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^ Wow, nobody had thought of that-posted it before...

but, seriously, who died by lightning?

Brian Kelly doesn't even have the evil powers to kill people with lightning (yet). He has mastered wind...beware!

(not really funny, as a kid did die).

(07-09-2015 06:53 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:30 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  You've got a guy still coaching for letting a kid get killed by lighting. Beckman pales in comparison.

How does one die by "lighting"?

And what coach are you referencing?

I just assumed he meant Kelly at Notre Dame. Ironically enough, I remember reading an article where Jim Tressel told his kids to get down off of the towers during that same windstorm, possibly saving lives. Shortly there after, he gets fired over minor infractions, meanwhile Kelly keeps his gig. Justice is strange.

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I've always hated these types of games for us... Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, etc. you get nothing out of it by beating below average B1G schools. Just by saying "we beat a B1G school". Yippee. And if we lose, it sucks (even worse if we get pounded). I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

I disagree. The shock waves of a major upset would be fantastic, of course, but with the exception of cashing a big check and - maybe - allowing some fans to make the road trip to say they've "checked off" the Horseshoe, nothing positive is going to come out of playing at Ohio State (the same is true for NIU playing them).

I'll play Michigan or Michigan State any year (preferably not both in the same year like back in 2009, though), but we've never beaten Michigan, and the last time we beat MSU players were wearing leather helmets.

I mostly disagree with the premise that knocking off a lesser B1G team means little. Any win over a B1G school (and, for that matter, any P5 school at this point) is good. A pretty strong argument could be made that Cubit wouldn't have kept his job for eight years had he not knocked off Iowa and Illinois in his first few years at the helm.

I much prefer the 2016 nonconference schedule (at Illinois, at NW, GSU at home) to this year's (MSU, at GSU, at OSU). This year, we'll head into conference play most likely 2-2 at best, and very possibly 1-3. Could the same happen in 2016? It's possible, but assuming our program continues to progress, there's not a nonconference game on the 2016 schedule we can't win.

Quote:I mostly disagree with the premise that knocking off a lesser B1G team means little. Any win over a B1G school (and, for that matter, any P5 school at this point) is good. A pretty strong argument could be made that Cubit wouldn't have kept his job for eight years had he not knocked off Iowa and Illinois in his first few years at the helm

I agree. There IS a "Yippee" to that. It lets one know this G5 is for real. If there is no Yippee to it, then we should treat it like there was no upset winning at their place and that we should have won. Very few of the average-to-below average P5s are going to be home games in our house against Kansas on a 2-10 year. They're going to be more like 4-8 to 6-6 NW/Illinois/BC at their place. No reason to get wild-drunk-crazy and order hookers from the Yellow Pages, but enough to say "Yippee!" pretty loud. :)

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

But in basketball you don't want the risk and would prefer to play Oakland, Valpo and the like?

Why the divergence?

(07-19-2015 09:08 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

But in basketball you don't want the risk and would prefer to play Oakland, Valpo and the like?

Why the divergence?

Fleck-flavored Kool-Aid.

(07-19-2015 09:08 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

But in basketball you don't want the risk and would prefer to play Oakland, Valpo and the like?

Why the divergence?

Two completely different post-season environments.

In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament. For a mid-major like us that usually means winning our conference tournament. Playing other similar (strong) mid-majors prepares us well for MAC play.

(07-19-2015 10:35 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 09:08 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

But in basketball you don't want the risk and would prefer to play Oakland, Valpo and the like?

Why the divergence?

Two completely different post-season environments.

In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament. For a mid-major like us that usually means winning our conference tournament. Playing other similar (strong) mid-majors prepares us well for MAC play.

"In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament."

That pretty much sums it up. Just show up but don't expect to win.

For any program it should be to win it all or as much as one can (ethically).

The brass ring is an NCAA championship. No one in their right mind would trade a chance to win one in exchange for an assured conference championship.

NCAA hoops or football is the same. Win. Win big shocking the world and conference takes care of itself and is an after thought.

WMU football wins anyone of the major bowls but not the championship one and all Bronco fans tout "We won the Orange Bowl or Rose Bowl or ....". Who leads with "We won the MAC West and MACC!"?

Playing or scheduling up doesn't harm anyone's regular season or conference tournament chances. You simply are challenged to beat better competition. In that process you don't get worse. If a competitor you only get better.

(07-19-2015 01:49 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  "In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament."

That pretty much sums it up. Just show up but don't expect to win.

That's not what I meant...

(07-19-2015 03:34 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 01:49 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  "In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament."

That pretty much sums it up. Just show up but don't expect to win.

That's not what I meant...

Yeah, that one flew right over his head.

(07-19-2015 03:34 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 01:49 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  "In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament."

That pretty much sums it up. Just show up but don't expect to win.

That's not what I meant...

I know. Too easy to have fun with you.

But considering the facts on the ground, WMU not advancing having run the gauntlet of Mid-Major powers you suggest leaves them with what? Bumpkus.

So how is shocking the world by getting to a major bowl game or making a run in the NCAA tournament is less attractive to you than getting ready for the MAC?

(07-19-2015 04:01 PM)ChuckNorris Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 03:34 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 01:49 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  "In college basketball it's simply about getting into the tournament."

That pretty much sums it up. Just show up but don't expect to win.

