(10-07-2015 08:05 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  So some of the eastern schools get accused by people on here of having an FCS mentality for not wanting NMSU for all sports.

If the western schools would seriously turn away JMU for football-only membership but fight to keep NMSU or Idaho for football only then that's even worse without question.

It's again a short sighted view to think "oh... JMU is better at football now. Let's get them QUICK!"

Idaho has more history and more name recognition than JMU. Moreover, it's in the West, keeping the divisions (and the power) even.

EDIT: I think one of the reasons some folks blame some of the eastern members (well, their fans anyway) of being FCS minded is because you can't see anything other than the immediate.

Eastern members approving of CCU is definitely seeing further than the immediate.

Idaho has more name recognition in football? Maybe so but it isn't the good kind.

(10-07-2015 09:49 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Eastern members approving of CCU is definitely seeing further than the immediate.

Idaho has more name recognition in football? Maybe so but it isn't the good kind.

Notice one simple thing to what I said: some FANS of Eastern schools.

Some fans of all schools are too focused on next season not long-term.

(10-07-2015 09:41 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 08:05 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  So some of the eastern schools get accused by people on here of having an FCS mentality for not wanting NMSU for all sports.

If the western schools would seriously turn away JMU for football-only membership but fight to keep NMSU or Idaho for football only then that's even worse without question.

It's again a short sighted view to think "oh... JMU is better at football now. Let's get them QUICK!"

Idaho has more history and more name recognition than JMU. Moreover, it's in the West, keeping the divisions (and the power) even.

EDIT: I think one of the reasons some folks blame some of the eastern members (well, their fans anyway) of being FCS minded is because you can't see anything other than the immediate.

I'm sure everyone in the east would approve of adding a western team if there was a team willing and able to join. NMSU is the only possible western candidate at this time, but they're in a different time zone from the nearest member. Since we're talking about football history we all know theirs isn't very good. If you don't want an FCS move-up you're really left with no options.

I'd love to get USM to move from CUSA, but that's not likely either. What do you suggest?

(10-07-2015 10:28 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  I'd love to get USM to move from CUSA, but that's not likely either. What do you suggest?

I'm going to echo what a couple of stAte fans have said:

- Do nothing. Improve our product. Being real: Assuming Idaho, NMSU, & Georgia State continue to struggle (I'm saying they DON'T improve one lick), we still have the horses in this conference to become a top 2 G5 conference.

When you hit that mark and hit it consistently, your tv deal goes up. Your bowl opportunities go up. THEN, you have teams wanting to join us. At that time, you re-evaluate membership of affiliate schools.

That's what you do. It's the simplest and easiest approach.

Besides, kicking an existing team out for an FCS move up that is only an affiliate screams desperation, and the Sun Belt is NOT desperate at this time.

(10-07-2015 10:34 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:28 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  I'd love to get USM to move from CUSA, but that's not likely either. What do you suggest?

I'm going to echo what a couple of stAte fans have said:

- Do nothing. Improve our product. Being real: Assuming Idaho, NMSU, & Georgia State continue to struggle (I'm saying they DON'T improve one lick), we still have the horses in this conference to become a top 2 G5 conference.

When you hit that mark and hit it consistently, your tv deal goes up. Your bowl opportunities go up. THEN, you have teams wanting to join us. At that time, you re-evaluate membership of affiliate schools.

That's what you do. It's the simplest and easiest approach.

Besides, kicking an existing team out for an FCS move up that is only an affiliate screams desperation, and the Sun Belt is NOT desperate at this time.

I'm all for focusing on improvement as we certainly need that as a conference, but I also think we will be looking at 10 football members pretty soon.

I wouldn't rule out anything at this point and time. There's a lot of uneasiness within CUSA over how the new TV contract negotiations are going.

(10-06-2015 10:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:23 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 09:50 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 08:14 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 02:35 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I can't believe anyone here thinks the Dakota schools are even an option given the way Idaho is talked about on this board. If I were NDSU/UND/SDSU/Montana/MSU and even considering a Sun Belt invite I'd assume there'll be a big faction trying to kick me out of the conference at the first sign of a downturn. Thanks but no thanks.

Not trying to kick your school while it's down... But surely you see the on field difference in Idaho and NDSU/UND/SDSU/Montana/MSU...

The problem most have with Idaho is that it's a game MOST fans will not travel to (while there are routinely a couple of thousand fans from other schools traveling to the other conference games), and no wins to help the image of the conference.

If Idaho was winning 7-8-9 games per year, this wouldn't even be a discussion point.

