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DD GETS IT!!!
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okgc Offline
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Post: #21
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 02:25 PM)Doo Wrote:  I noticed you totally ignored by second point....but let's focus on the trend.

I agree with you on there being two trends, but I can point out that Cubit took over a 1-10 team and had a better first three seasons than Peej who inherited a 4-8
Quite biased & Pure speculation since PJ has not coached three seasons at WMU.
08-28-2015 02:59 PM
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Doo Offline
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Post: #22
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
Check back with me in a few months
08-28-2015 03:04 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #23
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
Quote:Check back with me in a few months

Our schedule is super-tough -- and going 1-11 to kick off his start skews the "let's just look at the record"! Again, if Cubit went 1-11, then 8-5, then 8-4 -- there'd be NO complaints by anyone after that last season. Not that I'm saying we'll go 8-4 -- that's a big stretch. 7-5 most likely.

Never underestimate the Power of PJ. :)

[Image: pj_fleck_fun_reduced.gif]
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2015 03:16 PM by toddjnsn.)
08-28-2015 03:14 PM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #24
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 12:43 PM)Doo Wrote:  Just to put things in perspective a little. "If" we go 8-4 Peej will have the same record in his three seasons as Cubit did in his last three...a record that got him fired. Also since Peej has arrived we've beat a total of "1" team that finished with a winning record. Let's pump the breaks just a tad.

And to continue that perspective, Cubit had 8 years. Fleck will have had 3. So I agree, "let's pump the breaks just a tad"
08-28-2015 03:35 PM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #25
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 03:35 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 12:43 PM)Doo Wrote:  Just to put things in perspective a little. "If" we go 8-4 Peej will have the same record in his three seasons as Cubit did in his last three...a record that got him fired. Also since Peej has arrived we've beat a total of "1" team that finished with a winning record. Let's pump the breaks just a tad.

And to continue that perspective, Cubit had 8 years. Fleck will have had 3. So I agree, "let's pump the breaks just a tad"

He was hired to take us higher, not maintain the status quo. Time to deliver.
08-28-2015 03:36 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #26
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
Quote:He was hired to take us higher, not maintain the status quo. Time to deliver.

And he has been delivering. Went from 1-11 to 8-4 for the regular season. He's not looking for the status quo either (if you count 5-7 to 7-5 as 'status quo'). If in the 4th year he's at that level, yep -- complain then.

Cubit's Illinois' coach. He's been a HC. He's been at Illinois. Time to deliver Now. :)

I am rooting for Cubit. I want him to do well there -- especially to see PJ vs Cubit next year as a possibility.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2015 03:57 PM by toddjnsn.)
08-28-2015 03:44 PM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #27
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 03:44 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  
Quote:He was hired to take us higher, not maintain the status quo. Time to deliver.

And he has been delivering. Went from 1-11 to 8-4 for the regular season. He's not looking for the status quo either (if you count 5-7 to 7-5 as 'status quo'). If in the 4th year he's at that level, yep -- complain then.

Cubit's Illinois' coach. He's been a HC. He's been at Illinois. Time to deliver Now. :)

03-phew
08-28-2015 03:51 PM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #28
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
It bothers me that I have been agreeing a lot with Todd lately, but I have been.
08-28-2015 03:53 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #29
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 08:24 AM)brovol Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 08:14 AM)brovol Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:59 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 06:35 AM)goldsworth Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 06:23 AM)rtletterman Wrote:  I guess there are fans want to build on and realize the potential while others want to languish in the hope that "someday our ship comes in".

I'm not sure why so many are so afraid. Please explain.

I'm happy you guys agree, as you both said with his take in the article, is is time to win this year. Everything is in place.

Stumbling in big games is over.WMU did their stumbling last year with a one point loss to Toledo and loosing control of the Northern Illinois game. The team is poised this year and for the next three for that matter. iIts time to win consistently as most all of the resources are in place and no reason to believe that getting excellent talent to come to WMU will stop. A MAC championship complete with Bowl wins are within the grasp of this football team. Injuries are the only potential obstacle to achieving team goals.. Go Broncos the time is now!

You played a Toledo team last season without Ely and Hunt, that would be like a WMU team without Terrell and Franklin. Some of the WMU fans are not getting that other MAC teams have been getting that 8 or 9 impacts players each recruiting class. So there is much more parity through out the Conference, particularly the MAC West. Good luck this season.

True. Parity is always the case with the MAC. No game can ever be taken for granted. Seems like every year even the best teams stumble at least once. That's one reason it is such a great league. Toledo is always excellent, even when it is missing a few players. I hope we have a good game with your boys this year. It will be exciting leading up to the game.

......oh, and I would reciprocate you "good luck" offering, but it would be disingenuous. LOL.

That's ok. Not everybody has to believe in or practice sportsmanship.
08-28-2015 05:10 PM
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broncofan1 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
I really like Cubit, and I really like Fleck. Why is that so hard for some?