That's not what I meant...

Yeah, that one flew right over his head.

Still butt hurt are you Chuck?

Weigh in with your insight.

Playing weaker talent prepares you to shock the world? Splain.

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I've always hated these types of games for us... Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, etc. you get nothing out of it by beating below average B1G schools. Just by saying "we beat a B1G school". Yippee. And if we lose, it sucks (even worse if we get pounded). I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

I have to disagree as well. After our Iowa, Illinois, Virginia, etc., wins, we got some positive press out of it. Even in subsequent seasons, articles would mention those wins as high points. Beating any P5 team generates good vibes.

Other than the obvious financial boon, the decision to add OSU this season was questionable at best, and Fleck even hinted at that in a recent interview. Especially in a year when we're playing the top MAC daddies (Toledo, NIU) on the road.

I think playing one Top 10 team is fine. But two in one season?

Next year seems more manageable: @ Northwestern, @ Illinois, vs. Ga Southern, vs. FCS scrub.

(07-19-2015 09:11 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 07:37 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I've always hated these types of games for us... Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, etc. you get nothing out of it by beating below average B1G schools. Just by saying "we beat a B1G school". Yippee. And if we lose, it sucks (even worse if we get pounded). I'd rather take my lumps against an OSU, MSU, Penn St., etc. and attempt to raise some eyebrows and generate shock waves around the country. That's just me.

Next year seems more manageable: @ Northwestern, @ Illinois, vs. Ga Southern, vs. FCS scrub.

And we are going to have a badass team next year too.

Quote:WMU football wins anyone of the major bowls but not the championship one and all Bronco fans tout "We won the Orange Bowl or Rose Bowl or ....". Who leads with "We won the MAC West and MACC!"?

Yeah, how dare someone say "We made it to the Elite Eight"?! Pshaw! I don't see a NCAA Championship ring on ya! For Duke, that may not be something to brag about, but nothing to be ashamed of at all either. To about 97% of the teams in the nation, that is something to brag about.

To mid-majors, winning their conference is. So is to a P5 and upper mid-majors.

But to mid-majors with no tournament runs or some once-in-20-years season, winning a game in the tourney is a Big Deal. A "prize". A big goal achieved. Heck, even to Northwestern. :)

There's many successes, in different directions. Would you rather win a tourney game, or win your conference but lose one? Does everything mean nothing unless you win the national championship? If WMU gave OSU it's only loss of the season, and MSU it's only 1 of 2 losses (+OSU), gave GA-Southern it's only loss of the season, NIU it's only loss of the season, and Toledo it's only 1 of 2 losses of the season (+NIU), and gave BGSU 2 of it's only 3 losses of the season (+Toledo) who went undefeated in it's 4 tough OOC schedule .... and we went to the Football 4-team playoff, but lost in that first game -- would we say "Phhhhht. Who cares about a MACC? Or some 'big bowl'? We just got our azzes kicked in a bowl! We still never won a bowl!! Where's that Fire Fleck thread?!"

Hell no! :) We'd be happy as clams. Winning the MAC West is a big step. And a step higher is the whole MAC. And other steps are beating low-end P5 teams. And mid-range P5 teams. And higher-end P5 teams. And a bowl game.

(07-19-2015 11:08 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:WMU football wins anyone of the major bowls but not the championship one and all Bronco fans tout "We won the Orange Bowl or Rose Bowl or ....". Who leads with "We won the MAC West and MACC!"?

Yeah, how dare someone say "We made it to the Elite Eight"?! Pshaw! I don't see a NCAA Championship ring on ya! For Duke, that may not be something to brag about, but nothing to be ashamed of at all either. To about 97% of the teams in the nation, that is something to brag about.

To mid-majors, winning their conference is. So is to a P5 and upper mid-majors.

But to mid-majors with no tournament runs or some once-in-20-years season, winning a game in the tourney is a Big Deal. A "prize". A big goal achieved. Heck, even to Northwestern. :)

There's many successes, in different directions. Would you rather win a tourney game, or win your conference but lose one? Does everything mean nothing unless you win the national championship? If WMU gave OSU it's only loss of the season, and MSU it's only 1 of 2 losses (+OSU), gave GA-Southern it's only loss of the season, NIU it's only loss of the season, and Toledo it's only 1 of 2 losses of the season (+NIU), and gave BGSU 2 of it's only 3 losses of the season (+Toledo) who went undefeated in it's 4 tough OOC schedule .... and we went to the Football 4-team playoff, but lost in that first game -- would we say "Phhhhht. Who cares about a MACC? Or some 'big bowl'? We just got our azzes kicked in a bowl! We still never won a bowl!! Where's that Fire Fleck thread?!"

Hell no! :) We'd be happy as clams. Winning the MAC West is a big step. And a step higher is the whole MAC. And other steps are beating low-end P5 teams. And mid-range P5 teams. And higher-end P5 teams. And a bowl game.

My point exactly.

Current line is 3.5 wins for the Illini.

Oh, c'mon now, kids! Surely you know that the real reason for the demise of the Illinois football program was the dismissal of that famous Illini mascot, Chief Illiniwek. Seems that he was deemed no longer politically correct. Always one of my very favorite college football traditions. Well, karma bites. Long live Chief Illiniwek, even if only on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRwHmH_Gaqg