(08-01-2015 11:57 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Complaining about cut blocking would be similar to the British whining about our riflemen in the Revolution. The British put on a stiff upper lip and figured out a strategy to stop them. They would absorb one firing and rush in with bayonets. A rifle, at the time, took 3 times as long as a musket to reload and since the rifle has no slot for a bayonet, the riflemen were defenseless ducks after a discharge. The Battle of Long Island serves as a great example of that strategy. Thus going forward, our riflemen were used primarily in forest fighting (Saratoga) and the frontier theaters.

Find a way to halt cut blocking. Other teams have.

Not sure you should be citing the strategy of the losing side of a war as a success.

I like navy. I really do but I dont understand all the fear and accolades.

They are a run team. They can't pass worth a crap. All you have to do is to load the box and you will limit their offense.

They beat Temple, Texas State, VMI, San Jose St., Georgia Southern, South Alabama, Army and then SDSU in a bowl.

Now, lets really look at who they beat... SDSU and Temple were literally their hardest games and they were 7-5 and 6-6 respectively.

My honest assessment is that if they were in the AAC last year they "may" have hit 5 wins assuming they kept their OOC the same.

Dont get me wrong. They are a good team but I dont see them as a team to be feared. Their record just doesnt support it.

(08-02-2015 09:16 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I like navy. I really do but I dont understand all the fear and accolades.

They are a run team. They can't pass worth a crap. All you have to do is to load the box and you will limit their offense.

They beat Temple, Texas State, VMI, San Jose St., Georgia Southern, South Alabama, Army and then SDSU in a bowl.

Now, lets really look at who they beat... SDSU and Temple were literally their hardest games and they were 7-5 and 6-6 respectively.

My honest assessment is that if they were in the AAC last year they "may" have hit 5 wins assuming they kept their OOC the same.

Dont get me wrong. They are a good team but I dont see them as a team to be feared. Their record just doesnt support it.

My team is going to be breaking in some new faces on defense...so Navy's triple option offense would scare me plenty, if our offense weren't good enough to hold the ball if necessary to limit Navy offensive possessions.

(08-01-2015 09:48 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 09:29 AM)Bleeds_Purple Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 09:22 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Which Pirates have been injured in your four Navy games? And do you have video? Because the Notre Dame example is guys getting rolled up on by their own players without a Navy player onscreen, but it becomes an article of faith that it was Navy cut blocks.

I was injured after two of our Navy games along with many other fans. My ass hurt.

I would ask why, but... nah.

(08-02-2015 09:16 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I like navy. I really do but I dont understand all the fear and accolades.

They are a run team. They can't pass worth a crap. All you have to do is to load the box and you will limit their offense.

They beat Temple, Texas State, VMI, San Jose St., Georgia Southern, South Alabama, Army and then SDSU in a bowl.

Now, lets really look at who they beat... SDSU and Temple were literally their hardest games and they were 7-5 and 6-6 respectively.

My honest assessment is that if they were in the AAC last year they "may" have hit 5 wins assuming they kept their OOC the same.

Dont get me wrong. They are a good team but I dont see them as a team to be feared. Their record just doesnt support it.

It's not as simple as load the box. Their offense is one that teams don't see much so hard to prepare for. In order to stop it you need athletic guys that are good tacklers and also play as a team. That's difficult to find in most teams since many DBs specially those used to playing the spread are not used to tackling snd being blocked by the WRs.
You load the box and someone misses a tackle or goes out of alignment and Navy has an 80 yd TD run

(08-03-2015 07:51 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:16 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I like navy. I really do but I dont understand all the fear and accolades.

They are a run team. They can't pass worth a crap. All you have to do is to load the box and you will limit their offense.

They beat Temple, Texas State, VMI, San Jose St., Georgia Southern, South Alabama, Army and then SDSU in a bowl.

Now, lets really look at who they beat... SDSU and Temple were literally their hardest games and they were 7-5 and 6-6 respectively.

My honest assessment is that if they were in the AAC last year they "may" have hit 5 wins assuming they kept their OOC the same.

Dont get me wrong. They are a good team but I dont see them as a team to be feared. Their record just doesnt support it.

