(02-07-2018 10:59 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Having said that, I imagine at least a small part of the reason McDaniels rescinded the job may have also had to do with Andrew Luck. Mortensen is reporting that additional surgery might be needed. He COULD be toast.

Such a shame. Luck was the best QB prospect since Elway, and the Colts absolutely ruined him. He was the one who was supposed to take the torch from Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers to head up the next era of good young QB's.

Doesn't excuse what McDaniels did at all, but the Colts being a terrible organization is not a mutually exclusive concept. Jim Irsay is a drugged up idiot who doesn't know how to run a franchise, at all.

That's too bad. So much promise for Luck too. That would be a good reason for him to have second thoughts, but still doesn't acquit going back on a handshake deal IMO. See, i CAN look at things with the pats objectively, for the record.

(02-07-2018 11:04 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  That's too bad. So much promise for Luck too. That would be a good reason for him to have second thoughts, but still doesn't acquit going back on a handshake deal IMO. See, i CAN look at things with the pats objectively, for the record.

Admitting McDaniels was wrong to do what he did is akin to saying that Pol Pot's rule was bad. It doesn't win you any points.

(02-07-2018 11:37 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 11:04 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  That's too bad. So much promise for Luck too. That would be a good reason for him to have second thoughts, but still doesn't acquit going back on a handshake deal IMO. See, i CAN look at things with the pats objectively, for the record.

Admitting McDaniels was wrong to do what he did is akin to saying that Pol Pot's rule was bad. It doesn't win you any points.

good thing i don't need points then isn't it. I know I can be objective when it comes to the pats. You ARE capable when it comes to almost any discussion of had with you about sports. The exception, is the pats.

(02-07-2018 08:11 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I do agree that it is a very crappy move on his part. He was clearly was probably offered a handshake deal to take over when Bill retires because he definitely blackballed himself from getting other offers in the future.

Not only a bad look for McDaniels, but also for Kraft. And, this will be bad for the Pats in the long run. He screwed the Colts, yes, but more than that he screwed three assistants that he had already given his word to. If he does take over for Bill, how is a guy that nobody trusts going to build a staff?

New England has built their dynasty because of the greatness of Brady and the brilliance of BB. They're going to fall hard.

(02-07-2018 01:26 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 08:11 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I do agree that it is a very crappy move on his part. He was clearly was probably offered a handshake deal to take over when Bill retires because he definitely blackballed himself from getting other offers in the future.

Not only a bad look for McDaniels, but also for Kraft. And, this will be bad for the Pats in the long run. He screwed the Colts, yes, but more than that he screwed three assistants that he had already given his word to. If he does take over for Bill, how is a guy that nobody trusts going to build a staff?

New England has built their dynasty because of the greatness of Brady and the brilliance of BB. They're going to fall hard.

yeah, was a ****** move no doubt. I've been reading a lot of Chirping saying Kraft did it intentionally to screw the colts. If Kraft is still there, McDaniels stays and other coaches stay to keep the system, i'm not sure they fall as hard as people might think. Definitely a step back, tough to stay where they have been.

Such a doosh move that his agent quit too. LOL

What a complete turd.

(02-07-2018 03:34 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Such a doosh move that his agent quit too. LOL

What a complete turd.

You know his agent, was also the agent of the Colts GM too? Talk about a conflict of interest

(02-07-2018 01:31 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 01:26 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 08:11 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I do agree that it is a very crappy move on his part. He was clearly was probably offered a handshake deal to take over when Bill retires because he definitely blackballed himself from getting other offers in the future.

Not only a bad look for McDaniels, but also for Kraft. And, this will be bad for the Pats in the long run. He screwed the Colts, yes, but more than that he screwed three assistants that he had already given his word to. If he does take over for Bill, how is a guy that nobody trusts going to build a staff?

New England has built their dynasty because of the greatness of Brady and the brilliance of BB. They're going to fall hard.

yeah, was a ****** move no doubt. I've been reading a lot of Chirping saying Kraft did it intentionally to screw the colts. If Kraft is still there, McDaniels stays and other coaches stay to keep the system, i'm not sure they fall as hard as people might think. Definitely a step back, tough to stay where they have been.

Brady and Belichick are covering for a multitude of issues. They weren't as talented as Jacksonville this year; I don't see how they don't fall hard.

(02-07-2018 04:23 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 01:31 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 01:26 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 08:11 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I do agree that it is a very crappy move on his part. He was clearly was probably offered a handshake deal to take over when Bill retires because he definitely blackballed himself from getting other offers in the future.

