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Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
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TiminMem23 Offline
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Post: #1
Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
Gary Parrish compared the Cuonzo Martin situation at Tennessee to Pastner's current predicament in Memphis. He said the relationship between Cuonzo and the majority of the fanbase became toxic, and the same thing is happening (or has already happened) here.

He then said Cuonzo Martin stuck it to the fans by going to the Sweet 16, getting a new gig and telling Tennessee to "suck an egg". Parrish seems to be a fan of Pastner, and he hopes Pastner can do the same thing here.

Here's where I think he's completely wrong: I don't think Cuonzo Martin stuck it to Tennessee fans. I think they were glad he made what they considered a lucky run to the Sweet 16. It made him a candidate for other jobs. Their fans didn't change their minds and want him to stay just because he got a good draw in the tournament and rode Stokes and another guy to two wins. If you ask Tennessee fans today if they would want Cuonzo back, they would probably say hell no. They think Cuonzo is an average coach. They've had better in BP and want to continue looking for the next BP. No fan base wants to be average, regardless of their history.

The same situation applies to Memphis, IMO. I think a lot of people, me included, would want Josh gone whether the team goes 18-14 or goes to the Sweet 16. I've seen enough from him to believe that he'll never be an elite coach. He's at best an average coach. A good draw in the tournament this year and a win or two won't erase a seven-year history. Even if Memphis ends up in a worse situation before they get better, that's a risk I'm willing to take. It worked in football. Tennessee bball is experiencing the same thing right now. It got worse before it might get better.

How do you feel about it? Would Pastner going to the Sweet 16 change your mind about him? Let's not talk about a run deeper than that, because it's not happening. Stick to the Sweet 16 as the hypothetical end result.

Disclaimer: If you're already a fan of Pastner and you hate this discussion, then don't comment.
08-28-2015 08:54 AM
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airric2255 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
Sweet 16 would not change my opinion - he is a good man, but it is not a good fit. I wish he was a serious candidate and had gotten the ASU job this past off-season so the rebuild/reload project would already be underway. We need the team to win and win at a level CJP gets another job offer he is willing to take and save the UM (and donors) the high $ to buy him out.
08-28-2015 08:57 AM
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MemphisFan95 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
It's football season
08-28-2015 08:58 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.
08-28-2015 09:04 AM
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TiminMem23 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. In my mind, his goofiness overshadows the good stuff he does in terms of perception (reality is he does do a lot of great things in the community). I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2015 09:09 AM by TiminMem23.)
08-28-2015 09:07 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. As the face of the program, I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

Fine --- I'm one who thinks he's a good person and that's what is deep down important. The other stuff you mentioned is high schoolish IMO.
08-28-2015 09:10 AM
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gusrob Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
You have to understand Gary makes his living by entertaining people enough to be listened to. He stirs up the story on one side then stirs up the story on the other side. Then he can have the attention of both sides. I don't think he cares about CJP in either direction, but he knows Memphis Tigers Basketball is the major selling point to Memphis area sports fans. People put too much into the words of all these ladles who make their living selling "news."

Go watch the weather channel every day while you're in Destin, Gulf Shores, etc. The Weather Channel claims rain every day, but it's beautiful every day. If there's rain, we watch. If it's Sunny and 92F, we go outside.
08-28-2015 09:13 AM
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Timmy989 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. In my mind, his goofiness overshadows the good stuff he does in terms of perception (reality is he does do a lot of great things in the community). I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

But silly to who? Every time any media person outside of Memphis talks about him they rave about him and say how much they like him. I really think the perception outside of Memphis thing is something fans just invented. I live outside of Memphis and I never hear like bad things about Memphis. We obviously aren't talked about like we were with Cal but that was more about Cal than the Memphis program.

I'm also not saying I think Pastner is a good coach I just dont think that nation wide the program is considered a joke like a lot of Tigers fans seem to
08-28-2015 09:21 AM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:10 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. As the face of the program, I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

Fine --- I'm one who thinks he's a good person and that's what is deep down important. The other stuff you mentioned is high schoolish IMO.

