“Can Southern Miss be dominant again?” When I read that, my first thought was that the OP perhaps may have used just a little hyperbole when he proposed the question.

As a fan of one of the conference “newbie” teams, I had no real feel for Southern Miss football, pre-C-USA 3.0. I am only aware of their struggles the past three years and the lamentations of numerous posters who yearn for the return of the USM football prowess they once enjoyed. Frankly, I was pretty ignorant of USM football history over the past 25 years. Were they in fact dominant?

So I went to Wikipedia and boned up on Southern Miss football, 1991-2011 as best I could. Yeah, I know. It’s Wikipedia, but I found some useful data. Under Bower from 1991 through 1999 the Golden Eagles averaged only 6.6 wins per season -- not exactly dominating. But from 2000 to 2011, the winning average rose to 7.7, and over the 21-year period, Southern Miss averaged 7.2 wins per season.

So – from there to where the Golden Eagles have been the last three years – I get it. The drop-off has been huge, but again, was USM truly dominating during those two decades?

(As the shucksters say on TV, “but wait, there’s more!) If they were not dominant, what I did find was that they were damn good over that period. They were highly competitive. They were consistent winners with 18 winning seasons in a row. They won five conference championships. Three times they finished the season in the top twenty.

So, tell you what. I will give them dominance. It that 21 year period wasn’t dominating, it was too close to argue about.

Can they return to dominance? I don’t know about that, but they can once again be damn good. Lord knows they have a coach down there giving it all he’s got, and they have a fan base that wants it. But hey, if that’s all it takes, ODU is right there with you, pals. And we won't be returning to dominance -- we'll be continuing it!

I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

(08-27-2015 05:24 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

USM was getting good players from the New Orleans area. A few of those went on to play in the NFL.

(08-27-2015 05:34 PM)Eagleholic Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 05:24 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

USM was getting good players from the New Orleans area. A few of those went on to play in the NFL.

OK. We haven't historically recruited S. Louisiana until recently. Y'all were taking players from Tulane and ULL. You can probably still do that pretty easily, imo.

(08-27-2015 05:24 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

Agreed, we have never gotten that many kids north of Alex. The La player we got were from NO and the northshore area and Baton rouge. We have been butting heads recently more with UL.

(08-27-2015 05:37 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 05:24 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

Agreed, we have never gotten that many kids north of Alex. The La player we got were from NO and the northshore area and Baton rouge. We have been butting heads recently more with UL.

Tech is starting to venture into Mississippi more and more which has yielded some very talented recruits over the past few season but there is no reason to think y'all can't beat out Tulane and UL-L for recruits. We also have been butting heads with the University of Louisville lately for recruits

(08-27-2015 05:24 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

If you want to start comparing Tech to USM, won loss record in this instance, then remind everyone that Tech was playing in the little leagues from 1968 thru 1988, a span of 20 yrs where competition was entirely different.

(08-27-2015 08:43 PM)eager eagle Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 05:24 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

USM wasn't beating Tech for recruits in Louisiana... maybe a couple here or there. Hell, since 1968 USM has won 300 games and Tech has won 282. Tech has traditionally recruited mostly Louisiana and Texas. We did hit the Mississippi JUCOs pretty hard in the late 90's / early 00's though.

If you want to start comparing Tech to USM, won loss record in this instance, then remind everyone that Tech was playing in the little leagues from 1968 thru 1988, a span of 20 yrs where competition was entirely different.

It's relative though since we were playing peer universities. We are 9-11 against usm in this time frame.

(08-27-2015 04:18 PM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  “Can Southern Miss be dominant again?” When I read that, my first thought was that the OP perhaps may have used just a little hyperbole when he proposed the question.

As a fan of one of the conference “newbie” teams, I had no real feel for Southern Miss football, pre-C-USA 3.0. I am only aware of their struggles the past three years and the lamentations of numerous posters who yearn for the return of the USM football prowess they once enjoyed. Frankly, I was pretty ignorant of USM football history over the past 25 years. Were they in fact dominant?

So I went to Wikipedia and boned up on Southern Miss football, 1991-2011 as best I could. Yeah, I know. It’s Wikipedia, but I found some useful data. Under Bower from 1991 through 1999 the Golden Eagles averaged only 6.6 wins per season -- not exactly dominating. But from 2000 to 2011, the winning average rose to 7.7, and over the 21-year period, Southern Miss averaged 7.2 wins per season.

So – from there to where the Golden Eagles have been the last three years – I get it. The drop-off has been huge, but again, was USM truly dominating during those two decades?

(As the shucksters say on TV, “but wait, there’s more!) If they were not dominant, what I did find was that they were damn good over that period. They were highly competitive. They were consistent winners with 18 winning seasons in a row. They won five conference championships. Three times they finished the season in the top twenty.

So, tell you what. I will give them dominance. It that 21 year period wasn’t dominating, it was too close to argue about.

Can they return to dominance? I don’t know about that, but they can once again be damn good. Lord knows they have a coach down there giving it all he’s got, and they have a fan base that wants it. But hey, if that’s all it takes, ODU is right there with you, pals. And we won't be returning to dominance -- we'll be continuing it!

