 12:50 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  The A-State "talent", whatever that is exactly, seems to show up on All- Sun belt teams in relatively high proportions.

Depth is tough when you change systems and coordinators so frequently, and the coaches have different recruiting priorities and there is associated additional attrition.

But, stAte has already lost 3 defensive starters for the year in 2015, and the depth is showing up on defense - but you probably haven't heard about that, because your little narrative "everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly" is BS.

If I am wrong about that, please point me to just some injuries to specific players that have been pointed out as the reason for failure by stAte fans.

Everytime I read something about why Arkansas State is losing, it is because the "injury bug". Going back to last year and then getting dismantled by a good Toledo team, it was because of injuries.

All-Sun Belt teams should be based on production but at the current time, much of it is based on Arkansas State's name. I've watched almost all of each game you've played and the talent that is spoken of isn't any better from what I see out of Georgia Southern or ULM. I'd even venture a guess that based on what i've watched this year, Georgia Southern has more talent at almost every position than Arkansas State does.

It could be scheme, or something else, but I haven't been as impressed as others seem to be. For this season alone I also have Texas State, USA, and Troy ranked above both stAte and ULL.

No narrative here. I haven't read much on you guys other than what you post on here, and I post what I see from games.

(10-08-2015 06:47 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 06:42 AM)SBEagle Wrote:  You were the one that initially said you were "paid to know", he was quoting you. He never said anything about best team. Pay attention, you went down the rabbit hole with your paid opinion on who has the most talent.

That is correct, and A-State has the most talent roster of players in the SBC, but he was obviously focusing on performance at the end of his post.

No, I was obviously focusing on the fact that there is insufficient data for you or anybody else to state FACTUALLY who has the most "talented team." You have an opinion, and that's all it is. Maybe it's more informed than some others, but maybe it has it's own bias. There is no more credibility in be a "star counter" than someone who spews out ranking data.

(10-08-2015 12:12 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:35 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:12 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:35 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

I understand the flow of the game against Idaho and that Arkansas State likely laid off toward the end of the game, but they only won that game 49-35, at home. A 14 point margin with such a talent gap, as it has been told on here, is a problem. Just because comparing players without seeing the teams play against each other is nearly meaningless, Ga Southern beat that same Idaho team by two more touchdowns after traveling from coast to coast.

Sure the talent is there, but after watching each team against a common opponent, Southern appeared to be the more talented team at almost every level.

(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:12 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:35 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

My intuition tells me that Arkansas State has overrated talent and probably shouldn't have gotten as many people on the All SunBelt Team than they did. I thought it was a little Arkansas State heavy before the season. And when I stated that before the beginning of the season, similar to what ericsaid said (haha), the reason I got that they were bad on defense last year was because of injuries. Now maybe their defensive talent is great, but allowing 37 points to Toledo and 35 to Idaho tells a different story.

(10-08-2015 01:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:12 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:35 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

I understand the flow of the game against Idaho and that Arkansas State likely laid off toward the end of the game, but they only won that game 49-35, at home. A 14 point margin with such a talent gap, as it has been told on here, is a problem. Just because comparing players without seeing the teams play against each other is nearly meaningless, Ga Southern beat that same Idaho team by two more touchdowns after traveling from coast to coast.

Sure the talent is there, but after watching each team against a common opponent, Southern appeared to be the more talented team at almost every level.

I'm sure several of the things you mentioned are part of the reasons AppSt and GaSo are considered by most credible sources to be the two best teams in the SBC right now.

All I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC.

I attribute almost all their problems to the fact they are again dealing with the coulda, woulda, and shoulda that comes with breaking in a new coaching staff.

I did not buy the injury excuse.

If you watched their game with Idaho ( actually I prefer to call it a scrimmage, and a rather sloppy one at that) as you imply you did, you know that A-State could have score 70+, or held them to under 20 if they had wanted too. That was the same Idaho team that played GaSo mind you, they were a little short handed and banged up against A-State.

