The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I'm just glad dip and DB have finally bonded over something.

Quote:Predictable is how mad you guys get at people that even dare to not be as giddy

I have no problem with someone bringing someone else "down to earth" on expectations when too giddy over the year, a coach, a QB, etc. But when there is something be excited about, I dunno... from the FAMILY video, I saw it as the team doing all sorts of different things, being all excited -- and attributing that to PJ, yeah. And referring to PJ in what he taught them, etc. I think if Cubit or Darnell drank a few extra cups of coffee And was doing things different, to say, jazz things up and make things different after a lull and losing -- while at the same time having a video/graphics student on-hand, very few less would be rolling their eyes. Some would be overly-giddy too about expectations, possibly. Sure. After an 8-5 season though, I don't think it'd get to the point of real groans or anything between folks...

Quote:not be as giddy as you over your boy

He's Our boy! Correction -- he's Our Bro! Our Coach.... Our BroCoach. :)

We're 4 days from opening kick off. Of course there's going to be an uptick in excitement and zeal. On every school's message board. Especially those predicted to challenge for a conference title.

As far as this specific thread... I find praise, I see Fleck fans, and I read a reasonable argument of why Fleck being the main feature of the clip makes promotional sense. But I'm still trying to locate the gobs of over the top gushing.

I've seen mega Kool Aid threads in my day, but this doesn't feel like one of them.

We open a week from Friday, right? I wish it was is 4 days though. Excitement brewing.

Crap, posted too early. Next week.

(08-25-2015 06:07 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Crap, posted too early. Next week.

A few days from GAME WEEK though!!!

A thought that always bothers me is this:

How successful would Cubit have been had he been given the support (financial and otherwise) that Fleck has obtained?

I remember a lot of complaints about Cubit not having a big enough fund to use to retain assistants (same thing is said for Hawkins).

I remember Cubit cutting costs of recruiting by utilizing his resources effectively (going above and beyond to protect the budget - Florida connects etc).

Now this is not a slap at Fleck. It is not a Fleck v. Cubit thing. Fleck is our current reality. However, I do think some of past decisions of the administration are flawed. Granted, I am glad that the admin is supporting Fleck. I just wish they would have supported Cubit the same way.

Cubit ran a great program. It was clean. Graduated players. Cubit did a great job after the Darnell 1 win season (we beat Tenn. Martin I believe).

Not sure of the direction of this post. But, I guess my point is not to continue the discourse about Fleck, but to just fish a thought, to see what others think.

Let the snark begin...

-HopSlam!

Same thing happened to Doo. He got the shaft in every way, we hired the next guy who got pretty much what Doo was refused. A prominent alumni/player knows that story firsthand that can share it much better than I.

I'd say the way things went back then, right up to the dismissal, that all parties are better off. It's not the first time a good resource was burned out by inept management.

Now we have #brocoach. I'm serious when I use the Hawkins at Boise analogy. Some were glad to have had him, many were glad he was gone but most were just glad to have a good program on the upswing in national prominence when he went to Colorado. We should be so lucky. One can only hope.

A lot of U of M fans I talk to say it reminds them a lot of Rich Rod when he came to Ann Arbor. Very polarizing style/personality that created a huge divide in the fan base. The difference I think with Fleck is that he's getting a broader base of support than Rich Rod ever had at Michigan. RR never had a chance. And the expectations were (unrealistically) a lot higher at U of M. But very similar effect to the fan base.

(08-25-2015 06:24 AM)wmutkelaw Wrote:  A thought that always bothers me is this:

How successful would Cubit have been had he been given the support (financial and otherwise) that Fleck has obtained?

I remember a lot of complaints about Cubit not having a big enough fund to use to retain assistants (same thing is said for Hawkins).

I remember Cubit cutting costs of recruiting by utilizing his resources effectively (going above and beyond to protect the budget - Florida connects etc).

Now this is not a slap at Fleck. It is not a Fleck v. Cubit thing. Fleck is our current reality. However, I do think some of past decisions of the administration are flawed. Granted, I am glad that the admin is supporting Fleck. I just wish they would have supported Cubit the same way.

Cubit ran a great program. It was clean. Graduated players. Cubit did a great job after the Darnell 1 win season (we beat Tenn. Martin I believe).

Not sure of the direction of this post. But, I guess my point is not to continue the discourse about Fleck, but to just fish a thought, to see what others think.

Let the snark begin...

-HopSlam!

Cubit was an excellent coach for us, in all respects. I was disappointed when he was let go. All coaches are a product of the times at their respective schools. But some make the most out of what they have better than others. Cubit did quite well.

What fleck does is different that what cubit did, and the circumstances are somewhat different too. But this isn't about fleck v cubit and shouldn't be. Fleck manifest energy into a program that was needing exactly that, and the players are coming, then producing. He reaches for the stars, and I don't disparage him for a second for motivating the school to invest into the program. I would be disappointed if he didn't.