Agree, but it has nothing to do with winning big in DI basketball.
08-28-2015 09:21 AM
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bluebacker Away
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Post: #10
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:21 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:10 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. As the face of the program, I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

Fine --- I'm one who thinks he's a good person and that's what is deep down important. The other stuff you mentioned is high schoolish IMO.

Agree, but it has nothing to do with winning big in DI basketball.

It's not about winning; it's about competitive excellence. Please catch up.
08-28-2015 09:53 AM
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TiminMem23 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:21 AM)Timmy989 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. In my mind, his goofiness overshadows the good stuff he does in terms of perception (reality is he does do a lot of great things in the community). I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

But silly to who? Every time any media person outside of Memphis talks about him they rave about him and say how much they like him. I really think the perception outside of Memphis thing is something fans just invented. I live outside of Memphis and I never hear like bad things about Memphis. We obviously aren't talked about like we were with Cal but that was more about Cal than the Memphis program.

I'm also not saying I think Pastner is a good coach I just dont think that nation wide the program is considered a joke like a lot of Tigers fans seem to

That's anecdotal. I can come up with my own examples of people outside of Memphis who make fun of Pastner. I remember the thread a few years back on a L'ville board when they were clowning on Pastner because of his halftime interview during a home game against the Cards. I also remember Jon Rothstein (spelling?) looking at Pastner like he was an idiot when he said the Rutgers coach was incredible because he had once been in the NBA.
08-28-2015 10:46 AM
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TiminMem23 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 09:53 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:21 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:10 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:04 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  They also noted that Pastner is a really good person and is thought of in that light --- and so the Cuonzo Martin comparison breaks down there. A lot of Memphis fans absolutely hate this, not just for the program but also for Josh Pastner. That didn't seem to be the attitude at UT with Martin.

Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. As the face of the program, I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

Fine --- I'm one who thinks he's a good person and that's what is deep down important. The other stuff you mentioned is high schoolish IMO.

Agree, but it has nothing to do with winning big in DI basketball.

It's not about winning; it's about competitive excellence. Please catch up.

Yet another example of Pastner's goofiness.
08-28-2015 10:49 AM
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Post: #13
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 10:49 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:53 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:21 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:10 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:07 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  Glad you brought that up. I disagree with them on that front as well. Pastner is a good guy, but he's also incredibly goofy. Not sure how else to describe him. As the face of the program, I think he makes the program look a bit silly.

He's made over $10 million as the coach at Memphis. Are we to feel sorry for him if he gets let go? Coaches get fired all the time. He'll be just fine.

FYI: Cuonzo isn't a bad guy, either.

Fine --- I'm one who thinks he's a good person and that's what is deep down important. The other stuff you mentioned is high schoolish IMO.

Agree, but it has nothing to do with winning big in DI basketball.

It's not about winning; it's about competitive excellence. Please catch up.

Yet another example of Pastner's goofiness.

Why do you care other than to agitate Tiger fans ? You "... won't pay much attention to them or attend any games".

http://csnbbs.com/thread-746437-page-3.html
08-28-2015 10:55 AM
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HometownTiger Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
Josh Pastner is an odd ball - great guy, no doubt - but he's different. I've talked to enough people close to/on the team to know that is true and recognized across the board.

He says stuff like "if you have your health, you're a billionaire" and "hug a win", etc. He says "everybody's good" and "awesome with a capital A".

Let me be clear... as frustrating as that can be at times, it wouldn't matter at all if he was winning. All his quirks and all his "coach speak" wouldn't matter one bit if he was winning big here.

Heck, the transfers wouldn't even matter if he was winning. Recruiting wouldn't matter if he was winning. We'd all talk about him like we talk about Fuente. If Fuente had Porter's record we'd all be talking about his inability to recruit and how boring he sounds in interviews, etc.

Winning is the key. Unfortunately for Josh, he hasn't won big enough and that highlights all the other things.