A-State helped by playing the worse qb in FBS football, and running the ball.

Everyone that saw the Mizzo games knows they should have won that game, but not sure what that means either. Well I know the credible sources I mentioned above that are good at ranking teams do agree that they are a lot better than any team ASU will play going forward. A lot better. Don't know what that means either, other than on any Saturday( or Tuesday).........right. That's what I like about college football, and why I only predict overall records.

Again, all I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC (and according to those that create such list the most all-sbc caliber players), it's their coaches job to make them the best team.

(10-08-2015 01:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:50 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  The A-State "talent", whatever that is exactly, seems to show up on All- Sun belt teams in relatively high proportions.

Depth is tough when you change systems and coordinators so frequently, and the coaches have different recruiting priorities and there is associated additional attrition.

But, stAte has already lost 3 defensive starters for the year in 2015, and the depth is showing up on defense - but you probably haven't heard about that, because your little narrative "everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly" is BS.

If I am wrong about that, please point me to just some injuries to specific players that have been pointed out as the reason for failure by stAte fans.

Everytime I read something about why Arkansas State is losing, it is because the "injury bug". Going back to last year and then getting dismantled by a good Toledo team, it was because of injuries.

Please provide links me to the posts that blamed this year's Toledo loss on injuries. I did not see any of the posts by A-State guys saying stAte only lost @ #24 Toledo because of injuries. I want to set them straight.

Thanks in advance.

Idaho was starting their backup freshman QB against Arkie State as well.

(10-09-2015 01:51 AM)eagleskins Wrote:  Idaho was starting their backup freshman QB against Arkie State as well.

Did you notice who was starting for stAte?

(10-08-2015 09:18 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:50 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  The A-State "talent", whatever that is exactly, seems to show up on All- Sun belt teams in relatively high proportions.

Depth is tough when you change systems and coordinators so frequently, and the coaches have different recruiting priorities and there is associated additional attrition.

But, stAte has already lost 3 defensive starters for the year in 2015, and the depth is showing up on defense - but you probably haven't heard about that, because your little narrative "everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly" is BS.

If I am wrong about that, please point me to just some injuries to specific players that have been pointed out as the reason for failure by stAte fans.

Everytime I read something about why Arkansas State is losing, it is because the "injury bug". Going back to last year and then getting dismantled by a good Toledo team, it was because of injuries.

Please provide links me to the posts that blamed this year's Toledo loss on injuries. I did not see any of the posts by A-State guys saying stAte only lost @ #24 Toledo because of injuries. I want to set them straight.

Thanks in advance.

If Knighten were starting, one wouldn't be bashed for assuming that a few TD's would have been taken off the board for Toledo as they were directly related to turnovers. My point is, that talent is just who is starting but the quality depth you build. It obviously isn't there at quarterback.

You see JP Caruso come in for App and there isn't a significant drop-off in the level of play, and he actually runs the option better than Lamb. State's back up does nothing at the level of the starter.

(10-08-2015 03:36 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:12 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:35 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

I understand the flow of the game against Idaho and that Arkansas State likely laid off toward the end of the game, but they only won that game 49-35, at home. A 14 point margin with such a talent gap, as it has been told on here, is a problem. Just because comparing players without seeing the teams play against each other is nearly meaningless, Ga Southern beat that same Idaho team by two more touchdowns after traveling from coast to coast.

Sure the talent is there, but after watching each team against a common opponent, Southern appeared to be the more talented team at almost every level.

I'm sure several of the things you mentioned are part of the reasons AppSt and GaSo are considered by most credible sources to be the two best teams in the SBC right now.

All I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC.

I attribute almost all their problems to the fact they are again dealing with the coulda, woulda, and shoulda that comes with breaking in a new coaching staff.

I did not buy the injury excuse.

If you watched their game with Idaho ( actually I prefer to call it a scrimmage, and a rather sloppy one at that) as you imply you did, you know that A-State could have score 70+, or held them to under 20 if they had wanted too. That was the same Idaho team that played GaSo mind you, they were a little short handed and banged up against A-State.