It's not as simple as load the box. Their offense is one that teams don't see much so hard to prepare for. In order to stop it you need athletic guys that are good tacklers and also play as a team. That's difficult to find in most teams since many DBs specially those used to playing the spread are not used to tackling snd being blocked by the WRs.
You load the box and someone misses a tackle or goes out of alignment and Navy has an 80 yd TD run

An odd front on defense is most effective in stifling the veer/flexbone. You need mobile, athletic and technically sound defensive lineman who can free up the linebackers & stop the dive while they pursue laterally. The outside linebackers have to commit to pounding the QB on every single play. The corners will find themselves on an island as the play side corner will have to play an aggressive run support (against X's & Z's that are primarily blockers), while the backside corner will have to play man. The free safety will have to be very disciplined in his commitment to run support. Most big passing plays come from the slot/wing back or tight end blowing past the safety getting caught cheating up on run support.
In the 70's & 80's whole defenses were built to specifically defeat this scheme. Today most corners are "cover" guys. Most defensive fronts are even and most defensive lineman are completely ill-prepared in a week's preparation to deal with the blocking schemes & techniques of the o-line.
Tulane plays G Tech, Navy & Army this year, might as well throw in Ga Southern while we're at it.

(08-02-2015 09:16 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I like navy. I really do but I dont understand all the fear and accolades.

I expect Navy to be one of the better teams in the AAC. Not "fear" - respect. I have seen them give Notre Dame fits several times.

Quote:Now, lets really look at who they beat... SDSU and Temple were literally their hardest games and they were 7-5 and 6-6 respectively.

Memphis had the best team last year that we have had in at least 10 years, but we barely escaped the Temple game with a late field goal.

(08-01-2015 09:12 AM)Pirateoracle Wrote:  Any AAC team that plays Navy better because they are capable of beating any team in this conference on any given day... Btw you better have some back up Dlinemen for the injured from uncalled chop blocks....

Yet somehow Navy can run the same offense & blocking techniques in practice & scrimmages for weeks on end before the first game & still manage to have a defense for that first game or the last one?

Also, what do you think your RB's will do when they try to block a blitzing LB on a pass play? Do you really think they'll be blocking that guy up high like the OL?

Spoiler alert: every team uses cut blocking, some just more than others.

(08-03-2015 10:05 AM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 09:12 AM)Pirateoracle Wrote:  Any AAC team that plays Navy better because they are capable of beating any team in this conference on any given day... Btw you better have some back up Dlinemen for the injured from uncalled chop blocks....

Yet somehow Navy can run the same offense & blocking techniques in practice & scrimmages for weeks on end before the first game & still manage to have a defense for that first game or the last one?

Also, what do you think your RB's will do when they try to block a blitzing LB on a pass play? Do you really think they'll be blocking that guy up high like the OL?

Spoiler alert: every team uses cut blocking, some just more than others.

I don't think that there is intention to harm on the part of Navy & Army (Georgia Tech gets nasty). I think defensive lineman & linebackers get caught up in the lateral flow and get taken out. The last time any of these defenses had to deal with this scheme was probably back in high school where the level of execution was very slow & basic.

(08-01-2015 11:57 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Complaining about cut blocking would be similar to the British whining about our riflemen in the Revolution. The British put on a stiff upper lip and figured out a strategy to stop them. They would absorb one firing and rush in with bayonets. A rifle, at the time, took 3 times as long as a musket to reload and since the rifle has no slot for a bayonet, the riflemen were defenseless ducks after a discharge. The Battle of Long Island serves as a great example of that strategy. Thus going forward, our riflemen were used primarily in forest fighting (Saratoga) and the frontier theaters.

Find a way to halt cut blocking. Other teams have.

Very difficult to stop because you have to worry about the run option

(08-02-2015 12:04 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 11:57 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Complaining about cut blocking would be similar to the British whining about our riflemen in the Revolution. The British put on a stiff upper lip and figured out a strategy to stop them. They would absorb one firing and rush in with bayonets. A rifle, at the time, took 3 times as long as a musket to reload and since the rifle has no slot for a bayonet, the riflemen were defenseless ducks after a discharge. The Battle of Long Island serves as a great example of that strategy. Thus going forward, our riflemen were used primarily in forest fighting (Saratoga) and the frontier theaters.

Find a way to halt cut blocking. Other teams have.

Not sure you should be citing the strategy of the losing side of a war as a success.

You are confusing a particular tactic to counteract America's game changer against the background of a whole war. Americans truly believed and especially after Bunker Hill that the rifle was the great equalizer for British discipline and steel on the open battleground.