Not only a bad look for McDaniels, but also for Kraft. And, this will be bad for the Pats in the long run. He screwed the Colts, yes, but more than that he screwed three assistants that he had already given his word to. If he does take over for Bill, how is a guy that nobody trusts going to build a staff?

New England has built their dynasty because of the greatness of Brady and the brilliance of BB. They're going to fall hard.

yeah, was a ****** move no doubt. I've been reading a lot of Chirping saying Kraft did it intentionally to screw the colts. If Kraft is still there, McDaniels stays and other coaches stay to keep the system, i'm not sure they fall as hard as people might think. Definitely a step back, tough to stay where they have been.

Brady and Belichick are covering for a multitude of issues. They weren't as talented as Jacksonville this year; I don't see how they don't fall hard.

Talent acquisition! They had a plethora of injuries on offense. They need to get some difference makers on D. Brady had a solid season, but they still find ways to win. I'm not saying there won't be a set back. But to me, it's like if Roy left Carolina, or k left Duke. I think both schools would still be solid.

(02-07-2018 04:52 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 04:23 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 01:31 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 01:26 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 08:11 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I do agree that it is a very crappy move on his part. He was clearly was probably offered a handshake deal to take over when Bill retires because he definitely blackballed himself from getting other offers in the future.

Not only a bad look for McDaniels, but also for Kraft. And, this will be bad for the Pats in the long run. He screwed the Colts, yes, but more than that he screwed three assistants that he had already given his word to. If he does take over for Bill, how is a guy that nobody trusts going to build a staff?

New England has built their dynasty because of the greatness of Brady and the brilliance of BB. They're going to fall hard.

yeah, was a ****** move no doubt. I've been reading a lot of Chirping saying Kraft did it intentionally to screw the colts. If Kraft is still there, McDaniels stays and other coaches stay to keep the system, i'm not sure they fall as hard as people might think. Definitely a step back, tough to stay where they have been.

Brady and Belichick are covering for a multitude of issues. They weren't as talented as Jacksonville this year; I don't see how they don't fall hard.

Talent acquisition! They had a plethora of injuries on offense. They need to get some difference makers on D. Brady had a solid season, but they still find ways to win. I'm not saying there won't be a set back. But to me, it's like if Roy left Carolina, or k left Duke. I think both schools would still be solid.

I doubt it. Once Brady is gone, you have a massive void to fill as far as talent goes. He's enabled the Patriots to win a lot of games they shouldn't/couldn't have without him... and that's WITH Belichick at the helm. There's no way Belichick will be there once Brady retires. He knows his coaching legacy is tied to Brady, and wouldn't want to taint it with a run of 6-10/7-9 or even 8-8 seasons without Brady because then everyone will say, "He obviously wasn't as great of a coach as we thought it was, it was Brady."

In the same sense, any coach following that legacy is absolutely doomed. Look what happened to the Colts and Broncos once Peyton was gone from each. Disaster, coaching carousels and the like. The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived. The Patriots enabled Brady and Belichick or one or the other to basically run off any threat to Brady's playing time/future. So they're gonna be left with a vacuum void at the position when it's all said and done if they're not careful. They had a seriously good backup in Garropolo, then traded him to the 49ers. That might have been the mistake that could cost the Patriots organization any sort of "system success" in the wake of Brady and Belichick's departures. Whoever the next coach is behind Belichick is going to be facing an uphill climb in talent at key positions, and in the minds of delusional fans that will no doubt expect them to remain in contention for championships year after year.

As long as Ernie Adams sticks around, they'll have some semblance of the Patriots of the last nearly 20 years.

If he goes along with Belichick and Brady....nope. Completely different.

Ernie is 65 though, so I imagine he'll walk when Belichick does.

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Agreed. Only org more blessed with great QB's who disappointed more would be the Colts. Drafted Elway, Peyton, and Luck # 1. Elway refused to play for Indy since they were so bad, they squandered most of the Peyton era, and ruined Luck.

Just 1 title to show for all of that, and they beat the Rex Grossman-led Bears to get it.

(02-07-2018 08:51 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Agreed. Only org more blessed with great QB's who disappointed more would be the Colts. Drafted Elway, Peyton, and Luck # 1. Elway refused to play for Indy since they were so bad, they squandered most of the Peyton era, and ruined Luck.

Just 1 title to show for all of that, and they beat the Rex Grossman-led Bears to get it.