A-State helped by playing the worse qb in FBS football, and running the ball.

Everyone that saw the Mizzo games knows they should have won that game, but not sure what that means either. Well I know the credible sources I mentioned above that are good at ranking teams do agree that they are a lot better than any team ASU will play going forward. A lot better. Don't know what that means either, other than on any Saturday( or Tuesday).........right. That's what I like about college football, and why I only predict overall records.

Again, all I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC (and according to those that create such list the most all-sbc caliber players), it's their coaches job to make them the best team.

All Mizzou should've done in that game is run a QB draw, option left, option right. That's all Mauk is good for and the game the week after the State game showed that they aren't a top 25 team. If Knighten finishes the game, State probably wins, but to see the drop-off in play when he went out suggests that the team isn't as "talented" as you claim.

(10-09-2015 01:00 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 03:36 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:12 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  So what can you tell us about how their recruits stack up with App State and Georgia Southern's? Considering these two schools clearly have talent, and App beat stAte, and Southern routed App.

Just wondering. If it's not a talent issue it must be a coaching issue. Also, considering the amount of talent brought in, when does that depth begin to show? It seems that everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly. If you have so much talent, you should be in a plug and play situation. (Except for Knighten)

Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

I understand the flow of the game against Idaho and that Arkansas State likely laid off toward the end of the game, but they only won that game 49-35, at home. A 14 point margin with such a talent gap, as it has been told on here, is a problem. Just because comparing players without seeing the teams play against each other is nearly meaningless, Ga Southern beat that same Idaho team by two more touchdowns after traveling from coast to coast.

Sure the talent is there, but after watching each team against a common opponent, Southern appeared to be the more talented team at almost every level.

I'm sure several of the things you mentioned are part of the reasons AppSt and GaSo are considered by most credible sources to be the two best teams in the SBC right now.

All I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC.

I attribute almost all their problems to the fact they are again dealing with the coulda, woulda, and shoulda that comes with breaking in a new coaching staff.

I did not buy the injury excuse.

If you watched their game with Idaho ( actually I prefer to call it a scrimmage, and a rather sloppy one at that) as you imply you did, you know that A-State could have score 70+, or held them to under 20 if they had wanted too. That was the same Idaho team that played GaSo mind you, they were a little short handed and banged up against A-State.

A-State helped by playing the worse qb in FBS football, and running the ball.

Everyone that saw the Mizzo games knows they should have won that game, but not sure what that means either. Well I know the credible sources I mentioned above that are good at ranking teams do agree that they are a lot better than any team ASU will play going forward. A lot better. Don't know what that means either, other than on any Saturday( or Tuesday).........right. That's what I like about college football, and why I only predict overall records.

Again, all I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC (and according to those that create such list the most all-sbc caliber players), it's their coaches job to make them the best team.

All Mizzou should've done in that game is run a QB draw, option left, option right. That's all Mauk is good for and the game the week after the State game showed that they aren't a top 25 team. If Knighten finishes the game, State probably wins, but to see the drop-off in play when he went out suggests that the team isn't as "talented" as you claim.

I really don't have a gauge of their talent other than they have the most talented roster of players in the SBC. I was not asked to compare their roster talent to teams outside the SBC.

There has been a huge drop off in performance from their #1 to #2 qb, and it has hurt them that the #2 guy has been the qb for most of the year. If their starter had not been hurt they would probably be 3-2, and I'm not sure they would not have had a good shot at Toledo.

People say USC, and Mizzou are not that good, and that may be true, but they are a lot better, a lot more talented, than any team A-State will play the rest of the year,and you cab probably say the same about Toledo.

If they can get even average production from their qb going forward (and remember many felt going into the season their qb was a strong candidate for POY in the sbc), they should a lot better than they were the first 5 games, and they are currently considered by most to be 3rd best sbc team as is (Sagarin does not have a huge differences in their rating).