The British were superior to us in line-to-line engagements during the war. We won because of maximizing our opportunities and a timely blockade. The Redcoats stopped the deployment of riflemen on the traditional European-like battleground, our hopeful answer to bayonets.

You need big strong quick defensive ends to have success, and they can never lose containment.

(08-11-2015 05:13 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  You need big strong quick defensive ends to have success, and they can never lose containment.

An odd front of 3 technically proficient DT/NG defeat the option. An even front (2 DT's), places LB's in jeopardy as two DT's cannot prevent the LB's from getting caught in the wash of crab blocking o-lineman. The play side OLB takes out the QB on every play. The play side corner & scraping LB's take care of containment.

Blah blah blah

Too much noise in this thread.


Let me pull clarity back into this:

-You play Navy, you will have one or more injured Dlinemen before the game is over.

Thats its.

(08-13-2015 05:54 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Let me pull clarity back into this:

-You play Navy, you will have one or more injured Dlinemen before the game is over.

Thats its.

And yet, when Army, Navy and Air Force play each other, that doesn't happen.

You'd think we roll out there with machetes or something....

(08-01-2015 12:36 PM)ultraviolet Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 09:54 AM)Pirateoracle Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 09:22 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Which Pirates have been injured in your four Navy games? And do you have video? Because the Notre Dame example is guys getting rolled up on by their own players without a Navy player onscreen, but it becomes an article of faith that it was Navy cut blocks.

Brandon Setzer one year a 6'6" 300 plus guy that had huge upside. 2012 Justin Dixon and Montese Overton got injured who in now on the Lombardi watch list. Btw Overton is number 2 on CFB freak list. Definetly going to the league. 6'3" 225# and 4.31 forty. These guys have a lot to lose to a " cut " block. You have the rep you have... Just google it...FSU lost 3 Dline after Citadel...Cut blocking causes injuries.. Well documented whether legal or not. Like leading with the helmet used to be legal it caused a lot of damage before rule change. Z

Brandon Setzer never got touched in that play while engaged high. The Navy player appeared to, but I watched slomo replay and it was an optical illusion. He just hurt his knee in a fluke manner. Navy kicks people's ass fair and square mostly, but under Paul Johnson they did have a knack for grabbing feet and ankles while they are on the ground cut blocking, then letting go before the ref sees it. i haven't noticed it with Navy, but still see it at Ga Tech.

In 2012, neither Dixon nor Overton played against Navy! Dixon hurt against SC, Overton against Memphis.

http://www.ecupirates.com/sports/m-footb...06206.html
http://www.ecupirates.com/sports/m-footb...59672.html
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsp...genpos=OLB

(08-13-2015 05:54 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Blah blah blah

Too much noise in this thread.


Let me pull clarity back into this:

-You play Navy, you will have one or more injured Dlinemen before the game is over.

Thats its.

Can you help me out here, with thirteen or more names from last year? I just re-read the ESPN recaps of all thirteen of our games, and there was no mention of opponents' front seven injuries. I know that there may be more than zero -- ESPN story didn't mention Notre Dame's Joe Schmidt, who got hurt but not by any cut blocking if you watch the video.

(08-13-2015 05:54 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Too much noise in this thread.

Let me pull clarity back into this:

-You play Navy, you will have one or more injured Dlinemen before the game is over.

Thats its.

How does Navy (or Army or Georgia Tech or Air Force) even field a DL after a month of practices & scrimmages?

(08-13-2015 10:40 AM)NavyHusker Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 05:54 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Too much noise in this thread.

Let me pull clarity back into this:

-You play Navy, you will have one or more injured Dlinemen before the game is over.

Thats its.

How does Navy (or Army or Georgia Tech or Air Force) even field a DL after a month of practices & scrimmages?

The biggest threat of the flex bone is its novelty. It flies in the face of the tried & true tactics used in defending the spread/pro offenses. Corner backs need to transform from cover guys to a heavy run support where you have to be willing to completely sacrifice your physical well being. Two DT's & a NG have the task of stopping the dive, freeing up LB's & staying on their feet to support the inside out run pursuit.
In the 70's & early 80's whole defenses were built to defend the bone/veer scheme until Johnny Majors/Jackie Sherrill/Howard Shnellenberger started bit*h slapping people with the Pro.
The more familiar teams get with playing Navy the easier it will become to install an effective scheme to defend.

chillax Navy dudes