If memory serves USM was also playing a pretty rough out of conference schedule during those years as well and that needs to be taken into consideration.

Yes, 95% on the road

(08-27-2015 03:37 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:05 PM)EagNBran Wrote:  Yes, let's all blame firing Bower while ignoring 4 winning seasons by Fedora that followed, including a 12-2 season with a year end #19 ranking. But let's blame a terrible coaching hire AFTER Fedora on the firing of Bower. Some of you are just delusional.

While i have the utmost respect for JB. many fail to admit his final team was about 20 scholarship players short and the defense was in shambles.

AND played in a bowl game in Birmingham...

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

The Clarion Ledger seems to agree with you.

Quote:Fuente and his staff have especially targeted players who may not have committable offers from the in-state SEC schools.

"It's the next best offer because if Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss or Mississippi State were to offer any of these kids, that's where they would go," EMCC coach Buddy Stephens said.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sport.../31794347/

Courtney Cronin talked about USM's recruiting some in this interview beg. @ 45min mark.

http://media.espn929.com/a/108347243/the...ronin.htm?

Winning will cure a lot of ills, but there's no doubt the competition for recruits has increased.

USM football might have sucked the last three years, but it's history is long and proud. Going all the way back to the early 1950's when Mississippi Southen beat #1 ranked Alabama. Two teams beat the Bear during his career at home in Tuscaloosa. One was Florida and one was USM. USM football owns wins over Nebraska, Bama, Georgia, LSU, Florida State, Auburn and numerous other teams that are in the power 5 leagues now.

I am sure ODU is a fine program, but to have an ODO fan talk smack about USM football is a real laugher. I will concede that ODU doe's own USM when it comes to sexist banners.

(08-28-2015 09:54 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  I will concede that ODU doe's own USM when it comes to sexist banners.

Yeah you're right..they should've included the freshman boys too. I'll let em know for next years move-in banners.

usm will compete for the conference championship in the future but the will never dominate the conference like they once did.

Even as a Southern Miss fan, saying we ever "dominated" CUSA is a stretch. Yes, we lost VERY few conference games from 1996-2000, but the ones we did lose were to the teams that eventually won the title (or in the case of 1996, the tie-breaker for the Liberty Bowl bid). "Domination" is a strong word to throw around in the absence of even back-to-back trips to the champion's bowl. True, you weren't winning the championship without going through USM, but we allowed just that to happen with a bit of regularity. I still think had we just beaten Tulane in '98 and went on to 3 titles & ranked finishes in a row, our present state of affairs might be quite different today.

That said, we could absolutely get back to that point. Our coaches have to work a lot harder to get the cream of the crop recruits, yes, but Hattiesburg is still a hell of a good home base from which to work. There's also a huge--but dormant--fan base ready to go if only given a reason to show up & get involved. It'd be silly to say Southern Miss is special compared to the likes of a La Tech, but all that matters is that everything needed to win and win consistently is already in place. We'll never be what we were in the heyday of our Independent days, but we can get back to where we were pre-Johnson if we can avoid any more self-inflicted wounds.

(08-28-2015 07:57 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)usm99 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:19 PM)THEarmada Wrote:  I'm not that familiar with the historical landscape of Mississippi college athletics but with the exponential growth of the SEC and the emergence of South Alabama football...the landscape has seemingly changed quite a bit.

Not just South Alabama football but you can throw in Troy (1-AA) and UAB (club or didn't exist in mid to late 90's). USM for the most part took all of the SEC leftovers from the state of Alabama. Now that those 2 along with the recent emergance of La Tech and ULaLa, USM is no longer getting many of the top "leftovers" out of Louisiana. Then thrown in the fact that those 5 teams (UAB, Troy, USA, La Tech, ULaLa) have started recruiting Mississippi, and USM is now losing recruits to those schools who once posed no threat. Just my .02 worth

The Clarion Ledger seems to agree with you.

Quote:Fuente and his staff have especially targeted players who may not have committable offers from the in-state SEC schools.

"It's the next best offer because if Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss or Mississippi State were to offer any of these kids, that's where they would go," EMCC coach Buddy Stephens said.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sport.../31794347/

Courtney Cronin talked about USM's recruiting some in this interview beg. @ 45min mark.

http://media.espn929.com/a/108347243/the...ronin.htm?

Winning will cure a lot of ills, but there's no doubt the competition for recruits has increased.

The cl is hardly a credible source for Southern Miss information, with the exception of reprints from the Hattiesburg american beat writer Jason Muntz.
While there is more competition for kids, those schools had ZERO effect on the last three years.
All one has to do is look at the number of players from those last three teams on nfl rosters at the present time and you can see it all came down to an idiot head coach who hired a buddy for an asst. The buddy had been out of the college game for a long time. The buddy hired another buddy for a s and C coach who was 20 years behind the times. Top that off with a kid who is a locker room cancer being thrust into the starting qb role much as a dad in youth league baseball would do.
That is how you go from 12 wins to 0-12.