That their OL matches up better against sbc defenses than they did against USC, Mizzou, and Toledo ( and they were not bad against these teams) should really help their qb a lot. Not sure they will just be able to line up, and run the ball like they did again Idaho, but i look for their run game to be one of the best in the SBC when all is said and done.

I think they have a good chance of meeting my 8 win +/- 1 prediction, if their qb says healthy.

(10-09-2015 02:58 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-09-2015 01:00 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 03:36 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Based on the roster comparisons I did I would say the top 3-4 sbc teams are all able to put together very comparable 2-deep depth charts with the rosters they have, barring a lot of injuries. A-State just has the talent to have more star players in their 2-deep ( as was evident in the pre-season all sbc selections) than the other sbc teams.

As for performance there is not doubt whatsoever that A-States biggest problem the last several seasons has been coaching..............way to many of them, and that is it.

I realize that people here act like the coaching turnover is a non-issue, but more 'credible' sources than the posters here would disagree because it is a HUGE issue( the ole elephant in the room). In fact they thank it is down right amassing they have done as well as they have, and goes counter to all the conventional wisdom.

How did they manage to do it.............more talent than most of the teams they play.

Toward the end of the Roberts era the University (not just the football coaches) made a concerted effort to upgrade the talent on the football team( wanted to invest the profits from winning with talented players, as opposed to investing too win), and were willing to let the coaches take some chances, and as a result Freeze ( who was a key player in recruiting his one year as their OC) inherited a talented roster of players.

Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin and now Taylor (i mean Anderson), are all cut from the same cloth when it comes to recruiting, they are obsessive recruiters, plus the University has focused on upgrading their program with the focus on what the players want.

Not going to discuss that AppSt win, they won, and it was a major embarrassment (at the time) to the A-State football program, as was the loss to TxSt.

This far this year they have not lost to a team they are more talented than, and if they don't going forward, they will not lose another regular season game. They lost to three such teams last year, and beat one team that was more talented than them.

I understand the flow of the game against Idaho and that Arkansas State likely laid off toward the end of the game, but they only won that game 49-35, at home. A 14 point margin with such a talent gap, as it has been told on here, is a problem. Just because comparing players without seeing the teams play against each other is nearly meaningless, Ga Southern beat that same Idaho team by two more touchdowns after traveling from coast to coast.

Sure the talent is there, but after watching each team against a common opponent, Southern appeared to be the more talented team at almost every level.

I'm sure several of the things you mentioned are part of the reasons AppSt and GaSo are considered by most credible sources to be the two best teams in the SBC right now.

All I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC.

I attribute almost all their problems to the fact they are again dealing with the coulda, woulda, and shoulda that comes with breaking in a new coaching staff.

I did not buy the injury excuse.

If you watched their game with Idaho ( actually I prefer to call it a scrimmage, and a rather sloppy one at that) as you imply you did, you know that A-State could have score 70+, or held them to under 20 if they had wanted too. That was the same Idaho team that played GaSo mind you, they were a little short handed and banged up against A-State.

A-State helped by playing the worse qb in FBS football, and running the ball.

Everyone that saw the Mizzo games knows they should have won that game, but not sure what that means either. Well I know the credible sources I mentioned above that are good at ranking teams do agree that they are a lot better than any team ASU will play going forward. A lot better. Don't know what that means either, other than on any Saturday( or Tuesday).........right. That's what I like about college football, and why I only predict overall records.

Again, all I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC (and according to those that create such list the most all-sbc caliber players), it's their coaches job to make them the best team.

All Mizzou should've done in that game is run a QB draw, option left, option right. That's all Mauk is good for and the game the week after the State game showed that they aren't a top 25 team. If Knighten finishes the game, State probably wins, but to see the drop-off in play when he went out suggests that the team isn't as "talented" as you claim.

I really don't have a gauge of their talent other than they have the most talented roster of players in the SBC. I was not asked to compare their roster talent to teams outside the SBC.