Grossman was bad in the Super Bowl, but I've always felt like Cedric Benson's 1st quarter fumble shifted momentum. I'd take Grossman at QB over Benson at RB. Grossman's pick-six in the 4th didn't help though.

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Whether or not they've capitalized is a completely different story, and I agree with you that they have not. However, in terms of maintaining a strong presence at the position... sending Favre packing (no pun intended) was the right move at the right time considering he was going to stonewall their future with Rodgers if he stayed.

(02-08-2018 07:32 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Whether or not they've capitalized is a completely different story, and I agree with you that they have not. However, in terms of maintaining a strong presence at the position... sending Favre packing (no pun intended) was the right move at the right time considering he was going to stonewall their future with Rodgers if he stayed.

All true, but I still hate the Packers.

Aaron Rodgers quote last week, My quarterback coach didn't get retained. I thought that was an interesting change -- really without consulting me. There's a close connection between quarterback and quarterback coach. And that was an interesting decision."

He's a free agent in two years...will be interesting to see if they can put a team around him these next two years.

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Well in fairness, i think that was the plan with Jimmy G, and they had their guy. Brady is just sticking around longer than anyone thought he would. and still playing at a high level. In terms of Brady being the guy, they are 14-5 in games not started by Brady over his career. I'd argue the System is more important. Obviously, he executes it flawlessly, and it would be a step back, but i don't think it's as much as you guys think. 08 does have a point with Adams, he is often over looked as a huge part of their success.

(02-08-2018 09:05 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Well in fairness, i think that was the plan with Jimmy G, and they had their guy. Brady is just sticking around longer than anyone thought he would. and still playing at a high level. In terms of Brady being the guy, they are 14-5 in games not started by Brady over his career. I'd argue the System is more important. Obviously, he executes it flawlessly, and it would be a step back, but i don't think it's as much as you guys think. 08 does have a point with Adams, he is often over looked as a huge part of their success.

Wait, is he the GOAT, or is it the system? Seems hard to argue that he the greatest while maintaining the system can go on without him.

(02-08-2018 09:18 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:05 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Well in fairness, i think that was the plan with Jimmy G, and they had their guy. Brady is just sticking around longer than anyone thought he would. and still playing at a high level. In terms of Brady being the guy, they are 14-5 in games not started by Brady over his career. I'd argue the System is more important. Obviously, he executes it flawlessly, and it would be a step back, but i don't think it's as much as you guys think. 08 does have a point with Adams, he is often over looked as a huge part of their success.

Wait, is he the GOAT, or is it the system? Seems hard to argue that he the greatest while maintaining the system can go on without him.

You obviously play in the system you are in, Montana played in a system, etc etc. The system is more important IMO, but you can't take away from the fact he executes it flawlessly.

(02-08-2018 09:26 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:18 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:05 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 07:34 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:59 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The Packers did it right. They basically drafted an heir to Favre, stuck with him, and eventually sent Favre packing as his twilight arrived.

The Packers got lucky, IMO. Even still, they've failed to truly capitalize on 25 years of excellent QB play. 2 championships with Favre and Rodgers at QB is a disappointment.

Well in fairness, i think that was the plan with Jimmy G, and they had their guy. Brady is just sticking around longer than anyone thought he would. and still playing at a high level. In terms of Brady being the guy, they are 14-5 in games not started by Brady over his career. I'd argue the System is more important. Obviously, he executes it flawlessly, and it would be a step back, but i don't think it's as much as you guys think. 08 does have a point with Adams, he is often over looked as a huge part of their success.

Wait, is he the GOAT, or is it the system? Seems hard to argue that he the greatest while maintaining the system can go on without him.

You obviously play in the system you are in, Montana played in a system, etc etc. The system is more important IMO, but you can't take away from the fact he executes it flawlessly.

I'm probably being simple-minded, but they system has failed with every assistant that has time to implement it on their own. I think the system is important, but I also think having a superior coach and elite QB are the keys to success. Time will tell.

You may find this interesting, Hoops. I have a coworker whose son will likely be drafted in April (everyone assumes by the Patriots). He was in Bama two weeks ago for the Senior Bowl and said that the Patriots interview was by far the hardest. A few football questions, but also a lot of current events and politics questions as well. He also said that the whole experience was crazy. As the players were waiting for their interviews with the different teams (in a lobby), they had hundreds of donuts for anyone and each team was taking notes to see who ate a donut.