WMU has been pretty lucky to have both, especially considering all of the house cleaning Cubit had to do and all of the fund-raising Fleck had to do. Both came at the right time for our program.

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering (see: EMU). Without the promise/momentum of Fleck, we may never reach what Northern Illinois has enjoyed.

It's possible to be thankful for both coaches. Too many a**holes are invested in choosing sides.
08-28-2015 07:00 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  I really like Cubit, and I really like Fleck. Why is that so hard for some?

WMU has been pretty lucky to have both, especially considering all of the house cleaning Cubit had to do and all of the fund-raising Fleck had to do. Both came at the right time for our program.

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering (see: EMU). Without the promise/momentum of Fleck, we may never reach what Northern Illinois has enjoyed.

It's possible to be thankful for both coaches. Too many a**holes are invested in choosing sides.

Liking and having a slobbering love affair are entirely different. And frankly I don't know how anyone can predict 7-5 while slobbering over Fleck. Heck, if he hadn't belittled every team since he arrived, and hadn't predicted national titles I'd be fine with 7 wins, and I might be slobbering over him too
08-28-2015 07:13 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #32
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
Quote:It's possible to be thankful for both coaches.

I am. And I think it's good to see a coach like Cubit replaced aiming for the higher-up with a very Different type of coach to Aim High (or shall I say, "Elite" - lol). There's NO shame at all in having had Cubit as a coach. He was NOT one of those coaches who was "there too long" or something either. So that's good and keeps the remembrance of Cubit good in our minds -- and he was a Good Coach to have. It was just his time to go if we're aiming High, which requires at least a bit of a gamble (or tons of $$$).

Quote:And frankly I don't know how anyone can predict 7-5 while slobbering over Fleck.

I don't see how me liking his exuberance, with tongue-in-cheek chuckling but still fired up, requires me to expect a better than 7-5 year this year with such a daunting schedule. I certainly wouldn't expect it from Cubit at all. I think Cubit (or any new coach transitioning) would have done at least a decent job at 7-5 this year given the schedule & youth.

Now, if next year we're rolling toward 7-5 during the season -- THEN I will not be pumping my first. Nor will I This Year if we blow some games we should win, while not pulling off any victory where we're the underdogs.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2015 07:25 PM by toddjnsn.)
08-28-2015 07:22 PM
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Doo Offline
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Post: #33
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  WMU has been pretty lucky to have both

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering

Your current head coach would disagree with both these points.

He's been very critical of the former regime to me....given I'm a very fringe contact, I can only imagine what he's said to others not connected to the media.
08-28-2015 09:06 PM
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wmubroncopilot Offline
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Post: #34
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 09:06 PM)Doo Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  WMU has been pretty lucky to have both

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering

Your current head coach would disagree with both these points.

He's been very critical of the former regime to me....given I'm a very fringe contact, I can only imagine what he's said to others not connected to the media.

I say this as a Cubit fan.. he didn't exactly leave Fleck with the best roster situation, which had SOMETHING to do with going 1-11 (no I'm not placing the entire blame on the previous staff).

It wasn't really a secret to those following it that Cubits recruiting was in decline over his last few years.

So while I do like both (I liked Cubit a bit more as just an individual, probably, but think Fleck has more upside as a coach), it doesn't surprise me that Fleck didn't have he best view of where the program was left.
08-29-2015 01:34 AM
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Ubish Offline
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Post: #35
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
The roster was in pretty good shape. Fleck just had like 20 injuries to starters or something crazy like that his first year including the MAC freshman of the year. Many of those players were back and playing well last year, which contributed to much of the success that we enjoyed.
08-29-2015 05:27 PM
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broncofan1 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-28-2015 07:13 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  I really like Cubit, and I really like Fleck. Why is that so hard for some?

WMU has been pretty lucky to have both, especially considering all of the house cleaning Cubit had to do and all of the fund-raising Fleck had to do. Both came at the right time for our program.

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering (see: EMU). Without the promise/momentum of Fleck, we may never reach what Northern Illinois has enjoyed.

It's possible to be thankful for both coaches. Too many a**holes are invested in choosing sides.

Liking and having a slobbering love affair are entirely different. And frankly I don't know how anyone can predict 7-5 while slobbering over Fleck. Heck, if he hadn't belittled every team since he arrived, and hadn't predicted national titles I'd be fine with 7 wins, and I might be slobbering over him too

Now I have a slobbering love affair with Fleck? 03-melodramatic
08-29-2015 08:21 PM
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Cucumber Salad Offline
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Post: #37
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-29-2015 01:34 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:06 PM)Doo Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  WMU has been pretty lucky to have both

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering

Your current head coach would disagree with both these points.

He's been very critical of the former regime to me....given I'm a very fringe contact, I can only imagine what he's said to others not connected to the media.

I say this as a Cubit fan.. he didn't exactly leave Fleck with the best roster situation, which had SOMETHING to do with going 1-11 (no I'm not placing the entire blame on the previous staff).