There has been a huge drop off in performance from their #1 to #2 qb, and it has hurt them that the #2 guy has been the qb for most of the year. If their starter had not been hurt they would probably be 3-2, and I'm not sure they would not have had a good shot at Toledo.

People say USC, and Mizzou are not that good, and that may be true, but they are a lot better, a lot more talented, than any team A-State will play the rest of the year,and you cab probably say the same about Toledo.

If they can get even average production from their qb going forward (and remember many felt going into the season their qb was a strong candidate for POY in the sbc), they should a lot better than they were the first 5 games, and they are currently considered by most to be 3rd best sbc team as is (Sagarin does not have a huge differences in their rating).

That their OL matches up better against sbc defenses than they did against USC, Mizzou, and Toledo ( and they were not bad against these teams) should really help their qb a lot. Not sure they will just be able to line up, and run the ball like they did again Idaho, but i look for their run game to be one of the best in the SBC when all is said and done.

I think they have a good chance of meeting my 8 win +/- 1 prediction, if their qb says healthy.

Mizzou beat Connecticut 9-6. If the Sun Belt's top teams can't be compared to Connecticut then there are problems. The point I was trying to make about the Toledo game is that 21 of Toledo's 37 points can be attributed directly to the quarterback for State. It really is hard to believe that Knighten wouldn't have had an impact on offense that would lead to more than 7 points for State and subtract points for Toledo based on turnovers.

My question to you is whether you watch any other Sun Belt teams play. You can look at previous recruiting rankings and who all is on the roster, but the caliber of a player is more than that. It takes the ability to see and evaluate players based on their performance, and without the knowledge of App State, USA, Georgia Southern, and ULL, I'd say your comments relating to State's roster being the most talented in the SBC are more subjective than anything.

(10-09-2015 12:56 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:18 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 12:50 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  The A-State "talent", whatever that is exactly, seems to show up on All- Sun belt teams in relatively high proportions.

Depth is tough when you change systems and coordinators so frequently, and the coaches have different recruiting priorities and there is associated additional attrition.

But, stAte has already lost 3 defensive starters for the year in 2015, and the depth is showing up on defense - but you probably haven't heard about that, because your little narrative "everytime a player goes down, the stAte fans begin to say the bug has hit them and that's why they are performing poorly" is BS.

If I am wrong about that, please point me to just some injuries to specific players that have been pointed out as the reason for failure by stAte fans.

Everytime I read something about why Arkansas State is losing, it is because the "injury bug". Going back to last year and then getting dismantled by a good Toledo team, it was because of injuries.

Please provide links me to the posts that blamed this year's Toledo loss on injuries. I did not see any of the posts by A-State guys saying stAte only lost @ #24 Toledo because of injuries. I want to set them straight.

Thanks in advance.

If Knighten were starting, one wouldn't be bashed for assuming that a few TD's would have been taken off the board for Toledo as they were directly related to turnovers. My point is, that talent is just who is starting but the quality depth you build. It obviously isn't there at quarterback.

You see JP Caruso come in for App and there isn't a significant drop-off in the level of play, and he actually runs the option better than Lamb. State's back up does nothing at the level of the starter.

So I take it you are not going to back your BS statement up with evidence. I figured as much.

(10-09-2015 04:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-09-2015 02:58 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-09-2015 01:00 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 03:36 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 01:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  I understand the flow of the game against Idaho and that Arkansas State likely laid off toward the end of the game, but they only won that game 49-35, at home. A 14 point margin with such a talent gap, as it has been told on here, is a problem. Just because comparing players without seeing the teams play against each other is nearly meaningless, Ga Southern beat that same Idaho team by two more touchdowns after traveling from coast to coast.

Sure the talent is there, but after watching each team against a common opponent, Southern appeared to be the more talented team at almost every level.

I'm sure several of the things you mentioned are part of the reasons AppSt and GaSo are considered by most credible sources to be the two best teams in the SBC right now.