Sure, those schools might look better to you right now, but fundamentally we're all western public universities in sparsely populated areas far outside the Sun Belt footprint, and historically Idaho has been better at football than all of them.

I promise you, all of those schools look at Idaho as a cautionary tale. 20 years ago we were exactly where they are now -- a 1-AA power. And when we moved up, we even got to move into a conference (Big West) that made geographic sense. It wasn't until that conference was pulled out from under us a few years later that things started to go haywire.

The idea that any of those schools would rush to join a conference where they'd be geographic outliers replacing very similar schools kicked out by that same conference is laughable.

So where do you see Idaho in the future? The Sun Belt isn't a good fit, amd the MWC doesn't look like it has plans to expand. I wouldn't be real comfortable if I were an Idaho fan. Same goes for NMSU.

"Not real comfortable" is an understatement. I actually enjoy the Sun Belt but I'm not so sure the feeling is mutual. The MWC would be ideal but we'd need another wave of realignment for that to be a real possibility. There's also been a cockamamie theory lately about the Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho & NMSU forming a new FBS conference using the Big West as a shell -- I would love that, but I doubt it flies for a whole host of reasons.

Honestly? I just want to be able to stay in the game of musical chairs until someone finally lets us sit down. And it makes more sense to drop football altogether than to drop back down to FCS.

I don't mind having you in the SB. I am not fond of affiliate members but App is still in the SoCon for wrestling and App Field Hockey has not conference and needs one. But that feeling aside I am not anti-Idaho. And without affiliate members there would be no SB MSOC.

I just feel bad for Idaho as you are so far away and a shame this is the best situation you have.

(10-07-2015 05:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:23 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 09:50 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 08:14 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  Not trying to kick your school while it's down... But surely you see the on field difference in Idaho and NDSU/UND/SDSU/Montana/MSU...

The problem most have with Idaho is that it's a game MOST fans will not travel to (while there are routinely a couple of thousand fans from other schools traveling to the other conference games), and no wins to help the image of the conference.

If Idaho was winning 7-8-9 games per year, this wouldn't even be a discussion point.

Sure, those schools might look better to you right now, but fundamentally we're all western public universities in sparsely populated areas far outside the Sun Belt footprint, and historically Idaho has been better at football than all of them.

I promise you, all of those schools look at Idaho as a cautionary tale. 20 years ago we were exactly where they are now -- a 1-AA power. And when we moved up, we even got to move into a conference (Big West) that made geographic sense. It wasn't until that conference was pulled out from under us a few years later that things started to go haywire.

The idea that any of those schools would rush to join a conference where they'd be geographic outliers replacing very similar schools kicked out by that same conference is laughable.

So where do you see Idaho in the future? The Sun Belt isn't a good fit, amd the MWC doesn't look like it has plans to expand. I wouldn't be real comfortable if I were an Idaho fan. Same goes for NMSU.

"Not real comfortable" is an understatement. I actually enjoy the Sun Belt but I'm not so sure the feeling is mutual. The MWC would be ideal but we'd need another wave of realignment for that to be a real possibility. There's also been a cockamamie theory lately about the Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho & NMSU forming a new FBS conference using the Big West as a shell -- I would love that, but I doubt it flies for a whole host of reasons.

Honestly? I just want to be able to stay in the game of musical chairs until someone finally lets us sit down. And it makes more sense to drop football altogether than to drop back down to FCS.

I don't mind having you in the SB. I am not fond of affiliate members but App is still in the SoCon for wrestling and App Field Hockey has not conference and needs one. But that feeling aside I am not anti-Idaho. And without affiliate members there would be no SB MSOC.

I just feel bad for Idaho as you are so far away and a shame this is the best situation you have.

APR at Idaho sealed the deal for me. It's one thing to play poorly and be a historically bad performing program, but to also be the worst APR is truly embarrassing.

If we don't focus on building our brand, we will continue to face challenges as a conference. With Idaho and NMSU its a case of addition by subtraction. There are quite a few quality programs from Texas and east that could be added that would improve the league should we want 12 teams. I can think of two football only invites that would come in a heartbeat if we can't agree on additional full members.

(10-07-2015 05:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:23 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 09:50 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 08:14 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  Not trying to kick your school while it's down... But surely you see the on field difference in Idaho and NDSU/UND/SDSU/Montana/MSU...

The problem most have with Idaho is that it's a game MOST fans will not travel to (while there are routinely a couple of thousand fans from other schools traveling to the other conference games), and no wins to help the image of the conference.

