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Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the last 5 yr
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-20-2015 11:00 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  The biggest difference between me and all the other Rice fans is that I can see that no matter how well the athletics programs do, it will never be enough for a P5 invitation. That boat has sailed. The fanbase is just simply too small and there isn't nearly enough money flowing into athletics from donors. I could go on and on listing the barriers and shortcomings. We're all too familiar with them. I've been told I'm not a real fan for acknowledging them, but I may just be too much of a realist. Being that Rice will never be a P5 member, the best thing it can do is align itself with as many public schools in the immediate region as it possibly can, no matter how it's done.

Sorry, but you are arguing against a bit of a straw man here. I’ll give you that there are some Parliament posters who seem to think a P5 invitation is just around the corner if only we’d try or that if it doesn’t come the world would end. However, it’s not a binary choice between that viewpoint and your vision of a 20 team merger with the Sunbelt. I think the majority of Rice fans are somewhere along the spectrum between those two points.

I tend to agree with Owl[numbers] that what we should be focusing on is staying Rice in baseball, becoming Gonzaga in basketball, becoming Boise in football, and growing our attendance/fan base. (I think that probably applies to every G5.) If there is any chance of a P5 invite, however small, we need to do those things. But if we do those things and there is no P5 invite, then I’ll still be one happy Rice fan, and we will be in good shape if/when another shakeup occurs. Again, I think most of this applies to every G5 and would still apply to Rice if we were in the AAC or MWC.

Regarding the AAC and our former conference mates – Tulane is a fellow AAU school and we have nearly a century of history with SMU. Tulsa I’m indifferent to. Not a knock on Tulsa, just that neither of those things apply. UH as a rivalry actually works well OOC, I think. My bigger concern with conference affiliation is 1) that the current perceived pecking order will get set in stone, and 2) if a split happens it will not be P5/G5 but P5 + 15-20 G5 schools.

Regarding (1): The general perception is AAC/MWC >CUSA>MAC>Sunbelt. I’m talking about perception. We can make arguments that we belong in the top group of three, but the MAC can make arguments they belong with us. All of us in CUSA need to hope that CUSA can establish itself in perception as one of the top 3 G5 conferences. I think that’s possible. I also think it’s possible that we get stuck as one of the “other three”. That’s a risk for all of us, and I think it is more likely if we expand with more Sunbelt teams, even if there are arguments in their favor. I just don’t think expansion helps us right now.

Regarding (2): I don’t think a full P5 split is likely. They need us for OOC and there are too many state flagships or near-flagships outside the P5 for it to be politically feasible. But I can see a P5+2 split happening. And currently CUSA would not be one of the two.

So, let’s not expand, and each of us focus on improving our own programs.
06-22-2015 09:31 AM
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Afflicted Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the last 5 yr
I'm glad Rice is finally making investments into athletics, and no matter where we end up, those investments are only going to make us a more meaningful player in FBS. And my point about merging is only that it probably needs to happen with some other conference at some point, preferably with a conference that shares our geography. As you know, I don't believe there's any scenario out there that puts Rice in a P5. It sucks, but it's true. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt that I am on this one. That being the case, I just want us to be a major player from wherever we are and with universities that can keep our finances healthy.
06-22-2015 11:18 AM
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SVHerd Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the last 5 yr
If anything Rice has the most potential due to their private school status, the money they have, etc. Marshall likely has the least due to the same reasons - small public school in WV, not many affluent alums and a state that doesn't value the school, etc.
That said, I am proud that we do well with the resources we have and the for the very loyal fan base we have.
06-22-2015 12:11 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-21-2015 11:33 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(06-21-2015 09:17 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(06-21-2015 03:34 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I still can't get used to not seeing USM on ECUs schedule. That was the one constant for my entire lifetime as a fan. I hope USM gets back to being the program I remember them being. They were the standard that all other CUSA programs measured themselves against for pretty much the entire life of the league.

Hindsight vision is always 20-20, but USM should have never run off Jeff Bower. His teams played a very tough and physical brand of football.

Indeed they did. And Bower was COMMITTED to USM, which meant you never had to worry about him leaving Hattiesburg. And of course, that means USM never had to worry about coaching turnover and the "down years" that typically result from the transition.

Firing Bower will go down in history as one of the greatest mistakes USM's leadership ever made.

Firing Bower was only dumb because we didn't keep Fedora long enough to make a real difference. Alternatively, we could have promoted one of his assistants, or just hired someone who wasn't an incompetent old hillbilly.

Bower never quite figured out the new teams that were coming into CUSA: Rice, TCU, etc. His last team was painfully mediocre, and all indications were that the game had passed him by, and he was unwilling to bring in someone with fresh ideas. I'd be very curious to see how Jeff would do somewhere else. I'm not saying he'd crash and burn, just that he wasn't well-suited to the challenges faced by USM in 2008.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2015 12:38 PM by AndreWhere.)
06-22-2015 12:37 PM
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DrBox Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-22-2015 09:31 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  My bigger concern with conference affiliation is 1) that the current perceived pecking order will get set in stone, and 2) if a split happens it will not be P5/G5 but P5 + 15-20 G5 schools.