It wasn't really a secret to those following it that Cubits recruiting was in decline over his last few years.

So while I do like both (I liked Cubit a bit more as just an individual, probably, but think Fleck has more upside as a coach), it doesn't surprise me that Fleck didn't have he best view of where the program was left.

OL: Hoffing, Moten, All MAC: Beavers and Kristof. TE Boyden who Fleck chose start for 2 years and is now out with injury. Two starting wide outs in Braverman and Roberts. All MAC QB Zach Terrell. THREE All MAC DB's in Celiscar, Currie and Zamort. All MAC kicker and Punter. So entire OL, QB, 2 of 3 receivers, 3 of 4 DB's and two most key special teamers. Cubit left nothing to build on? Wasn't true then and isn't true now.
Either he knew of the talent and was strictly bad mouthing was to self promote or he couldn't discern talent if he saw it.

So which is it?
08-29-2015 11:28 PM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #38
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-29-2015 11:28 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(08-29-2015 01:34 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:06 PM)Doo Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  WMU has been pretty lucky to have both

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering

Your current head coach would disagree with both these points.

He's been very critical of the former regime to me....given I'm a very fringe contact, I can only imagine what he's said to others not connected to the media.

I say this as a Cubit fan.. he didn't exactly leave Fleck with the best roster situation, which had SOMETHING to do with going 1-11 (no I'm not placing the entire blame on the previous staff).

It wasn't really a secret to those following it that Cubits recruiting was in decline over his last few years.

So while I do like both (I liked Cubit a bit more as just an individual, probably, but think Fleck has more upside as a coach), it doesn't surprise me that Fleck didn't have he best view of where the program was left.

OL: Hoffing, Moten, All MAC: Beavers and Kristof. TE Boyden who Fleck chose start for 2 years and is now out with injury. Two starting wide outs in Braverman and Roberts. All MAC QB Zach Terrell. THREE All MAC DB's in Celiscar, Currie and Zamort. All MAC kicker and Punter. So entire OL, QB, 2 of 3 receivers, 3 of 4 DB's and two most key special teamers. Cubit left nothing to build on? Wasn't true then and isn't true now.
Either he knew of the talent and was strictly bad mouthing was to self promote or he couldn't discern talent if he saw it.

So which is it?

That's a hard question? Really now?
08-29-2015 11:46 PM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #39
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-29-2015 08:21 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:13 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  I really like Cubit, and I really like Fleck. Why is that so hard for some?

WMU has been pretty lucky to have both, especially considering all of the house cleaning Cubit had to do and all of the fund-raising Fleck had to do. Both came at the right time for our program.

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering (see: EMU). Without the promise/momentum of Fleck, we may never reach what Northern Illinois has enjoyed.

It's possible to be thankful for both coaches. Too many a**holes are invested in choosing sides.

Liking and having a slobbering love affair are entirely different. And frankly I don't know how anyone can predict 7-5 while slobbering over Fleck. Heck, if he hadn't belittled every team since he arrived, and hadn't predicted national titles I'd be fine with 7 wins, and I might be slobbering over him too

Now I have a slobbering love affair with Fleck? 03-melodramatic

Nah, just tight with a loser trust fund baby.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2015 11:47 PM by rtletterman.)
08-29-2015 11:47 PM
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PezkingGL Offline
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Post: #40
RE: DD GETS IT!!!
(08-29-2015 11:28 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(08-29-2015 01:34 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 09:06 PM)Doo Wrote:  
(08-28-2015 07:00 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  WMU has been pretty lucky to have both

To put it another way, without the foundation built by Cubit, we might still be floundering

Your current head coach would disagree with both these points.

He's been very critical of the former regime to me....given I'm a very fringe contact, I can only imagine what he's said to others not connected to the media.

I say this as a Cubit fan.. he didn't exactly leave Fleck with the best roster situation, which had SOMETHING to do with going 1-11 (no I'm not placing the entire blame on the previous staff).

It wasn't really a secret to those following it that Cubits recruiting was in decline over his last few years.

So while I do like both (I liked Cubit a bit more as just an individual, probably, but think Fleck has more upside as a coach), it doesn't surprise me that Fleck didn't have he best view of where the program was left.

OL: Hoffing, Moten, All MAC: Beavers and Kristof. TE Boyden who Fleck chose start for 2 years and is now out with injury. Two starting wide outs in Braverman and Roberts. All MAC QB Zach Terrell. THREE All MAC DB's in Celiscar, Currie and Zamort. All MAC kicker and Punter. So entire OL, QB, 2 of 3 receivers, 3 of 4 DB's and two most key special teamers. Cubit left nothing to build on? Wasn't true then and isn't true now.
Either he knew of the talent and was strictly bad mouthing was to self promote or he couldn't discern talent if he saw it.

So which is it?

Why couldn't he win?
08-29-2015 11:54 PM
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