If Idaho was winning 7-8-9 games per year, this wouldn't even be a discussion point.

Sure, those schools might look better to you right now, but fundamentally we're all western public universities in sparsely populated areas far outside the Sun Belt footprint, and historically Idaho has been better at football than all of them.

I promise you, all of those schools look at Idaho as a cautionary tale. 20 years ago we were exactly where they are now -- a 1-AA power. And when we moved up, we even got to move into a conference (Big West) that made geographic sense. It wasn't until that conference was pulled out from under us a few years later that things started to go haywire.

The idea that any of those schools would rush to join a conference where they'd be geographic outliers replacing very similar schools kicked out by that same conference is laughable.

So where do you see Idaho in the future? The Sun Belt isn't a good fit, amd the MWC doesn't look like it has plans to expand. I wouldn't be real comfortable if I were an Idaho fan. Same goes for NMSU.

"Not real comfortable" is an understatement. I actually enjoy the Sun Belt but I'm not so sure the feeling is mutual. The MWC would be ideal but we'd need another wave of realignment for that to be a real possibility. There's also been a cockamamie theory lately about the Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho & NMSU forming a new FBS conference using the Big West as a shell -- I would love that, but I doubt it flies for a whole host of reasons.

Honestly? I just want to be able to stay in the game of musical chairs until someone finally lets us sit down. And it makes more sense to drop football altogether than to drop back down to FCS.

I don't mind having you in the SB. I am not fond of affiliate members but App is still in the SoCon for wrestling and App Field Hockey has not conference and needs one. But that feeling aside I am not anti-Idaho. And without affiliate members there would be no SB MSOC.

I just feel bad for Idaho as you are so far away and a shame this is the best situation you have.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to returning to a point where the best reaction our program generates isn't pity. We'll get there.

(10-08-2015 08:18 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 05:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:23 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 09:50 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Sure, those schools might look better to you right now, but fundamentally we're all western public universities in sparsely populated areas far outside the Sun Belt footprint, and historically Idaho has been better at football than all of them.

I promise you, all of those schools look at Idaho as a cautionary tale. 20 years ago we were exactly where they are now -- a 1-AA power. And when we moved up, we even got to move into a conference (Big West) that made geographic sense. It wasn't until that conference was pulled out from under us a few years later that things started to go haywire.

The idea that any of those schools would rush to join a conference where they'd be geographic outliers replacing very similar schools kicked out by that same conference is laughable.

So where do you see Idaho in the future? The Sun Belt isn't a good fit, amd the MWC doesn't look like it has plans to expand. I wouldn't be real comfortable if I were an Idaho fan. Same goes for NMSU.

"Not real comfortable" is an understatement. I actually enjoy the Sun Belt but I'm not so sure the feeling is mutual. The MWC would be ideal but we'd need another wave of realignment for that to be a real possibility. There's also been a cockamamie theory lately about the Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho & NMSU forming a new FBS conference using the Big West as a shell -- I would love that, but I doubt it flies for a whole host of reasons.

Honestly? I just want to be able to stay in the game of musical chairs until someone finally lets us sit down. And it makes more sense to drop football altogether than to drop back down to FCS.

I don't mind having you in the SB. I am not fond of affiliate members but App is still in the SoCon for wrestling and App Field Hockey has not conference and needs one. But that feeling aside I am not anti-Idaho. And without affiliate members there would be no SB MSOC.

I just feel bad for Idaho as you are so far away and a shame this is the best situation you have.

APR at Idaho sealed the deal for me. It's one thing to play poorly and be a historically bad performing program, but to also be the worst APR is truly embarrassing.

If we don't focus on building our brand, we will continue to face challenges as a conference. With Idaho and NMSU its a case of addition by subtraction. There are quite a few quality programs from Texas and east that could be added that would improve the league should we want 12 teams. I can think of two football only invites that would come in a heartbeat if we can't agree on additional full members.

Respectfully--

The APR issue is a bad place to hang your hat. It was a temporary issue caused by massive transfers during the conference loss and coaching change. Petrino immediately fixed the problem and Idaho now has one of the highest APRs in the Sun Belt. Idaho is the highest-ranked academic institution in the Conference.

And we're only a "historically bad performing program" if your memory is only 4 years long. We were a very good program throughout the 80's and 90's and have won 2 bowl games since moving up despite dealing with constant conference turmoil.

(10-08-2015 10:05 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 08:18 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 05:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:23 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  So where do you see Idaho in the future? The Sun Belt isn't a good fit, amd the MWC doesn't look like it has plans to expand. I wouldn't be real comfortable if I were an Idaho fan. Same goes for NMSU.