The best thing Josh could do is luck into a Sweet 16 like Cuonzo and get out. Fresh start for everyone and the "cash-strapped" school gets off the hook for his RIDICULOUS, STUPID contract.

*food for thought, UT had to hire Donnie Tyndall after Martin left. Meanwhile, Cuonzo is building a nice roster at Cal.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2015 11:28 AM by HometownTiger.)
08-28-2015 11:27 AM
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HiltonHeadMemFan Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
According to this place, all the anti Pastner people are a "small minority"

Did any of you tell GP?
08-28-2015 11:38 AM
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TiminMem23 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 10:55 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 10:49 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:53 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:21 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:10 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Fine --- I'm one who thinks he's a good person and that's what is deep down important. The other stuff you mentioned is high schoolish IMO.

Agree, but it has nothing to do with winning big in DI basketball.

It's not about winning; it's about competitive excellence. Please catch up.

Yet another example of Pastner's goofiness.

Why do you care other than to agitate Tiger fans ? You "... won't pay much attention to them or attend any games".

http://csnbbs.com/thread-746437-page-3.html

Did you read my disclaimer? If not, please do.

I want Tiger basketball to be good. It's much more fun when they are. I think they need to get rid of Pastner to have a chance at moving the needle back in that direction. Hence, I started this discussion. If you love Pastner and can't stand the thought of a discussion where people are critical of him, then don't take part in it.

You aren't going to stop people from being critical of Josh Pastner. So why get angry about it? I have no problem whatsoever with those who think very highly of Pastner and would like him to stay. I have no issue with that opinion. I disagree with it, but I don't have have a problem with the person holding that opinion. However, the opposite doesn't seem to be true. People who support Pastner can't stand that people have negative opinions of him. It riles them up.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2015 11:45 AM by TiminMem23.)
08-28-2015 11:42 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 11:38 AM)HiltonHeadMemFan Wrote:  According to this place, all the anti Pastner people are a "small minority"

Did any of you tell GP?

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08-28-2015 11:47 AM
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TiminMem23 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 11:27 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Josh Pastner is an odd ball - great guy, no doubt - but he's different. I've talked to enough people close to/on the team to know that is true and recognized across the board.

He says stuff like "if you have your health, you're a billionaire" and "hug a win", etc. He says "everybody's good" and "awesome with a capital A".

Let me be clear... as frustrating as that can be at times, it wouldn't matter at all if he was winning. All his quirks and all his "coach speak" wouldn't matter one bit if he was winning big here.

Heck, the transfers wouldn't even matter if he was winning. Recruiting wouldn't matter if he was winning. We'd all talk about him like we talk about Fuente. If Fuente had Porter's record we'd all be talking about his inability to recruit and how boring he sounds in interviews, etc.

Winning is the key. Unfortunately for Josh, he hasn't won big enough and that highlights all the other things.

The best thing Josh could do is luck into a Sweet 16 like Cuonzo and get out. Fresh start for everyone and the "cash-strapped" school gets off the hook for his RIDICULOUS, STUPID contract.

*food for thought, UT had to hire Donnie Tyndall after Martin left. Meanwhile, Cuonzo is building a nice roster at Cal.

While that is in fact true, I don't think it makes UT fans regret turning on Cuonzo and pushing him out. In the end game, Cuonzo will likely have some decent years and some subpar years. He seems to be a nice coach, but not an elite one. Big time programs (whether they've traditionally had success in a certain sport or not) want to keep trying to get the next elite coach. You might think it a futile effort for Tennessee bball, but they've had Pearl and tasted big success. They want to get the next elite coach.

In the case of Memphis, I don't think people expect another Cal to walk through the door, but they (we) do think it's possible to do better than what Josh has delivered. I want a team with an edge. Look at the Grizz: I don't think they have a great shot at winning a championship without a superstar, but they are fun to watch and I like that team. They are gritty. They have an identity. Other teams respect them. The country respects them.
08-28-2015 11:49 AM
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HometownTiger Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 11:49 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 11:27 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Josh Pastner is an odd ball - great guy, no doubt - but he's different. I've talked to enough people close to/on the team to know that is true and recognized across the board.