I am shocked there are so many on this board that still seem to be rooting against him; and that is what is happening. But whatever. Time will tell what flecks legacy will be, and all of us will still be around to comment. Problem is, should fleck have solid success I wonder how many will claim then that they were always rooting for the guy and never questioned what he was doing.

Critical comments don't necessarily translate into "rooting against him."

In a video entitled "F.A.M.I.L.Y." expect to see the focus on the family, i.e. the PLAYERS (of which we have some highly touted) not more shots of Fleck right off the mark.

It's Year Three. He's had enough exposure. He'll get more when we win MAC West, MACC, bowl game (this Fall?).

Promote the players and what they're doing, especially in a video with that title. They're doing the heavy lifting anyway.

They've become so invested in Fleck's (and WMU admin.) failure that it's too late now to change the narrative and admit that they might have been wrong in not allowing enough time to let things shake out.

(08-25-2015 07:37 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Critical comments don't necessarily translate into "rooting against him."

In a video entitled "F.A.M.I.L.Y." expect to see the focus on the family, i.e. the PLAYERS (of which we have some highly touted) not more shots of Fleck right off the mark.

It's Year Three. He's had enough exposure. He'll get more when we win MAC West, MACC, bowl game (this Fall?).

Promote the players and what they're doing, especially in a video with that title. They're doing the heavy lifting anyway.

I respectfully disagree. In a video designed to recruit, promote whatever needs to be promoted in order to get the players to come. Fleck has been doing just that. This guy knows what he is doing in the recruiting department, even if many on this board may do things differently when they become the head coach.

(08-25-2015 07:38 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  They've become so invested in Fleck's (and WMU admin.) failure that it's too late now to change the narrative and admit that they might have been wrong in not allowing enough time to let things shake out.

I respectfully disagree with you too. Todays anti-fleck group will for certain claim that they were never anti-fleck, and were always supporting what he did, but that they just had a few issues with his style back then. Folks around here find it difficult to admit that kind of error in judgement. But I digress.....

I never will claim that. Mark me as the Boise types who were glad to see Dan Hawkins leave.

(08-25-2015 07:38 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  They've become so invested in Fleck's (and WMU admin.) failure that it's too late now to change the narrative and admit that they might have been wrong in not allowing enough time to let things shake out.

Nobody is questioning the #brocoach. MAC title this year baby!!

His fembod wannabe entourage maybe....

One difference I see now vs other years.

I don't remember people being this invested in Al Molde, a guy who took over a downtrodden program, won a championship, and had a decade of success. Same with Gary Darnell and his two year run at the MAC Champoonship.

In both cases the fans were about the team and the players, not to mention they both had far more early success than Fleck.

All the focus on Fleck stuff works if it is mixed with a high level of success. If not the media will do a real number on Fleck and it will reflect on the University. They love building you up and they love tearing you down.

For me, I loved watching this team, but I could use a little less of sideline antics, the incessant rowing, and a lot more focus on JF, Cory Davis, and Zach Terrel.

Finally, what do Terrel, Moten, Zamort, Currie, Braverman, Roberts, Celesjar, and Kristof and our All MAC punter have in common?

A couple of thoughts..
1) The very idea that Fleck received a gusher of new funds from the Athletic Dept....is absurd....Every $$$$$$ in improvements came from outside sources, including his bump in pay.....
2) when Dip talks about slobbering Walmart types, I've got a new contender. The slobbering Walmart Spartan fans are becoming just as obnoxious as any Wolve, Domer, Smuckeye I've ever met....A new brand of aholes..

(08-25-2015 08:35 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  One difference I see now vs other years.

I don't remember people being this invested in Al Molde, a guy who took over a downtrodden program, won a championship, and had a decade of success. Same with Gary Darnell and his two year run at the MAC Champoonship.

In both cases the fans were about the team and the players, not to mention they both had far more early success than Fleck.

All the focus on Fleck stuff works if it is mixed with a high level of success. If not the media will do a real number on Fleck and it will reflect on the University. They love building you up and they love tearing you down.

For me, I loved watching this team, but I could use a little less of sideline antics, the incessant rowing, and a lot more focus on JF, Cory Davis, and Zach Terrel.

Finally, what do Terrel, Moten, Zamort, Currie, Braverman, Roberts, Celesjar, and Kristof and our All MAC punter have in common?

Cubit recruits? Ok. Fleck is doing a nice job developing those guys, and isn't the kind of coach who pushes his own recruits in front of his predecessors recruits even when the other guys kids would do better? If that's your point then I agree; Fleck is an equitable guy who puts fairness and winning above his own personal agenda. And even those Cubit recruits, who see what posters on this forum don't in terms of who Fleck really is, seem to love the guy and buy into his philosophy. That should say something.