All I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC.

I attribute almost all their problems to the fact they are again dealing with the coulda, woulda, and shoulda that comes with breaking in a new coaching staff.

I did not buy the injury excuse.

If you watched their game with Idaho ( actually I prefer to call it a scrimmage, and a rather sloppy one at that) as you imply you did, you know that A-State could have score 70+, or held them to under 20 if they had wanted too. That was the same Idaho team that played GaSo mind you, they were a little short handed and banged up against A-State.

A-State helped by playing the worse qb in FBS football, and running the ball.

Everyone that saw the Mizzo games knows they should have won that game, but not sure what that means either. Well I know the credible sources I mentioned above that are good at ranking teams do agree that they are a lot better than any team ASU will play going forward. A lot better. Don't know what that means either, other than on any Saturday( or Tuesday).........right. That's what I like about college football, and why I only predict overall records.

Again, all I know is A-State has the most talented roster of players in the SBC (and according to those that create such list the most all-sbc caliber players), it's their coaches job to make them the best team.

All Mizzou should've done in that game is run a QB draw, option left, option right. That's all Mauk is good for and the game the week after the State game showed that they aren't a top 25 team. If Knighten finishes the game, State probably wins, but to see the drop-off in play when he went out suggests that the team isn't as "talented" as you claim.

I really don't have a gauge of their talent other than they have the most talented roster of players in the SBC. I was not asked to compare their roster talent to teams outside the SBC.

There has been a huge drop off in performance from their #1 to #2 qb, and it has hurt them that the #2 guy has been the qb for most of the year. If their starter had not been hurt they would probably be 3-2, and I'm not sure they would not have had a good shot at Toledo.

People say USC, and Mizzou are not that good, and that may be true, but they are a lot better, a lot more talented, than any team A-State will play the rest of the year,and you cab probably say the same about Toledo.

If they can get even average production from their qb going forward (and remember many felt going into the season their qb was a strong candidate for POY in the sbc), they should a lot better than they were the first 5 games, and they are currently considered by most to be 3rd best sbc team as is (Sagarin does not have a huge differences in their rating).

That their OL matches up better against sbc defenses than they did against USC, Mizzou, and Toledo ( and they were not bad against these teams) should really help their qb a lot. Not sure they will just be able to line up, and run the ball like they did again Idaho, but i look for their run game to be one of the best in the SBC when all is said and done.

I think they have a good chance of meeting my 8 win +/- 1 prediction, if their qb says healthy.

Mizzou beat Connecticut 9-6. If the Sun Belt's top teams can't be compared to Connecticut then there are problems. The point I was trying to make about the Toledo game is that 21 of Toledo's 37 points can be attributed directly to the quarterback for State. It really is hard to believe that Knighten wouldn't have had an impact on offense that would lead to more than 7 points for State and subtract points for Toledo based on turnovers.

My question to you is whether you watch any other Sun Belt teams play. You can look at previous recruiting rankings and who all is on the roster, but the caliber of a player is more than that. It takes the ability to see and evaluate players based on their performance, and without the knowledge of App State, USA, Georgia Southern, and ULL, I'd say your comments relating to State's roster being the most talented in the SBC are more subjective than anything.

Well I hope you are not my client, well maybe i don't because you developed the format, and paid me...I'm good.

Just like I don't rank teams, I don't rank players my client does, and i very seldom come across one they don't have a ranking, and a number on. I just do the grunt work, and complete the analysis. The math is tedious, so they wanted someone with a math, and recruiting background, and i had both. They called me i did not call them.

I really enjoy this site (it an others keep me at my computer, and away from the lakes and ocean ) but fans here like fans everywhere go through all kinds of machinations after every game in the season, predicting what one team is going to do against another, using all kinds of logic that is way over my head.

I only cared about how the 8 win +/- 1 prediction was looking, and to be honest my client does not seem care about that at all, but it is included in the report, they just want the analysis done, and in on time.