He says stuff like "if you have your health, you're a billionaire" and "hug a win", etc. He says "everybody's good" and "awesome with a capital A".

Let me be clear... as frustrating as that can be at times, it wouldn't matter at all if he was winning. All his quirks and all his "coach speak" wouldn't matter one bit if he was winning big here.

Heck, the transfers wouldn't even matter if he was winning. Recruiting wouldn't matter if he was winning. We'd all talk about him like we talk about Fuente. If Fuente had Porter's record we'd all be talking about his inability to recruit and how boring he sounds in interviews, etc.

Winning is the key. Unfortunately for Josh, he hasn't won big enough and that highlights all the other things.

The best thing Josh could do is luck into a Sweet 16 like Cuonzo and get out. Fresh start for everyone and the "cash-strapped" school gets off the hook for his RIDICULOUS, STUPID contract.

*food for thought, UT had to hire Donnie Tyndall after Martin left. Meanwhile, Cuonzo is building a nice roster at Cal.

While that is in fact true, I don't think it makes UT fans regret turning on Cuonzo and pushing him out. In the end game, Cuonzo will likely have some decent years and some subpar years. He seems to be a nice coach, but not an elite one. Big time programs (whether they've traditionally had success in a certain sport or not) want to keep trying to get the next elite coach. You might think it a futile effort for Tennessee bball, but they've had Pearl and tasted big success. They want to get the next elite coach.

In the case of Memphis, I don't think people expect another Cal to walk through the door, but they (we) do think it's possible to do better than what Josh has delivered. I want a team with an edge. Look at the Grizz: I don't think they have a great shot at winning a championship without a superstar, but they are fun to watch and I like that team. They are gritty. They have an identity. Other teams respect them. The country respects them.

I hear ya.

I'm just saying - I think Martin will have success at Cal. How much, I don't know...but more than Barnes will have at UT. IMO.

If Josh leaves I think we can do better (probably not a big name) but it wouldn't surprise me if a fresh start does him some good.
08-28-2015 11:56 AM
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bigbob Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Josh Pastner/Cuonzo Martin Analogy
(08-28-2015 08:54 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  Gary Parrish compared the Cuonzo Martin situation at Tennessee to Pastner's current predicament in Memphis. He said the relationship between Cuonzo and the majority of the fanbase became toxic, and the same thing is happening (or has already happened) here.

He then said Cuonzo Martin stuck it to the fans by going to the Sweet 16, getting a new gig and telling Tennessee to "suck an egg". Parrish seems to be a fan of Pastner, and he hopes Pastner can do the same thing here.

Here's where I think he's completely wrong: I don't think Cuonzo Martin stuck it to Tennessee fans. I think they were glad he made what they considered a lucky run to the Sweet 16. It made him a candidate for other jobs. Their fans didn't change their minds and want him to stay just because he got a good draw in the tournament and rode Stokes and another guy to two wins. If you ask Tennessee fans today if they would want Cuonzo back, they would probably say hell no. They think Cuonzo is an average coach. They've had better in BP and want to continue looking for the next BP. No fan base wants to be average, regardless of their history.

The same situation applies to Memphis, IMO. I think a lot of people, me included, would want Josh gone whether the team goes 18-14 or goes to the Sweet 16. I've seen enough from him to believe that he'll never be an elite coach. He's at best an average coach. A good draw in the tournament this year and a win or two won't erase a seven-year history. Even if Memphis ends up in a worse situation before they get better, that's a risk I'm willing to take. It worked in football. Tennessee bball is experiencing the same thing right now. It got worse before it might get better.

How do you feel about it? Would Pastner going to the Sweet 16 change your mind about him? Let's not talk about a run deeper than that, because it's not happening. Stick to the Sweet 16 as the hypothetical end result.

Disclaimer: If you're already a fan of Pastner and you hate this discussion, then don't comment.

How anout if you're part of the little anti-Pastner cabal, why don't you find a new pastime?
08-28-2015 12:00 PM
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