You call that a concern; to me, it's a hope. P5 will go beyond 64 (they'll need the TV inventory) and the number of schools that are strong universities, high research and play good football is in short supply. We both have a great chance. This small school and small fan base stuff, I've seen these teams that have "great traveling fans" play in front of empty home stadiums when their teams suck. I've seen small schools play in front of a lot of fans when playing known competition. AAU is a critical badge - the presidents are running universities.
And if it doesn't happen, well the G5 will reform/re-align, but it will never be some C-USA/Sunbelt merger, except for the schools who might want that. There will be enough that don't. I don't think any C-USA west schools want that right now.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2015 07:49 PM by DrBox.)
06-22-2015 07:48 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-22-2015 07:48 PM)DrBox Wrote:  
(06-22-2015 09:31 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  My bigger concern with conference affiliation is 1) that the current perceived pecking order will get set in stone, and 2) if a split happens it will not be P5/G5 but P5 + 15-20 G5 schools.

You call that a concern; to me, it's a hope. P5 will go beyond 64 (they'll need the TV inventory) and the number of schools that are strong universities, high research and play good football is in short supply. We both have a great chance. This small school and small fan base stuff, I've seen these teams that have "great traveling fans" play in front of empty home stadiums when their teams suck. I've seen small schools play in front of a lot of fans when playing known competition. AAU is a critical badge - the presidents are running universities.
And if it doesn't happen, well the G5 will reform/re-align, but it will never be some C-USA/Sunbelt merger, except for the schools who might want that. There will be enough that don't. I don't think any C-USA west schools want that right now.

I agree, actually. My concern is that if it happened right now it would be P5 plus MWC/AAC and Army and BYU, and the rest of us SOL. But mid to long term I think the best case scenario from a Rice or [insert your school here] perspective is an 80-90 team FBS which includes Rice or [insert your school here].
06-23-2015 07:49 AM
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Afflicted Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
I just don't see why the P5 would decide to share money with more members. They destroyed the Big East and old MWC because they didn't want to share. Why would they have a change of heart?
06-23-2015 07:58 AM
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CajunFanatico Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-23-2015 07:49 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(06-22-2015 07:48 PM)DrBox Wrote:  
(06-22-2015 09:31 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  My bigger concern with conference affiliation is 1) that the current perceived pecking order will get set in stone, and 2) if a split happens it will not be P5/G5 but P5 + 15-20 G5 schools.

You call that a concern; to me, it's a hope. P5 will go beyond 64 (they'll need the TV inventory) and the number of schools that are strong universities, high research and play good football is in short supply. We both have a great chance. This small school and small fan base stuff, I've seen these teams that have "great traveling fans" play in front of empty home stadiums when their teams suck. I've seen small schools play in front of a lot of fans when playing known competition. AAU is a critical badge - the presidents are running universities.
And if it doesn't happen, well the G5 will reform/re-align, but it will never be some C-USA/Sunbelt merger, except for the schools who might want that. There will be enough that don't. I don't think any C-USA west schools want that right now.

I agree, actually. My concern is that if it happened right now it would be P5 plus MWC/AAC and Army and BYU, and the rest of us SOL. But mid to long term I think the best case scenario from a Rice or [insert your school here] perspective is an 80-90 team FBS which includes Rice or [insert your school here].

Bingo. You guys (the two posts above) have hit the nail on the head IMHO. It's why I tell fellow Cajun fans to stop worrying about conference affiliation. If our administration continues to do what it's been doing....investing in facilities, coaching staffs, and winning across the board in athletics......everything else will eventually fall into place.
06-23-2015 08:03 AM
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Afflicted Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the last 5 yr
Pray very, very hard. Now do it again.
06-23-2015 11:50 AM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-23-2015 07:58 AM)Afflicted Wrote:  I just don't see why the P5 would decide to share money with more members. They destroyed the Big East and old MWC because they didn't want to share. Why would they have a change of heart?

Not talking about "sharing money" - talking about the much threatened P5 breakaway. There's a school of thought (and no, not just on these message boards) that it's a somewhat hollow threat for numerous reasons, but that a contraction of FBS might happen either by attrition or the breakaway of a larger group. Too many state flagships or near-flagships plus the Military Academies and BYU in the G5 to make it politically feasible to leave them behind. But take AAC and MWC plus Army and who's left that has a Senator or two in their corner?

Now if FBS shrinks to 100 or fewer by attrition, I don't think any of this happens and at least those of us left will be dividing our table scraps among fewer mouths.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2015 12:48 PM by JustAnotherAustinOwl.)
06-23-2015 12:27 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Interesting article on the winners & losers from conference realignment the la...
(06-22-2015 12:11 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Marshall likely has the least due to the same reasons - small public school in WV, not many affluent alums and a state that doesn't value the school, etc. That said, I am proud that we do well with the resources we have and the for the very loyal fan base we have.

All valid points against us. The things we do have going for us is the Marshall brand (some scoff at that but people around the country know Marshall through the movie, Moss & Pennington being Heisman finalists, conference titles etc.).
TV ratings (we don't carry a large market, but Hamrick was told during C-USA meetings from TV people that the numbers are still good for Marshall games because people from all over tune in).
Fan base- even during losing seasons we'll average mid 20's per game.
Plus all the new programs that have been added like the pharmacy school, new buildings on campus like the one for engineering etc.

I don't know where exactly we would plan to go, but for the negatives against us there are another set of positives.
06-23-2015 12:44 PM
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