"Not real comfortable" is an understatement. I actually enjoy the Sun Belt but I'm not so sure the feeling is mutual. The MWC would be ideal but we'd need another wave of realignment for that to be a real possibility. There's also been a cockamamie theory lately about the Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho & NMSU forming a new FBS conference using the Big West as a shell -- I would love that, but I doubt it flies for a whole host of reasons.

Honestly? I just want to be able to stay in the game of musical chairs until someone finally lets us sit down. And it makes more sense to drop football altogether than to drop back down to FCS.

I don't mind having you in the SB. I am not fond of affiliate members but App is still in the SoCon for wrestling and App Field Hockey has not conference and needs one. But that feeling aside I am not anti-Idaho. And without affiliate members there would be no SB MSOC.

I just feel bad for Idaho as you are so far away and a shame this is the best situation you have.

APR at Idaho sealed the deal for me. It's one thing to play poorly and be a historically bad performing program, but to also be the worst APR is truly embarrassing.

If we don't focus on building our brand, we will continue to face challenges as a conference. With Idaho and NMSU its a case of addition by subtraction. There are quite a few quality programs from Texas and east that could be added that would improve the league should we want 12 teams. I can think of two football only invites that would come in a heartbeat if we can't agree on additional full members.

Respectfully--

The APR issue is a bad place to hang your hat. It was a temporary issue caused by massive transfers during the conference loss and coaching change. Petrino immediately fixed the problem and Idaho now has one of the highest APRs in the Sun Belt. Idaho is the highest-ranked academic institution in the Conference.

And we're only a "historically bad performing program" if your memory is only 4 years long. We were a very good program throughout the 80's and 90's and have won 2 bowl games since moving up despite dealing with constant conference turmoil.

I appreciate the additional information, but all I can say is when APR headlines came out last time Idaho was featured, and not for the right reasons. I'm not the only one who thought: "Why did we extend associate membership to these guys again?"

You say it will be different the next time rankings are announced, and that's great but when a program drags the conference strength down both athletically and academically it's time for some soul searching. If Idaho could do anything to improve its viability in the SBC, I'd love to see it.

(10-08-2015 03:14 PM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 10:05 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 08:18 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 05:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  "Not real comfortable" is an understatement. I actually enjoy the Sun Belt but I'm not so sure the feeling is mutual. The MWC would be ideal but we'd need another wave of realignment for that to be a real possibility. There's also been a cockamamie theory lately about the Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho & NMSU forming a new FBS conference using the Big West as a shell -- I would love that, but I doubt it flies for a whole host of reasons.

Honestly? I just want to be able to stay in the game of musical chairs until someone finally lets us sit down. And it makes more sense to drop football altogether than to drop back down to FCS.

I don't mind having you in the SB. I am not fond of affiliate members but App is still in the SoCon for wrestling and App Field Hockey has not conference and needs one. But that feeling aside I am not anti-Idaho. And without affiliate members there would be no SB MSOC.

I just feel bad for Idaho as you are so far away and a shame this is the best situation you have.

APR at Idaho sealed the deal for me. It's one thing to play poorly and be a historically bad performing program, but to also be the worst APR is truly embarrassing.

If we don't focus on building our brand, we will continue to face challenges as a conference. With Idaho and NMSU its a case of addition by subtraction. There are quite a few quality programs from Texas and east that could be added that would improve the league should we want 12 teams. I can think of two football only invites that would come in a heartbeat if we can't agree on additional full members.

Respectfully--

The APR issue is a bad place to hang your hat. It was a temporary issue caused by massive transfers during the conference loss and coaching change. Petrino immediately fixed the problem and Idaho now has one of the highest APRs in the Sun Belt. Idaho is the highest-ranked academic institution in the Conference.

And we're only a "historically bad performing program" if your memory is only 4 years long. We were a very good program throughout the 80's and 90's and have won 2 bowl games since moving up despite dealing with constant conference turmoil.

I appreciate the additional information, but all I can say is when APR headlines came out last time Idaho was featured, and not for the right reasons. I'm not the only one who thought: "Why did we extend associate membership to these guys again?"

You say it will be different the next time rankings are announced, and that's great but when a program drags the conference strength down both athletically and academically it's time for some soul searching. If Idaho could do anything to improve its viability in the SBC, I'd love to see it.

Luckily, the SBC didn't have the same thought with App State given the APR issues the men's basketball team had. Just saying...